Guys: Paying on first date, second, or in general (men, single, younger)
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It's a guest/host thing. Once someone is a couple, fine, whatever works for them. But for those first few dates, whoever asks, pays. Usually if I like a guy, I'll be the one to suggest, and be prepared to spring for, the third date. But TBH, it has been my experience that the men I've dated didn't particularly like it when I took out my wallet. It's actually a point of pride, and they didn't like not being the one to hand the tab to the waiter. It was like they felt emasculated or something.
I find it odd to the point of being surreal that someone would complain about a guest accepting an invitation to be a guest. I also find it absolutely bizarre that anyone would harbor resentment about it. Generally dates are to signify that you are interested in and like someone. I don't know about you, but when I like someone, I like to do nice things for them, and that includes treating them to something.
Way too many young bucks on here view dating as some kind of transaction. And 90% of the time, those are the same guys who complain about never having been in a relationship or had sex. Well, if you can't get the basics right, how in heaven's name can you expect to succeed in a relationship where presumably you love someone? Are they going to get out a ledger?
Yes a guest/host is actually a good way to look at it
I HATE it myself seeing a ladies wallet as it goes across the grain for me however....... Back to what you were saying about the states...... We have a different system in bars in the sense that you pay for your drinks there and then and not at the end when your leaving, personally I'd love it if it were your way as I could pay there and then ( but still do either way ).
It is pride with me I'll admit but I have had good women like yourself take there wallets out and i usually joke " if it bothers you then you will have to see me again "LOL ( all good natured of course ), Oh again like yourself I DO treat someone whether it's a night out, lunch, or a gift .
Funny your say " transaction " as only last night on here in another thread, a fella compared paying for a date as PAYING for sex! " . Now my answer was if i were to look at it that way ( obviously I don't ) I would look at it as I'm paying for a ladies TIME as obviously they don't have go for a night out with me and could easily go out with someone else!.
But YOUR so right it makes me laugh that some men have the cheek and front to moan/winge about " dating " when they don't know the basics
Don't get me wrong, here's the thing.
If you're the one calling your good friends for a night out, they won't expect you to pay again and again. In fact, a new guy won't expect you to foot the bill for him even if it's the first time he joined your group of friends.
If you want to argue that it's because men and women are different, it's not. The custom of paying for going out in a coffee shop or a club is 20th century "custom". It's "origins" stem from early 20th century in America and England and during the time when this "custom" arose, teenage boys were the ones who already worked before being legal adults, supporting even their elderly parents (adulthood was also 21 y/o at that time and only got lowered when military needed more meat fodder for wars).
Observing the whole context at the time and desired family setting, the idea of "stay-at-home wives" became affordable for middle-class households, unlike in 19th century, when this custom actually arose among very wealthy folks. The custom of stay-at-home wives generally faded away as more and more work became evaluated via payments, stay-at-home wives actually had plenty of work.
In our time you have different setting. Both men and women are expected to work. Idea of "stay-at-home wives" is most present among the middle-class and the less affluent folks, unlike before. These folks are the ones who are the least likely to afford it, anyways, thus the point is moot.
Also worth noting - today's teenagers and 20-something adults regularly depend on their parents when it comes to income and parents tend to (financially) help their kids even while in their 50s and 60s. Just ask yourself how come so many students study in their 20s without any stable job that can cover their expenses and you'll get my point.
In such environment, women who expect a guy to pay are basically expecting that guy's parents to pay it. That's the most stupid part. It's not about chivalry, it's about being obnoxious, disrespectful and entitled.
On top of that, these young women also get the money when they go out, but they spend it on themselves, not for a guy they date but so they can elevate their attractiveness in general.
It isn't much different even if a guy makes his own money. It's completely stupid to have your "friends" expect or demand you to pay for things each time you are with him. Now just imagine when a relative stranger demands it on the basis that she might wish to date you.... see the point? It's not about being a gentleman. It's about women wanting to feel their own entitlement. She'll be forced to make her mind quickly and not to string you along while waiting for a guy who strikes her fancy in a better way. There's no rational explanation on why a woman would reject a guy simply because he didn't pay for her, besides the obvious: desire for personal entitlement and desire to play the field while stringing a guy along in hope someone better will show up.
Idea that "man asked her out" is moot, she should pay what she orders.
Friends are not dates in short mate
Don't forget that when you first start dating or even the first date the first impression is HUGELY important
And " idea that " man asked her out " is moot , she should pay what she orders " ...... Tut tut tut... Is what springs to mind. If a man asks her out especially after he chases her why shouldn't he pay?
Jade just hit the nail on the head with one word....... Manners
Generally the guy pays for the first date in my world. I'm happy to alternate buying drinks for each other if we meet in a pub, but he still has to buy the first one. Any dates after that I'm happy to take turns.
Yep that's true in a pub for example, I pay for the entire first night but the second..... Alternate rounds is ok but if a meal followed..... I would pay
Personally I would only let them pay for a meal or something else ( that's not more than a few quid ) once we were actually together.
Yep. Men will always love a good home-cooked meal, too. Some things just are, and in the States, asker pays in the early stages, and the asker is usually the man.
Plenty of countries in other parts of the world where there isn't really even a dating culture. Look at places like Finland. If a man takes a woman out for a fancy meal there and pays for it, he's practically ready to get married.
Don't forget that when you first start dating or even the first date the first impression is HUGELY important
And " idea that " man asked her out " is moot , she should pay what she orders " ...... Tut tut tut... Is what springs to mind. If a man asks her out especially after he chases her why shouldn't he pay?
Jade just hit the nail on the head with one word....... Manners
The idea that "she should pay for what she orders" is only really applicable if everyone agrees to go Dutch or she did the asking and is on the hook as the "hostess" Most manners/etiquette would indicate that the inviter pays, especially in terms of dates. If it's two people hanging as friends going Dutch would be pretty much expected, unless someone explicitly says that they are paying. I know when I hung out with friends it was sort of expected that everyone would chip in for their own.
This is just plain manners and I don't know why people can't understand this simple simple grade school level logic.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Made you less prone to casually approach (some?) women
The fact I'm expected to pay for a date is of course is going to make me EXTREMELY selective on who I am going to dedicate my energy to in regards to dating. People on this forum want me to give every girl who gives me any interest a chance and take them out. Hello?! I don't have unlimited funds.
Not all guys pay for dates. My ex didnt. No big deal. I only went on one date where the guy paid, which was pretty cool. Most guys just don't want to spend money
The only thing that sucks is that I dont have money so normally I just try to name stuff we can do that doesnt cost any money.
It's a guest/host thing. Once someone is a couple, fine, whatever works for them. But for those first few dates, whoever asks, pays. Usually if I like a guy, I'll be the one to suggest, and be prepared to spring for, the third date. But TBH, it has been my experience that the men I've dated didn't particularly like it when I took out my wallet. It's actually a point of pride, and they didn't like not being the one to hand the tab to the waiter. It was like they felt emasculated or something.
#1 I find it odd to the point of being surreal that someone would complain about a guest accepting an invitation to be a guest. I also find it absolutely bizarre that anyone would harbor resentment about it. Generally dates are to signify that you are interested in and like someone. I don't know about you, but when I like someone, I like to do nice things for them, and that includes treating them to something.
#2 Way too many young bucks on here view dating as some kind of transaction. And 90% of the time, those are the same guys who complain about never having been in a relationship or had sex. Well, if you can't get the basics right, how in heaven's name can you expect to succeed in a relationship where presumably you love someone? Are they going to get out a ledger?
1. I've been on a two weddings while living in America. A general rule on each of those occasions was that guests basically "paid" their seat. I am lacking a better term, but you'll definitely understand what I mean. I was a guest at someone else's wedding on more than one occasion and I am very familiar how it goes. Let me tell you something as well.... Imagine if someone gave LESS than what the "chair cost". I am wondering what kind of a reaction would be by the hosts. They definitely wouldn't say it, but they'll definitely not be okay with it, deep down. And if they would be called within that same year on that person's wedding, they'd make sure to "return the favor".
This is what I learned from general behavior or average Americans. Now tell me I'm wrong.... but please don't throw in morality or something to bash me for something that I observed. Trying to bash me with false morality will not change my stance that was formed on rational observations, I am very sure that the scenarios I described are very common and mainstream. Yet, women expect a guy to pay for dates. It only became less acceptable among the younger generation to say it in the open, so they package it into the "whoever does the approach". Plenty of women date casually and they are very much on the lookout for a better opportunity, especially while in initial stages. This way of demanding a guy to cover the bill means that they deliberately want to cripple the guy's incentive to take a casual approach as well. He needs to invest himself and go overboard to make a woman feel comfortable and to give her enough leeway to utilize it in any way that might benefit her or her options.
That's only something an a-hole would do. Friends don't do it. Honest people don't do it.
2.The second bold part - virgin shaming. Nothing new on city-data. By the way, people who view dating as some transaction are the people who demand someone else to pay for their meals and drinks. That's beyond obnoxious and plain simply it's entitled. It's also a way to act like a gold-digger, especially when it involves things that are not so cheap. Guess why vast majority of guys of new generations, those who know how dating goes in America, are prone to go with the "netflix and chill" approach. You say they are struggling with dating and being virgins, ok, that's your opinion.
There's a reason why most successful and most fulfilling way for a guy in America is to not pay when dating. He gets much more relaxed once he finally dismantles that framework that cripples him to behave in such way. Once he sees himself and his own satisfaction as important as everyone else's, he'll finally start seeing through the entitlement and figure out why he met so many jerk-women who played the field, then he'll be seen as a jerk himself but he'll do what feels good for him. If it feels good, he'll get laid and move on. He'll have fun. His chances of finding a woman who's "traditional" on things that matter to him/most guys (not on what a woman expects from a guy) - are slim. Not stressing about it is what guys who successfully dated in Virginia happened to employ.
Last edited by nald; 01-14-2016 at 06:52 PM..
Reason: cutting out personal rant.
The idea that "she should pay for what she orders" is only really applicable if everyone agrees to go Dutch or she did the asking and is on the hook as the "hostess" Most manners/etiquette would indicate that the inviter pays, especially in terms of dates. If it's two people hanging as friends going Dutch would be pretty much expected, unless someone explicitly says that they are paying. I know when I hung out with friends it was sort of expected that everyone would chip in for their own.
This is just plain manners and I don't know why people can't understand this simple simple grade school level logic.
No I get the idea mate , and agree with the " friends " part and I expect the whip round
But a date is different for me, I've been asked out before and had them say " oh but I asked you out " sort of thing but I still insist on paying mate and it's always gone down well.
I know some people won't agree or do it but for better or worse that's me and I've never gone wrong by doing it.
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. Now my answer was if i were to look at it that way ( obviously I don't 
