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Old 03-18-2015, 07:42 AM
 
376 posts, read 248,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
Why do we have to assume the notion that a stay at home mother is some gold digging woman who is living the high life while the husband works? It is often a mutually agreed to financial decision, based on the households exact income compared to the exorbitant cost of daycare. Particularly for households with more than one child in daycare.
This is not what I've experienced. Most of what I've seen is that the couple intends for her to stay home for a few years, until preschool age and then she unilaterally decides that she doesn't want to work any more, or goes on and on for years "not being able to find a job."

And usually in this situation the mother has a college degree and student loan debt, as well.

 
Old 03-18-2015, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Northville, MI
11,882 posts, read 11,108,086 times
Reputation: 6316
I am under pressure from parents to get married off by 25. At this point in life, I would much rather stay single and take time to make the right choices. Is there anything wrong with that ?
 
Old 03-18-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: NY
9,070 posts, read 14,962,185 times
Reputation: 11498
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler View Post
This is not what I've experienced. Most of what I've seen is that the couple intends for her to stay home for a few years, until preschool age and then she unilaterally decides that she doesn't want to work any more, or goes on and on for years "not being able to find a job."

And usually in this situation the mother has a college degree and student loan debt, as well.
I do not doubt it happens, but why dismiss the reasoning behind if it is a legitimate reason. Not being able to find a job could be a legitimate issue for someone who has been out of the workforce. Especially if their skills are no longer current.

I am sure the opposite happens too. The SAHM goes back to work.

Although I would say preschool, depending on how the local school system is arranged, may not be the time to expect a SAHM to go back to work. Here, preschool is 2.5 hours a day, and working parents end up having to pay for all day daycare anyway.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: NY
9,070 posts, read 14,962,185 times
Reputation: 11498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi from the Brunswicks View Post
I am under pressure from parents to get married off by 25. At this point in life, I would much rather stay single and take time to make the right choices. Is there anything wrong with that ?
Nothing wrong with not bowing to pressue and taking your time in making important life decisions.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,492 posts, read 2,310,873 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvira310 View Post
I thought that was sarcasm.

The MRA and MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) movement is full of contradictions.

And a lot of these guys are obsessed with women being chaste (virginal or at least non promiscuous) but at the same time are obsessed with men getting laid.

They seriously expect women to go back to June Cleaver era, give up her ambitions and education, and try to paint women as selfish if they won't.
I think you paint too many men with a broad brush here. For starters, MGTOW types seem to be your more "geeky" reserved type of guys. Yes, they fear promiscuous women likely because they themselves either didn't live that lifestyle or didn't really have the ability to live it like many others (ie: Enough money to go away to a large college). You then had guys who are just late to the game, but unfortunately they are now out of college, and the amount of girls willing to just hook-up has drastically diminished.

I think this relates to the June Cleaver era in a big way. During that time, women had to rely on men for the income for the home. It seems that in that ear, more often than not, it was the husband who was having affairs, not necessarily the wife. Then you had the sexual and educational revolution, which wanted to make men and women equal. What is happening now is that there are a lot of single guys who lived a very limited, short maybe a bit promiscuous lifestyle, or none at all, and they are fearful that if they marry a moderate to very promiscuous party girl, there is a higher likelihood she will have an affair. Makes sense as things in which people take pleasure in usually can have a lasting impact on them. If we claim that porn can be a sexual addition to young men, and even young women, then it isn't much of a jump to say that a moderate to high casual sex lifestyle in some form can cause an addition in men and women alike.

I think one thing to point out is that it seems that a decent amount of promiscuity in young people has to do with intoxication. If people didn't drink so much or do drugs, you would likely see a reduction of some sort with the hook-up culture. Some of the stories I know and heard almost all have to do with intoxication, and I would bet that 95% of the people wouldn't even have done those things had they not been in that state of mind.

If this wasn't an issue, then I wouldn't have read about three or four articles in less than a year from feminist female writers in their 30's complaining about this issue. One paid a doctor $9K to freeze her eggs, her doctor said that he sees women like her all the time. Guess who he blames, men who refuse to grow up. Then another writer spoke of how women have been told to never settle, but she warned young women they need to settle. She herself, and a friend, never found their soul mate, so they both had in vitro and are raising their respective kids on their own. Then I hear at work of a daughter of a co-worker, mid-30s, also looking into egg freezing.

With the acceptance of many sexual practices, young men, mostly the more shy "good guy" with limited intimate relationship experience is more likely just going to take a pass on women. Some might just become serial monogamist daters, but those who fear women with a promiscuous past are just going to dump them and move on. I know so many guys who are having kids in their very late 30s and into their late 40s, so I know lots of these guys may just date around, get their own numbers up, and then some will be able to deal with their issues if the desire for a family is strong enough. Of course the issue is usually these men will be looking for much younger women who are ready to settle down, passing up those women close to their age group who also want to settle down.

I posted this on another forum a few days ago, and many of them men, most in their 40s or 50s, complained about how their life long partners just up and divorced them. I have no reason why, but there wasn't much complaining on the divorce being unfair, just that divorce seems to be so easy today, that the spouse who wishes to remain married and still has feelings pretty much just has to deal with it. No forced counseling to try and save the marriage, just file and it is done. If walking away is just that easy, then why get married in the first place?

And lets be honest. This is only an issue I'm reading about now because more and more of the traditional productive class "do the right thing" type of men are choosing to push marriage off or not want it altogether. After seeing decades of mostly lower income young black men get women pregnant and not really be held accountable for it, is it shocking that young white men, or productive men in general, might decide that they can still have kids, but don't have to deal with a marriage commitment?
 
Old 03-18-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,492 posts, read 2,310,873 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Even if you just looked at men between 25 and 35 and discovered that 70% aren't married, why is that necessarily a bad thing?
It is a bad thing for a country that in recent decades benefited to some extent from early marriage. Don't worry about the lower income classes, as they have always been less likely to marry and even if they did, they still might need assistance. Look at it as the producers vs the consumers. It is the producers that you have to worry about. If two producers get married at a younger age, they combine their incomes, there is just one rent or monthly mortgage payment, not two. This alone can be significant over the course of say ten or fifteen years. That extra money could be spent in the economy, saved for retirement, or even taxed by government to provide additional services. Additionally, such productive couples have had children. Usually productive people didn't have kids out of wedlock, though that might be changing. So now, if the productive class of people are not going to be having kids, or as many kids, who is going to be paying for all the baby boomer stuff like social security, medicaid, etc.?

I guess the most important question really has to do with are people still finding life long partners and just not going through formal marriage, or are some people just throwing their hands up in the air for either a life of being alone, or maybe just constantly being in monogamous relationships that last six months to a year before moving onto the next.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,890 posts, read 5,197,284 times
Reputation: 14579
I do have to say though, even once the kids are in school it gets complicated in a different way. You still need to arrange childcare during all of the school breaks (spoiler alert: it's harder and more expensive than a toddler in daycare), arrange for before and/or after school care if your hours conflict with school hours, deal with the fallout of having to take time off of work for snow days, appointments, and caring for sick kids. That's all the more complicated if the other spouse works a nontraditional schedule. Often times, a part-time job is the only realistic situation (although I do know of a small handful of women who use it as an excuse to stay home permanently). For our situation, I'll be doing freelance work until the kids are old enough to fend for themselves for a few hours... which is fine because I get bored too easily working at the same place for too long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler View Post
This is not what I've experienced. Most of what I've seen is that the couple intends for her to stay home for a few years, until preschool age and then she unilaterally decides that she doesn't want to work any more, or goes on and on for years "not being able to find a job."

And usually in this situation the mother has a college degree and student loan debt, as well.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,890 posts, read 5,197,284 times
Reputation: 14579
Not at all! At 25 you should be having the time of your life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi from the Brunswicks View Post
I am under pressure from parents to get married off by 25. At this point in life, I would much rather stay single and take time to make the right choices. Is there anything wrong with that ?
 
Old 03-18-2015, 08:40 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,906 posts, read 36,199,574 times
Reputation: 42502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
I do have to say though, even once the kids are in school it gets complicated in a different way. You still need to arrange childcare during all of the school breaks (spoiler alert: it's harder and more expensive than a toddler in daycare), arrange for before and/or after school care if your hours conflict with school hours, deal with the fallout of having to take time off of work for snow days, appointments, and caring for sick kids. That's all the more complicated if the other spouse works a nontraditional schedule. Often times, a part-time job is the only realistic situation (although I do know of a small handful of women who use it as an excuse to stay home permanently). For our situation, I'll be doing freelance work until the kids are old enough to fend for themselves for a few hours... which is fine because I get bored too easily working at the same place for too long.
The #1 reason I have the job I do is because I have a flexible schedule and a supportive boss. I'm also on a comfortable track of annual raises, after having several years of tenure. I could look for a higher-paying job, maybe commute to Chicago for the big bucks, but it's much easier on our lifestyle for me to be readily available. Our son has a doctor's appointment today at 3:30. Friday is his parent-teacher conference; next month is his IEP. Last week all three kids had eye appointments, so I had to take a half-day for that. They already had a day or two off school this month, and tomorrow and Friday there's no school. Spring break is a couple weeks away.

My husband makes 50% more than I do. He also doesn't have to deal with any of this. I remember once when he told his boss that he was taking one of the kids to an appointment, his boss asked, "Can't your wife do that?"

Last edited by JustJulia; 03-18-2015 at 09:15 AM..
 
Old 03-18-2015, 08:51 AM
 
Location: NY
9,070 posts, read 14,962,185 times
Reputation: 11498
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
The #1 reason I have the job I do is because I have a flexible schedule and a supportive boss. I'm also on a comfortable track of annual raises, after having several years of tenure. I could look for a higher-paying job, maybe commute to Chicago for the big bucks, but it's much easier on our lifestyle for me to be readily available. Our son has a doctor's appointment today at 3:30. Friday is his parent-teacher conference; next month is his IEP. Last week all three kids had eye appointments, so I had to take a half-day for that. They already had a day or two off school this month, and tomorrow and Friday there's no school. Spring break is a couple weeks away.

My husband makes 50% more than I do. He also doesn't have to deal with any of this. I remember once when he told his boss that he was taking one of the kids to an appointment, his boss asked, "Can't your wife do that?"
Although people without children understand the basics of the demands, I do not think they truly appreciate how those demands can affect daily life for a couple, working or not.

My wife and I both work full time, and have a daughter who just turned 6 and is in kindergarten. My wife has worked full time our daughter's whole life (other than maternity, and a two month period between jobs two years ago after she got laid off). For years, half her net income went towards daycare. 50%, right off the top. However, for her, maintaining her career and trying to grow it is important to her and we could afford the child care around the schedules.

However, due to her limited leave and work situation, I end up being the one to handle most of the appointments. In the last three months, I have had to take chunks of leave for one well doctor visit, two sick visits, and a dentist appointment for our daughter. Luckily my job provides a lot of leave which is flexible.

Still, our days are fraught with scheduling taking her to before school programs, picking her up after, arranging holiday care, summer care, emergency care if she is sick and neither of us can afford to take off days at a time (she has been home all this week with an ear infection).

We both make good money, my more than her, and combined we are much better off than the national average. Still, if we had more than one child, doubling the obligations and time requirement, I think it would be extremely hard for both of us to remain working, much less cost effective.
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