Will more men go their own way in the near future? (wife, gay)
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After two very expensive divorces, I should have joined mgtow decades ago. "Divide your net worth by 2" divorce math when you're the dominant earner really blows when you do it twice.
I never had problems finding women. It was picking the right one that I've always sucked at.
In this day and age, we see all kinds of stories about men being rejected for all sorts of superfluous reasons, often by women who in years past would have at least considered the man. Women clearly have the upper hand in the legal system, and in the general dating market. Society is clearly becoming more liberal, and tilting its preferences toward women.
Will many men simply opt out of the dating/marriage going forward in the near term, say, five to ten years?
Many smart men have already opted out. It's easy. You get to stay single, you can date who you want, and nobody gets to steal half your assets in a divorce. As far as women having the upper hand in the dating market? Maybe you're in the wrong market.
Many smart men have already opted out. It's easy. You get to stay single, you can date who you want, and nobody gets to steal half your assets in a divorce. As far as women having the upper hand in the dating market? Maybe you're in the wrong market.
You seem to lack reading comprehension. Opting out, as per the OP, means no dating.
What you are describing is casual dating, which just as many women do as men.
Many smart men have already opted out. It's easy. You get to stay single, you can date who you want, and nobody gets to steal half your assets in a divorce.
That's opting out of marriage, which is different. Although, not being married costs a man about an extra 20 to 30 thousand dollars per year.
Personally, I'm more worried about women "taking their ball, and going home", than men. There was a hugely popular thread recently on the Retirement subforum, about older women (widowed, divorced or never-married) who find male pursuers to be more of a nuisance than a boon. The more women who do this, the fewer dating-opportunities remain for those men who remain in pursuit of a relationship. Even if these self-segregating women are "marginal", there is a cascading effect, wherein the less-desirable women who do remain in the market, become more prized, from scarcity.
My impression is that it's actually the women who are quietly exiting the dating market, while their male counterparts are shrill blowhards who make bold claims, but who remain very much interested in garnering female attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londoncowboy30
I don't understand why men get rejected more in this day and age as opposed to when?
Until a couple of generations ago, a man with appealing qualities on paper – but coarse personality and stunted social skills – could trade on his passive advantages, securing a spouse. Today this is generally not possible, outside of fringe-conservative groups, and some immigrant (mostly Middle Eastern/South Asian) subcultures.
As I see it, the problem isn't that society is becoming somehow tilted "towards women", but that for myriad reasons, salesmanship and personal appeal are becoming more important than hard-skills… whether we're talking about romantic relationships or promotion in the office. And whereas one can learn office-oriented human relations skills through workplace practice, thereby eventually succeeding in one's career, there really isn't a comparable scheme for mastering interpersonal relations in the social setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Meh, all the college educated women I know married college educated men. Actually, most of them met in college.
Good point. Which is why for many college-graduates, who move to blue-collar/rural areas, having a good education and a good job is actually a disadvantage in local dating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
...- Lack of a war ...
Sorry for quoting out of context, but I couldn't resist... I hear that there were lots of dating-opportunities for men in the US in 1866, in Western Europe in 1919, and more or less worldwide in 1946.
After two very expensive divorces, I should have joined mgtow decades ago. "Divide your net worth by 2" divorce math when you're the dominant earner really blows when you do it twice.
I never had problems finding women. It was picking the right one that I've always sucked at.
When I read stuff like this, it really makes me think about the whole "assortative mating" thing again. I think it makes sense. You can't have a relationship with no trust. I wouldn't want something like that to be in the back of my significant other's mind if we were considering building a life together. The laws being what they are, maybe men and women should put serious thought into forming relationships with those who are roughly their equal, income-wise. Then they both have the same amount to lose if anything goes wrong.
Personally, I'm more worried about women "taking their ball, and going home", than men. There was a hugely popular thread recently on the Retirement subforum, about older women (widowed, divorced or never-married) who find male pursuers to be more of a nuisance than a boon. The more women who do this, the fewer dating-opportunities remain for those men who remain in pursuit of a relationship. Even if these self-segregating women are "marginal", there is a cascading effect, wherein the less-desirable women who do remain in the market, become more prized, from scarcity.
My impression is that it's actually the women who are quietly exiting the dating market, while their male counterparts are shrill blowhards who make bold claims, but who remain very much interested in garnering female attention.
You know, this does sort of make sense to me in a way. It's always been completely transparent to me what the agenda is of the MRAs and whatnot online attacking women for having the "audacity" to remain single at 30 or prioritize their education over finding a match in their 20's is to try and bully them into picking a husband while they're young so that men don't have to wait as long for a partner or miss out entirely on finding one, or miss out on finding one while the woman is still "in her prime," or whatever. All the shrill, "Well, men get more options in their 30's and women lose all interest! You'll hit the wall if you don't pick one and settle down RIGHT NOW!!!! NOBODY WILL WANT YOU! YOUR EGGS! YOURRRRR EEEEEEGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSS! And foreign women! I can always take one of them too! EVEN MORE OPTIONS FOR ME, NANANANANAAAAAA!!!" is obviously an attempted scare tactic because they can see that a portion of young ladies - I don't know how many - simply see no urgency in looking for a man, forming a serious relationship, or having kids right away (if at all).
I don't know if they realize how self-defeating all of this nonsense actually is. Like I mean, if you're telling me that ALL men want a 20-year-old girlfriend and no man will find me attractive at 35 or 40 - or even 30 as is increasingly popular for them to say - are you not implicitly saying that you are one of them? Where is my incentive to believe that you are not going to abandon me or cheat on me with a 20-year-old escort when I am 40 anyway so what's the point? $hit, might as well just keep on doing what I do and make sure I have my own income. Like, this is what would be going through MY head if I were a woman reading that who did want kids (I don't).
So, as per usual, MGTOWs are really effing dumb. But I think there is something to your theory for sure.
You seem to lack reading comprehension. Opting out, as per the OP, means no dating.
What you are describing is casual dating, which just as many women do as men.
You're right. I thought the poster was referring to just marriage. Anyway, marriage is where you get screwed over, so that was my focus. No reason for the guys to opt out of dating.
You're right. I thought the poster was referring to just marriage. Anyway, marriage is where you get screwed over, so that was my focus. No reason for the guys to opt out of dating.
You only get screwed over in marriage if you are not very smart. Smart guys who plan ahead rarely get screwed over in marriage.
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