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you are absolutely correct, by the time I left him and got into counseling, she told me when I arrived, she was very worried b/c I had wild eyes (whatever that means) But the odd thing is, no one else saw him as I did....and he lied awfully good. But the worst thing was the confusion and mistrusting my very own integrity. He once told me, he envied me, but I always believed he tried to break me....
Something very terrible happened in that family, I don't know what....but the one sister claimed they ruined her life?
I'm so thankful for you as well...surviving a person like this is definately survival.....honestly I feel very sorry for his now wife....
every once in a while, he'd say,
"I'm no good" or put himself down briefly...when he first left his 1st wife, he'd talk about her terrible. After we were married, he made the comment, "she was a good person" and it just grabbed at my insides. I saw flags when we were dating, but ignored it....
You?
I understand every word you are saying. I am SO glad you got out. It's brainwashing worse than a cult because it's your spouse and it's a slow constant brainwash so after months and years you believe you are the one with the problem and then don't trust your own judgment to leave!
I have had abuse in my life, from family to exs to strangers, mental and physical, but *nothing* I have experienced holds a candle to severe and constant gaslighting and being married to someone with NSP and ASPD, in my opinion. Nothing.
Yes, that's what my marriage counselor said. I refer to her as that because I went to her to save my marriage (since I was unhappy and wanted to leave, but I was pregnant so I felt I had to stay because I didn't want my son in a broken home so I told the ex we needed counseling or we were over). But people with NPD believe nothing is wrong with them, so he went to about 4 sessions then stopped going (because he said he has no flaws. Every human has flaws and room for growth) -- a hallmark sign of NPD.
I continued to go without him, per her urging. It was that first appointment without him that she told me his diagnosis, that he was dangerous, and I needed to do work on myself to ensure I never attract another one again. She said that there's only a small percentage of society with this mental condition he has that causes him to gaslight, but that personality is drawn like a moth to a flame to my personality type (bubbly, passive, outgoing, very smart).
She said since there was abuse in my childhood (my mother is mentally ill with BPD and paranoia), that my radar for red flags isn't the same as other people's so things that would make others run I overlook and dismiss. She said she might not ever be able to put an internal radar in someone that never had one due to my upbringing and being used to being passive to avoid abuse from my mother, but that she could teach me to speak up more (not be aggressive, but also not passive, she wants me assertive, which I think I am now) and to use a mental checklist to ensure I'm not walking into another trap so that the next person with NPD will move on to someone else.
And it doesn't have to be significant others. I realized I was attracting this personality to me even at work and some friends. I left that job eventually, but only because I'd hit the ceiling. Most people leave after 6 mos because they loathe the owner, no exaggeration, yet I was there for 8 *years*. Now in hindsight I see all the red flags plain as day. I also moved on from those friends. I even became estranged from my mother (she endangered my son and that was the last straw for me), and have never felt happier. I finally feel like I am surrounded by healthy people that love me and my son and would never harm us.
I strongly urge you to get into therapy and learn these self-protection skills, if you haven't already. I've already successfully avoided a few of them since the ex and I split. My alarms were going off like crazy!
Yes, she said that in hindsight, signs of NPD can be traced back to the first date. And boy was she right! The first date felt weird, but the biggest thing I did wrong was *not listen to my gut*! The reason I didn't was because I figured I'm not perfect, so why judge others for their flaws? Also, since I couldn't put my finger on exactly what felt off, I didn't feel it was enough reason to stop talking to someone, especially when he was pursuing me so strongly.
I remember saying to him, before we married, that my only hesitation to marry him was that he was too perfect, because nothing in life is perfect. But that sounded so cynical, so again I didn't listen to my gut and let him rush me into moving in, marriage, and having a child (all relatively quickly from the previous step). She said that's a common tactic because they know they can only fake being empathetic and normal for so long, so they try to trap you quickly.
At the end of the day, I did want a child, and I got full custody, so I see it as a blessing that I got the child I wanted and we both lived to tell about it. Actually, had I not gotten pregnant, I would have expected less for myself than for my son and would have stayed. But because I want the world for my son and my expectations are higher for what I give him, I insisted on marriage counseling and that very thing saved my son and me. So, in an indirect way, at the risk of sounding melodramatic, I truly feel like the birth of my son saved my life.
Sorry for the long post, but if anything I have experienced or learned along the way can help anyone else, it was worth it to save even one person from this hell.
Last edited by UserName14289; 01-09-2016 at 09:50 AM..
Reason: typo
UserNameI understand every word you are saying. I am SO glad you got out. It's brainwashing worse than a cult because it's your spouse and it's a slow constant brainwash so after months and years you believe you are the one with the problem and then don't trust your own judgment to leave!
Yes, it absolutely is....I'm not happy in the least that you experienced this, but it is surely comforting to know someone who has been through this, b/c others just don't understand the damaging capability of these people.
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I have had abuse in my life, from family to exs to strangers, mental and physical, but *nothing* I have experienced holds a candle to severe and constant gaslighting and being married to someone with NSP and ASPD, in my opinion. Nothing.
Me to...and totally agree
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Yes, that's what my marriage counselor said. I refer to her as that because I went to her to save my marriage (since I was unhappy and wanted to leave, but I was pregnant so I felt I had to stay because I didn't want my son in a broken home so I told the ex we needed counseling or we were over). But people with NPD believe nothing is wrong with them, so he went to about 4 sessions then stopped going (because he said he has no flaws. Every human has flaws and room for growth) -- a hallmark sign of NPD.
I did the same thing, but allowed him to chose the counselor otherwise he would have said, he/she didn't know what they were talking about. He was so good at lying, that she told me in private, something is definately going on here, but what exactly it is, I don't know. It is now 19 years ago....so, back then, I'm sure counselors were not aware of Gaslighting?
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I continued to go without him, per her urging. It was that first appointment without him that she told me his diagnosis, that he was dangerous, and I needed to do work on myself to ensure I never attract another one again. She said that there's only a small percentage of society with this mental condition he has that causes him to gaslight, but that personality is drawn like a moth to a flame to my personality type (bubbly, passive, outgoing, very smart).
After 3 counselors, which he chose and 4 more years, I finally left. couldn't take it any longer, he refused to admit he was running around. Even the neighbor tried to follow him in the morning, but it was so evident, that my now ex, just took off so fast...
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She said since there was abuse in my childhood (my mother is mentally ill with BPD and paranoia), that my radar for red flags isn't the same as other people's so things that would make others run I overlook and dismiss. She said she might not ever be able to put an internal radar in someone that never had one due to my upbringing and being used to being passive to avoid abuse from my mother, but that she could teach me to speak up more (not be aggressive, but also not passive, she wants me assertive, which I think I am now) and to use a mental checklist to ensure I'm not walking into another trap so that the next person with NPD will move on to someone else.
My mother was extremely abusive both physically and mentally....I have not talked to her in oh, maybe 4 years. I feel sorry for her, but she always blamed me for her life....thank God I had a foster family...who invited me in and they practically raised me. I will give her this, she worked several jobs to keep us fed, clothed and the bills paid.
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And it doesn't have to be significant others. I realized I was attracting this personality to me even at work and some friends. I left that job eventually, but only because I'd hit the ceiling. Most people leave after 6 mos because they loathe the owner, no exaggeration, yet I was there for 8 *years*. Now in hindsight I see all the red flags plain as day. I also moved on from those friends. I even became estranged from my mother (she endangered my son and that was the last straw for me), and have never felt happier. I finally feel like I am surrounded by healthy people that love me and my son and would never harm us.
yes, me to, in girlfriends....but no more. After I left him, I started immediate counseling...for myself, b/c I knew I needed it....she told me, to be very careful, to work on myself, b/c I would probably pic others like him. I realized over a long time of couseling and self exploration, so many valuable life lessons.
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Yes, she said that in hindsight, signs of NPD can be traced back to the first date. And boy was she right! The first date felt weird, but the biggest thing I did wrong was *not listen to my gut*! The reason I didn't was because I figured I'm not perfect, so why judge others for their flaws? Also, since I couldn't put my finger on exactly what felt off, I didn't feel it was enough reason to stop talking to someone, especially when he was pursuing me so strongly.
I broke off our engagment several times, but like you didn't listen to that gut feeling. So sorry I didn't!
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I remember saying to him, before we married, that my only hesitation to marry him was that he was too perfect, because nothing in life is perfect. But that sounded so cynical, so again I didn't listen to my gut and let him rush me into moving in, marriage, and having a child (all relatively quickly from the previous step). She said that's a common tactic because they know they can only fake being empathetic and normal for so long, so they try to trap you quickly.
yes, and did you notice right after you married him, he changed like day and night and started working on you, degrading you, beating you up verbally? I'm a great cook, and every single time we sat down to eat, he complained about the meal....to the point I'd shake to put dinner on the table. No lie.
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At the end of the day, I did want a child, and I got full custody, so I see it as a blessing that I got the child I wanted and we both lived to tell about it. Actually, had I not gotten pregnant, I would have expected less for myself than for my son and would have stayed. But because I want the world for my son and my expectations are higher for what I give him, I insisted on marriage counseling and that very thing saved my son and me. So, in an indirect way, at the risk of sounding melodramatic, I truly feel like the birth of my son saved my life.
I'm glad you got out, but also so thankful for your child....
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Sorry for the long post, but if anything I have experienced or learned along the way can help anyone else, it was worth it to save even one person from this hell.
No worries, honestly, I to, hope to help others who are living this hell....please continue to come back and post if you like...it is so nice to know, that someone else realizes what I've experienced. Thank you so much.
My neighbors told me, "Creme, you have a path to work and to the grocery store and that is the extent of your life"....and she was right....he wouldn't allow me to go anywhere.
Once I went with a friend to a movie, and he got all angry and rude to her upon her coming to the house that night.
He hated all my friends, said, they were no good...so slowly over years, each one was cut out of my life...
It was so I had no support from anyone.
He ran around, and yet, when I asked to go to the shore with my girlfriends, he said, "NO".
When I took the dogs out for a walk/run, if I bumped into someone and took too long, he'd come after me.
When we did have company, he would always put me down in front of them, when I spoke or told a story.
And when things got really bad...he contacted the one person I loved and respected. He and his wife were very close friends, and they were allowed in our lives, b/c my ex liked them. So this person was my boss, and I dearly loved him, respected him....best boss I ever had...his wife and I became best friends.
My ex, turned this man against me....even went to my own cousin and tried...and the only reason he did so, is b/c my cousin's husband, not only hunted, fished but did taxidermy. I to this day would be willing to bet, that he took his wife there to meet them.
He went hunting and fishing yet, refused to take me anywhere. Once I did go along fishing with him. In the beginning...I had fished all my life....he tried to tell me exactly where to fish, what lure to use, how many pound test....it just wasn't worth it to go along.
I became very ill....ended up in the hospital...turned out I had MS. They thought I'd never work again.
One of the neighbors told me, he came over to their house, while I was in the hospital and started to cry and cry, saying my illness was all his fault.
Sometimes, he'd say things that would scare me....like little messages to tell me, he was doing us and our relationship wrong. It was like he wanted me to get upset, so he could deny saying it, or doing anything wrong.
We had no problems he'd say.
We used to leave the house in the car together and he'd ask me, which way did I want to go, and when I told him, he'd go the opposite way.
I'm so so so glad I left him. And so glad for his sister's advice to leave.
Gaslighting is just a symptom of that type, I'd focus overall on the behavior not some much this "gaselighting" element of it, you can use that as a symptom checker for a larger problem, but again, his behavior is sociopathic, which is an old term, ASPD which I referenced earlier is the more up to date term.
Avoid those types as soon as possible, never again second guess yourself again, once in a blue moon is ok, but if you find yourself second guessing yourself more than once in a blue moon, bounce and don't ever look back, don't feel sorry for them, don't ever feel sorry for those sleazy worthless bags of human flesh, I'd like to put a bullet in their heads, every last one of them, harsh, but the amount of discord that ASPD's put on this earth, a bullet to the brain is small cost, I'd donate a small amount of money from every paycheck I ever earn towards ammo.............. LOL...
I can relate. My best friend tries to be as supportive as she can be (she rocks), but I just can't talk to her about it because you just can't relate until you've been there. So I keep it to myself, unless I find someone who has also been there or I think they might be going through it and I'll try to help.
Yes, he changed as soon as we married. Like as soon as the honeymoon, it was Jekyll and Hyde. I never want to return to Fiji for that reason. People who haven't been there say, "oh, no one shows their bad side in the beginning." This wasn't a case of him now leaving his dirty laundry on the floor and burping in front of me. This was, he was a *completely* *different* *person*. It was NUTS!
My father's college degree is psychology (he's always analyzing people), my college minor was child psychology, my mother is mentally ill so I spent a great deal of my childhood in and out of shrink offices with her and in institutions visiting her. Even *I* did not see this coming and could have never put it into words (and some days still can't) until surviving it. Our marriage counselor said that a few are so slick, that they're hard to detect, even for someone with a PhD and that is looking for the signs. She said my ex was one of those. Lucky me. But that's okay, he may have fooled me at first, but I got out, so I win. As for whomever he's with now, well...
Gaslighting is just a symptom of that type, I'd focus overall on the behavior not some much this "gaselighting" element of it, you can use that as a symptom checker for a larger problem, but again, his behavior is sociopathic, which is an old term, ASPD which I referenced earlier is the more up to date term.
Yes, and luckily it's not genetic, so as parents we have the power to stop the cycle.
Gaslighting is just a symptom of that type, I'd focus overall on the behavior not some much this "gaselighting" element of it, you can use that as a symptom checker for a larger problem, but again, his behavior is sociopathic, which is an old term, ASPD which I referenced earlier is the more up to date term.
Avoid those types as soon as possible, never again second guess yourself again, once in a blue moon is ok, but if you find yourself second guessing yourself more than once in a blue moon, bounce and don't ever look back, don't feel sorry for them, don't ever feel sorry for those sleazy worthless bags of human flesh, I'd like to put a bullet in their heads, every last one of them, harsh, but the amount of discord that ASPD's put on this earth, a bullet to the brain is small cost, I'd donate a small amount of money from every paycheck I ever earn towards ammo.............. LOL...
I can relate. My best friend tries to be as supportive as she can be (she rocks), but I just can't talk to her about it because you just can't relate until you've been there. So I keep it to myself, unless I find someone who has also been there or I think they might be going through it and I'll try to help.
Yes, he changed as soon as we married. Like as soon as the honeymoon, it was Jekyll and Hyde. I never want to return to Fiji for that reason. People who haven't been there say, "oh, no one shows their bad side in the beginning." This wasn't a case of him now leaving his dirty laundry on the floor and burping in front of me. This was, he was a *completely* *different* *person*. It was NUTS!
My father's college degree is psychology (he's always analyzing people), my college minor was child psychology, my mother is mentally ill so I spent a great deal of my childhood in and out of shrink offices with her and in institutions visiting her. Even *I* did not see this coming and could have never put it into words (and some days still can't) until surviving it. Our marriage counselor said that a few are so slick, that they're hard to detect, even for someone with a PhD and that is looking for the signs. She said my ex was one of those. Lucky me. But that's okay, he may have fooled me at first, but I got out, so I win. As for whomever he's with now, well...
yes, you did get out....good for you!
and yeah, ya wonder about the person he is with now....I feel very sorry for her, he will suck her dry emotionally. Up until this point her daughters were there, then his mother, but now they're all gone, so he will start playing his games with her. So sad, she won't know what hit her.
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