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Old 10-26-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,005,208 times
Reputation: 7588

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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I believe the term zero sum game is rather well known, but this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game


Fine -- not a zero sum game.

But what IS it? Certainly a "game" of sorts, whereby there are advances, withdrawals, wins and losses? Perhaps not of a "zero-sum" nature wherein the win/loss measure is equal, but one may win or lose a game -- period -- is this not so?

Where I asserted that giving sex too freely may diminish a person, man or woman, is within the scope of how they view themselves AND how others perceive them.

A girl too free with her sexual favors is viewed HOW by others, for right or wrong? It's been said so, SO many times in these very forums, whether stated indignantly by women OR hinted at by men.

She remains sexually desirable, whether via social purview OR simply for the sake of partners who wish to "get off" for momentary satisfaction. Win.

She LOSES marital desirability; while some will argue the semantics of the scenario, let's cut to the chase: Nobody wants highly-used goods. Loss.


A man is supposed to be virile, experienced and skilled sexually -- yet virtuous. I've always wondered where he was supposed to gain all that experience... while being virtuous.

You think I'm wrong? Look at the FIRST place women hit back socially if they want to hurt a man: They hit him in the sexuality. They spread rumors that a girl is easy; they spread rumors that a man is a lousy lay, lesser in prowess, smaller in... "stature". That suggests expectations on both sides of the equation, men and women alike. They really want to hurt him, they add to it the lack of moral character: "Oh, he can charm women and sleep with them once, but never KEEP them! Why do you think that is?" The implication is that he is terrible in bed despite his good looks or charm, but a lousy lay AND a terrible person. He really gets around -- and there's a reason for it!



Think of the sexual expression regarding how men and women are perceived all around:

A key that opens many locks is a Master key. A lock which is opened by many keys is just a terrible lock.

Horribly unfair, but it sums up how men and women alike feel about... well, about men and women and sexuality.



Too much, she's a prude; too little, she's a tramp. Disagree? Ask some women if this isn't the conundrum they feel they've had to navigate before.



Too much, he gains enemies and becomes publicly touted as undesirable; too little, and "women must avoid him for a reason". Disagree? Why do you think women go for a man once he's taken but not "kept" (married), while they avoid some pretty good guys who have no mate? Why do you think it's an old adage that women become interested when they see another woman interested?


Not zero-sum, certainly; but resembling a game, undeniably.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:47 PM
 
2,013 posts, read 1,603,995 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
Fine -- not a zero sum game.

But what IS it? Certainly a "game" of sorts, whereby there are advances, withdrawals, wins and losses? Perhaps not of a "zero-sum" nature wherein the win/loss measure is equal, but one may win or lose a game -- period -- is this not so?

Where I asserted that giving sex too freely may diminish a person, man or woman, is within the scope of how they view themselves AND how others perceive them.

A girl too free with her sexual favors is viewed HOW by others, for right or wrong? It's been said so, SO many times in these very forums, whether stated indignantly by women OR hinted at by men.

She remains sexually desirable, whether via social purview OR simply for the sake of partners who wish to "get off" for momentary satisfaction. Win.

She LOSES marital desirability; while some will argue the semantics of the scenario, let's cut to the chase: Nobody wants highly-used goods. Loss.


A man is supposed to be virile, experienced and skilled sexually -- yet virtuous. I've always wondered where he was supposed to gain all that experience... while being virtuous.

You think I'm wrong? Look at the FIRST place women hit back socially if they want to hurt a man: They hit him in the sexuality. They spread rumors that a girl is easy; they spread rumors that a man is a lousy lay, lesser in prowess, smaller in... "stature". That suggests expectations on both sides of the equation, men and women alike. They really want to hurt him, they add to it the lack of moral character: "Oh, he can charm women and sleep with them once, but never KEEP them! Why do you think that is?" The implication is that he is terrible in bed despite his good looks or charm, but a lousy lay AND a terrible person. He really gets around -- and there's a reason for it!



Think of the sexual expression regarding how men and women are perceived all around:

A key that opens many locks is a Master key. A lock which is opened by many keys is just a terrible lock.

Horribly unfair, but it sums up how men and women alike feel about... well, about men and women and sexuality.



Too much, she's a prude; too little, she's a tramp. Disagree? Ask some women if this isn't the conundrum they feel they've had to navigate before.



Too much, he gains enemies and becomes publicly touted as undesirable; too little, and "women must avoid him for a reason". Disagree? Why do you think women go for a man once he's taken but not "kept" (married), while they avoid some pretty good guys who have no mate? Why do you think it's an old adage that women become interested when they see another woman interested?


Not zero-sum, certainly; but resembling a game, undeniably.
As sucky and unfair as your points are---and even though I don't subscribe to those viewpoints---I cannot deny that they exist.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,005,208 times
Reputation: 7588
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissClutterbuck View Post
As sucky and unfair as your points are---and even though I don't subscribe to those viewpoints---I cannot deny that they exist.

I don't agree with them; but they exist in adequate quantity we've all had to navigate them to some extent.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:50 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
19,638 posts, read 20,130,445 times
Reputation: 28747
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissClutterbuck View Post
I actually had a FB for a short period of time who got off on pretending we were "making love"--in other words, we'd tell each other we loved each other and act like a committed couple while we were in bed together, but we really weren't. It was fun at the time because I was newly single and enjoying my solitude, but it was nice to hear all these nice things, even if it was just make believe.
Wow, that's depressing... Not in a pathetic way, but just goes to show how we as people can be so equally desirous for & yet afraid of LOVE.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:52 PM
 
2,013 posts, read 1,603,995 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by D217 View Post
Wow, that's depressing... Not in a pathetic way, but just goes to show how we as people can be so equally desirous & yet afraid of LOVE.
Not afraid of love. We weren't compatible outside of the bedroom.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:54 PM
 
714 posts, read 744,791 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you just want a non-religious, child-free, cigarette-free, drug-free, professional, atheist... I know all of ZERO people (men and women) who would fit that.

Now I do know several atheist vegans with children that have open marriages... would that help?

I fit into that description depending on your definition of "drug free" lol.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,005,208 times
Reputation: 7588
Quote:
Originally Posted by D217 View Post
Wow, that's depressing... Not in a pathetic way, but just goes to show how we as people can be so equally desirous & yet afraid of LOVE.

I don't think people are afraid of LOVE; I think they learn after a while to be jittery about the very risks you posed: Putting themselves fully out there, no holds barred -- only to get knocked to the mat and not in the good way.

Somebody has to make a first move if any of this is ever going to go farther, but the first one to risk exposes their throat, renders themselves vulnerable. A bar, an online relationship, what have you; the first to take the step to make this into something more is THE ONE to risk rejection.

If it happens enough, becoming gun-shy is understandable. The game feels rigged, but you CAN'T win if you WON'T play.
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,006 posts, read 52,457,444 times
Reputation: 52520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
I don't think people are afraid of LOVE; I think they learn after a while to be jittery about the very risks you posed: Putting themselves fully out there, no holds barred -- only to get knocked to the mat and not in the good way.

Somebody has to make a first move if any of this is ever going to go farther, but the first one to risk exposes their throat, renders themselves vulnerable. A bar, an online relationship, what have you; the first to take the step to make this into something more is THE ONE to risk rejection.

If it happens enough, becoming gun-shy is understandable. The game feels rigged, but you CAN'T win if you WON'T play.
The trend that I'm picking up from younger people, but older people too, is is that no one wants to put themselves out there, it's like people are sitting back and have more of a "what can you do for me" approach, I think the ubiquity of all of the various dating sites, apps, and just the larger selection of people out their has sort of stalled people's willingness to "settle" because we all settle a bit, only in the sense that we are all flawed and there is always, always gonna be something about a potential mate that you don't like.

It's almost like an "analysis paralysis" kind of deal.... too many choices seems to not always be the best thing...

Why bother investing in this person in front of me, when there is someone around the corner who is better???
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,838,343 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
Fine -- not a zero sum game.

But what IS it? Certainly a "game" of sorts, whereby there are advances, withdrawals, wins and losses? Perhaps not of a "zero-sum" nature wherein the win/loss measure is equal, but one may win or lose a game -- period -- is this not so?
No, it is not so. Sex is a way of connecting with someone. It isn't a game or something that is won or lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
A girl too free with her sexual favors is viewed HOW by others, for right or wrong? It's been said so, SO many times in these very forums, whether stated indignantly by women OR hinted at by men.

She remains sexually desirable, whether via social purview OR simply for the sake of partners who wish to "get off" for momentary satisfaction. Win.

She LOSES marital desirability; while some will argue the semantics of the scenario, let's cut to the chase: Nobody wants highly-used goods. Loss.
She doesnt LOSE desirability from good people. She might be viewed negatively by jerks/neanderthals/chauvinists/cretins, etc But who gives a damn what those losers thing?

Having jerks and idiots view you as not desirable is not a loss in any shape of the world. In fact, if you want to argue wins and losses, you can more easily argue that it is a win since low quality people are excluded from your suitor pool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
A key that opens many locks is a Master key. A lock which is opened by many keys is just a terrible lock.

Seriously, this train of thought / idea is something that society would benefit from having a Constitutional amendment that if it is uttered or sincerely believed, that the dude in question would be summarily castrated. It is beyond belief ill conceptually.

Last edited by timberline742; 10-26-2015 at 01:28 PM..
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,005,208 times
Reputation: 7588
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
No, it is not so. Sex is a way of connecting with someone. It isn't a game or something that is won or lost.



She doesnt LOSE desirability from good people. She might be viewed negatively by jerks/neanderthals/chauvinists/cretins, etc But who gives a damn what those losers thing?

Having jerks and idiots view you as not desirable is not a loss in any shape of the world. In fact, if you want to argue wins and losses, you can more easily argue that it is a win since low quality people are excluded from your suitor pool.

I just realized I could never answer in a way which would make sense to you.

Never mind. Sorry to have interrupted.
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