Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually your right. Every black man I've dated that is similar to the OP, doesn't really date black women, but is attracted to women like Paula Patton, Kim K, etc. In fact my last bf, was a black guy that really only dated white girls, I was the first black girl he dated. I called him on it and he said that he is more partial to white women, but that most of the celebrity women he found attractive were black and then he listed women like: Paula Patton, Mariah carey when she was younger, Zoe Saldana, Rashida Jones, etc... I gave him the side eye because nearly all those women are biracial.
Basically he only liked lighter skinned european looking women, or white women, and wouldn't admit it. I showed him a picture of my sister, who is chocolate complexion and he said she was cute but I could tell it wasn't genuine. And I've noticed that there are a good amount of corporate educated attractive fit black men that tend to have that preference. I'm not saying all because I've met plenty that do not, but that it it does seem like the "nerdy" guys with a background similar to the OP's are like this. My last bf was a nerd at one point as well, but he never looked like one because he was really tall and muscular and very attractive physically. Ironically he was dark skinned, as was his mother, father and his brother. But I don't think he ever showed any interested in darker girls. I'm not even a "red bone" like Paula, but more of a reddish caramel complexion and now that I think upon it I wonder why he was attracted to me.
Another guy I briefly dated(very briefly) said he wouldn't marry a dark black women because his kids would come out black as midnight because of how dark he was. Then he said, but I would marry a woman that looked like Sanaa Lathan and then winked at me, because he said I was that tone. I just shook my head, and that was why that didn't last.
Now the OP hasn't clarified what type of women he dates. But the two guys I mentioned above are just TWO examples of men I dated who also had preference for Paula Patton and told me so then later admitted without realizing that they really just had preference for light women.
Funny thing is Paula doesn't even f*** with black men.
Actually your right. Every black man I've dated that is similar to the OP, doesn't really date black women, but is attracted to women like Paula Patton, Kim K, etc. In fact my last bf, was a black guy that really only dated white girls, I was the first black girl he dated. I called him on it and he said that he is more partial to white women, but that most of the celebrity women he found attractive were black and then he listed women like: Paula Patton, Mariah carey when she was younger, Zoe Saldana, Rashida Jones, etc... I gave him the side eye because nearly all those women are biracial.
Basically he only liked lighter skinned european looking women, or white women, and wouldn't admit it. I showed him a picture of my sister, who is chocolate complexion and he said she was cute but I could tell it wasn't genuine. And I've noticed that there are a good amount of corporate educated attractive fit black men that tend to have that preference. I'm not saying all because I've met plenty that do not, but that it it does seem like the "nerdy" guys with a background similar to the OP's are like this. My last bf was a nerd at one point as well, but he never looked like one because he was really tall and muscular and very attractive physically. Ironically he was dark skinned, as was his mother, father and his brother. But I don't think he ever showed any interested in darker girls. I'm not even a "red bone" like Paula, but more of a reddish caramel complexion and now that I think upon it I wonder why he was attracted to me.
Another guy I briefly dated(very briefly) said he wouldn't marry a dark black women because his kids would come out black as midnight because of how dark he was. Then he said, but I would marry a woman that looked like Sanaa Lathan and then winked at me, because he said I was that tone. I just shook my head, and that was why that didn't last.
Now the OP hasn't clarified what type of women he dates. But the two guys I mentioned above are just TWO examples of men I dated who also had preference for Paula Patton and told me so then later admitted without realizing that they really just had preference for light women.
Funny thing is Paula doesn't even f*** with black men.
Yes, being attracted to non-black women, partially black women, and light skinned black women is pretty typical.
Here is my 100% candid advice as a woman who hits most of your list and has many friends that suit your full list. I'm a black female nerd who has her life together. Here's the deal. We all liked nerds. We always did. Many of our fellow black male nerds weren't secure enough in their nerdom, I get it. Society tells you that you don't exist. It wasn't cool to be a nerd when you were in middle and high school and your hormones were raging. Luckily for me I figured out in college I didn't need to get distracted by dumb societal stereotypes. And I found my niche and people liked it. I became instantly way more attractive because there were more like-minded people around.
We can see through the "thug" facade. We want genuine people who aren't afraid to be themselves and our confident in their real identities. We can see through your current life goals to find the arm candy but not look for substance in your relationships. No one wants to be your trophy. But you are looking to prove that despite your nerd background you are "pulling in all sorts of women."
We write you off immediately, because even though you might fit our list on paper, it isn't worth it to help you sort through the self-esteem issues and the like.
Kill the facade, and you'll start attracting women interested in the genuine you. High class ladies want someone who is confident, has their stuff together, has a good head on their shoulder, has life goals and is mature enough to embrace their real selves. Hopefully you can start being your true self before it is too late and you become too jaded.
Good post.
I agree. I think another thing too that needs to be mentioned is that a lot of nerds that do have that chip don't necessarily have that "chip" about all girls, but specific ones--i.e. the ones that weren't NERDY were attractive and most likely had very little commonalities with them. I'm not saying this is true for the OP because I don't know him, but a lot of times nerds will really be upset that the "dimes" or chicks--that were wanted and pursued by the "jocks" and "street guys"--are not interested in them and that is why they change their facade to be more like those guys. They aren't trying to attract other nerdy girls. And I'm thinking the OP probably started hitting the gym, and putting this facade on because his goal was to pull women that were close to "dime" status.
I'll never forget when this guy contacted me when I used to have a facebook and went off on me for being a single mom, and saying that's what happens to "chicks" like me for chasing after the thugs. And it was strangest thing. I barely even remembered this dude. Supposedly I had rejected him in high school or something, and he was nerdy back then. But what was strange is that I never chased after any thugs. My son's father wasn't even a thug. But I almost got this feeling that he was angry with me because I rejected him and was happy to see that I was "damaged goods". lol.
The funny thing is he knows nothing at all about my situation at all, beyond the fact that I was a single mom. He assumed that my son's dad was a deadbeat thug and gawd know's what else without even knowing anything at all about me, beyond the pics and statuses I posted from to time to time.
But after getting to know and dating different groups of men, I've realized that there are some nerdy men who actually want the girls that other guys want, girls that aren't even nerdy(for instance I was not nerdy in high school or college--I was probably on the complete opposite spectrum in fact lol) and when they get rejected it really impacts the way they see themselves and women. Sometimes it motivates them to become the very man that the woman rejected them for, sometimes it motivates them to become the very man the woman rejected them for JUST to go back and reject all the women that once rejected him, and sometimes it causes them to be bitter and angry at women and constantly like they aren't enough for the type of women they really desire.
I don't know the OP so I'm not assuming any of that^^ about him, but I wonder if he dropped the facade and started dating women more similar to him, women that might even be "labeled" as nerdy if he would be satisfied or if he's really wanting to date a woman that isn't nerdy, a woman that looks like Paula Patton that will accept him for being nerdy?
Actually your right. Every black man I've dated that is similar to the OP, doesn't really date black women, but is attracted to women like Paula Patton, Kim K, etc. In fact my last bf, was a black guy that really only dated white girls, I was the first black girl he dated. I called him on it and he said that he is more partial to white women, but that most of the celebrity women he found attractive were black and then he listed women like: Paula Patton, Mariah carey when she was younger, Zoe Saldana, Rashida Jones, etc... I gave him the side eye because nearly all those women are biracial.
I have noticed similar patterns, but some more regional variations too. Some regions it is more true than others. As I joke with all my friends, when a black guy hits on me, the odds are 90% he is not from California.
Honestly, I am probably 50/50 on the nerd spectrum. I an nerdy, but I didn't have trouble fitting in as I am also bubbly and social. I was the person who got "most liked" or "knows everyone."
I think what has happened is twofold. #1 society messaging says that "black women" only want "thugs/hard/whatever" guys. #2 guys like the OP have started to believe the false narrative that black women are high drama blah blah blah and all sorts of negative stereotypes and do not keep their eyes open.
I had a great chat with one of my good male friends. A nerdy black guy who has embraced his nerdiness. He dates the rainbow. What he finds is that there is a subset of aggressive women, mostly white, who really pursue him. And as many posters here have alluded to, they love when a woman chases. So for him, if someone is chasing he is willing to go for it. He has had serious relationships with white women, and black women. But these hipster girls love black nerds so he is popular. His last serious relationship was with a fellow black nerd. He has a whole cadre available as he is friends with many and we all have friends.
There are other black men, with a profile of the OP, who have prioritized dating / forming long term relationships with black women. I meet these guys as well. And black women are becoming more open to looking outside. Half of my black female friends spend a lot of time dating non black men because many of them haven't bought into those silly stereotypes.
And let's be honest, I don't have time to help you unravel your crazy idea all black women are like the Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'll focus on the genuine people.
I have noticed similar patterns, but some more regional variations too. Some regions it is more true than others. As I joke with all my friends, when a black guy hits on me, the odds are 90% he is not from California.
Honestly, I am probably 50/50 on the nerd spectrum. I an nerdy, but I didn't have trouble fitting in as I am also bubbly and social. I was the person who got "most liked" or "knows everyone."
I think what has happened is twofold. #1 society messaging says that "black women" only want "thugs/hard/whatever" guys. #2 guys like the OP have started to believe the false narrative that black women are high drama blah blah blah and all sorts of negative stereotypes and do not keep their eyes open.
I had a great chat with one of my good male friends. A nerdy black guy who has embraced his nerdiness. He dates the rainbow. What he finds is that there is a subset of aggressive women, mostly white, who really pursue him. And as many posters here have alluded to, they love when a woman chases. So for him, if someone is chasing he is willing to go for it. He has had serious relationships with white women, and black women. But these hipster girls love black nerds so he is popular. His last serious relationship was with a fellow black nerd. He has a whole cadre available as he is friends with many and we all have friends.
There are other black men, with a profile of the OP, who have prioritized dating / forming long term relationships with black women. I meet these guys as well. And black women are becoming more open to looking outside. Half of my black female friends spend a lot of time dating non black men because many of them haven't bought into those silly stereotypes.
And let's be honest, I don't have time to help you unravel your crazy idea all black women are like the Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'll focus on the genuine people.
Interesting. I've noticed regional differences as well. I lived in the Northeast Coast for almost three years and this is where I've encountered the most men that think this way. Not all the men do, but the men that were raised in middle class or upper middle class environments tend to be this way the most. Prior to living in the Northeast Coast I lived down south and in the midwest and the men were different. Much different. The sad thing is that 95% of the men that tend to want to date me out here are the very men that we just talked about--the men that tend to prefer the Paula Pattons.
As for chasing, your right because a lot of my male friends have admitted something similar--that the white women tend to chase them. It isn't necessarily that black women don't chase them, but it doesn't happen as often. They date who chases them the most, and if it's white women then so be it.
It great to see the bolded. I don't want to spend too much time on race or IR dating because there really isn't anything wrong with it. However, I like when men seem to generally accept who they are and seek others with commonalities(whether it be a fellow nerd, or another black person, or whatever) as opposed to desiring people that are completely unlike them because they have not gotten to a place of self-acceptance.
I was never a nerd, but one of my sisters used to be a nerd and isn't anymore and the other still is a nerd. The inside joke in the family is that I'm like the black Jessica Simpson--so not nerdy at all. But I've had a lot of nerdy men that have pursued me, in HS, college, and even in the workplace. As I've gotten older I've evolved as a person and I've been more open to dating nerdier men. I find it almost a turn on, because I love verbal spars and the nerdy men I've dated are the only men that I can do this with.
I will admit that in hs a lot of the black girls that were attractive at least did tend to go after the bad boys, or pretty boys(i did the latter) and sort of overlooked the nerdy black guys. So I do understand why some black men develop the thoughts that they do... I think part of it is from experiences that they have, and I also think some of it was what their "fed" by media and society and the current depictions of black women and what we like.
In any case it seems like the OP is going the direction of MGTOW, so I wish him luck.
I have just discovered that, because I am a woman, they won't let me have a vasectomy. I blame the patriarchy.
...
Actually I was thinking just now, there is a reason that I don't consider myself a feminist. I don't like anyone urging me to take a side. Even if some, or most, of the ideologies of that side might make sense or have reasons...I hate the implication that I stand with a particular side. Hate it. Because it implies that I'm somehow against the other side, or have solidarity with All The Women. I don't. I stick with "humanist." If I hear about something unfair to men, I will never say, "Oh yeah?? Well we women have had it SO MUCH WORSE!" and try to diminish their point with defensive behavior.
Know what? I hate it when things are unfair for anybody. I can look at a situation, and say, ya know...that's effed up. That should stop. Without looking for some other group's woes to invalidate their hardship.
So you have feminists who advocate real harm to men in their frothing frenzy, like that crazy woman who shot Andy Warhol or whatever...some lesbian friend of mine in high school had me read a book, it was completely coo-coo.
And you have men who think that the proper way of things is for men to use women for their pleasure, that rape is not a thing, men have the right to take what they want, and a situation where a woman is stuck raising the offspring of an absentee father had better not ask for help of any kind from anyone. Marriage is a trap, child support is a trap, welfare is a trap. OK, so um...let's assume you know where babies come from, can you tell me how they are supposed to get raised? You know...continuing the human race and all? If men need to wake up and go their own way?
Do you men's rights guys have any concept whatsoever what the cost of raising a child is, in terms of impact to the mother's body and health, the massive amounts of time (which could be otherwise used earning money) and the huge financial cost? It really is a lot.
Oh, and by the by, I know plenty of couples where the man insisted on the marriage, wanted it more, and indeed profited more from it than the woman did.
Thing is, we all make our choices, live our lives, and pay our dues. Another reason I don't like extremist organizations and mindsets is that they are often way too judgmental towards the choices of others. They impinge upon freedom by denouncing those who chose their own way, should that way not fit in the paradigm of the group's mindset.
If I, by my own free choice and free will, wanted to live a life as a housewife, breeding and cooking for my man, subservient to his decisions, never getting an higher education or pursuing a career, if I found a man who earned enough to support the family and he was happy with that situation, I see nothing wrong with that. Yet many feminists would. And I'm sure many MRA types would be hollering about me being lazy and not doing as much as my husband or some nonsense (they'd fuss just as loud if I were competing with him in business.) Now tell me why it is that any of these folks have a right or a need to judge whatever choices I make in my life...? How is it your business? How does it affect you?
Some of the OP's frustrations are contrivances of personal misapprehension, latent insecurities and the like. Others are the realities of modern dating – limited access to interesting people, miscommunication, lack of venues for casual interaction, mistrust between the genders. There is much wisdom in the advice given thus far to the OP, but there is also – in my opinion – a mistake. And that is, in the claim that a few changes of presentation and attitude would transform the OP's prospects. Certainly, these changes should help. But I don't see them as necessarily making a huge difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
... You ever play D&D? Are you a Sci Fi fan? Do you have a favorite Doctor or Captain of the Enterprise? Or do you just call yourself a nerd because you managed to make education and success a priority and weren't trying to grow up to be a ball player or drug dealer? I mean, you see what I'm saying here? I'm not sure you're a nerd, man. It doesn't sound like it to me.
It is unfortunate that the term "nerd" has come to connote the playing of various board-games, the consumption of various television shows and the like… unless of course Sonic Spork is offering whimsy to relieve the tension. By my reckoning, a "nerd" is a narrow technical specialist, of prodigious talent and training in his or her field, but limited situational awareness, limited absorption of cues and modes, and largely a disdain for what is fashionable and mainstream. A prototypical "nerd" would be John Forbes Nash, or Paul Erdos, or Ludwig Prandtl, or Fritz Zwicky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabridgienne
So women are "lower quality" these days but men are high quality? How does that happen?
Do you consider your mother "low quality"?
One way to resolve the "cognitive dissonance", as another poster phrased it, is to compare the so-called MGTOW fad with the Pauline Epistles, or various Quranic passages. The female is the "lesser vessel". A son's mother is defined foremost as his father's wife. The proper role of women is sequestration and removal from the sphere of men. This, to various levels of intensity, is the accepted rubric amongst around several billion people; in fact, most of the "third world". I do not advocate this view, or even excuse it. But it's worth noting that these MGTOW fellows aren't revolutionaries or peddlers of an alternative lifestyle. On the contrary, they are fundamentalists. And like most fundamentalists, however repulsive their diatribes, however idiotic their "solutions", some of their grievances have merit, and it is unwise to dismiss them as being impotent idlers or shrill buffoons.
Some of the OP's frustrations are contrivances of personal misapprehension, latent insecurities and the like. Others are the realities of modern dating – limited access to interesting people, miscommunication, lack of venues for casual interaction, mistrust between the genders. There is much wisdom in the advice given thus far to the OP, but there is also – in my opinion – a mistake. And that is, in the claim that a few changes of presentation and attitude would transform the OP's prospects. Certainly, these changes should help. But I don't see them as necessarily making a huge difference.
It is unfortunate that the term "nerd" has come to connote the playing of various board-games, the consumption of various television shows and the like… unless of course Sonic Spork is offering whimsy to relieve the tension. By my reckoning, a "nerd" is a narrow technical specialist, of prodigious talent and training in his or her field, but limited situational awareness, limited absorption of cues and modes, and largely a disdain for what is fashionable and mainstream. A prototypical "nerd" would be John Forbes Nash, or Paul Erdos, or Ludwig Prandtl, or Fritz Zwicky.
One way to resolve the "cognitive dissonance", as another poster phrased it, is to compare the so-called MGTOW fad with the Pauline Epistles, or various Quranic passages. The female is the "lesser vessel". A son's mother is defined foremost as his father's wife. The proper role of women is sequestration and removal from the sphere of men. This, to various levels of intensity, is the accepted rubric amongst around several billion people; in fact, most of the "third world". I do not advocate this view, or even excuse it. But it's worth noting that these MGTOW fellows aren't revolutionaries or peddlers of an alternative lifestyle. On the contrary, they are fundamentalists. And like most fundamentalists, however repulsive their diatribes, however idiotic their "solutions", some of their grievances have merit, and it is unwise to dismiss them as being impotent idlers or shrill buffoons.
lol. except, they really are.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
