Will more men go their own way in the near future? (attracted, reasons)

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by rego00123

The only "offical" stance for the MGTOW movement is to not allow the female moment to define the male aspect of rights and the affects "traditional" lifestyles and laws affect males.

Anything outside of that is splinter movements that have taken the base and modified and molded it to their own needs and desires.

Much like every social and gender movement has happen when so open ended in its statment of intent. It's free for those who would to personally interperate what they will from it, even if they have alternative or "bad" motivations/intentions for doing so

Do you consider yourself to be part of the movement?

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by sylvianfisher

Well, I did not mean to be cryptic in saying 'No'. I thought I was being succinct and was avoiding over-answering. My answer to your question truly is No.

There is no MGTOW structure so there is no specific party line, other than the major emphasis to NOT get married. Do not marry. Do not cohabitate. Do not impregnate. Those things have gotchas that force a man to forfeit aspects/desires of his life that end up going forever unexplored, to adopt the, ahem, more limiting lifestyle of the woman. The old saying, marriage is for women. Not every guy is suited for marriage and what he gave up for it. To me, MGTOW is saying that too many guys are not suited for marriage but go that route because of what they are told they will get, but later do not like it because of what they ended up getting. Then, extrication from marriage is another ugly and costly hurdle, where divorce laws are purposely like they are. These guys should never have gotten married without first knowing what to expect. I am carefully avoiding details here. I'll leave that for some other MGTOW advocate here who still has his passion to spell it all out. I don't want to ignite with specifics that folks will require me to defend, but just want to give an overview. I'm hoping that will work for you.

My phrase "decay of women" was what came to mind when I was typing out that answer and is pretty inflammatory, isn't it? Yikes. Well, I can only observe what others have said about women today. I do not date women anymore. That ship has sailed. So, please know that what I might say here is my interpretation of what I have read from others.

What I read is that women (in the dating scene, I guess) do not know what they want, say they want good guys but look past those guys to the alpha males (the ancient complaint, yes?). They say that women want guys but then will coldly trade up. They see women acting more like sl*ts but these women consider this to be liberation. That women confuse sexual display with equality, forsaking good measure. That women have sex at hello but expect commitment. Why buy the cow when the milk is free, my grandmother used to say. Her generation knew something. That marriage is really a device women use to get cash and prizes from the man. That women do not love the man but love the idea of him and therefore he as an individual becomes replaceable, disposable, an object to her, a means to an end. Many men say they did not actually feel loved, but utilized.

I'm sure anything I've said here can be annihilated by someone with the penchant for annihilation but I'll end this reply for now lest I turn this into some weird Ted Kaczynski manifesto.

Thank you.

I guess there are a number of things that make me grateful for the MGTOW thingy. Yes, we don't want you! Marriage and dating are not financial transactions about paying for sex with marriage. Sisters are doing it for themselves and don't need a man's money. Those among us worth having want a man's love. And to be a lovable man, you have to understand that a woman is a person, not a sex toy for purchase. Of course there are gold diggers. But the attitude that this is what women are is an attitude that makes one highly unappealing.

[sylvianfisher]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

It's interesting how adamant you are that MGTOW has no party line or official stance, yet your post is entirely AWALT. I don't ascribe to the idea that any group "ALT." To me that's simple prejudice.

Ok.

Maybe I do keep emphasizing that MGTOW is no organization, but I can never know who saw me already say that in a prior thread. I can stop saying that moving forward, if saying it is unhelpful.

Yes, one will see (much) more AWALT than NAWALT overall. I remember thinking that when I explained the terms but I forgot to say it.

Thank you.

[sylvianfisher]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

I guess there are a number of things that make me grateful for the MGTOW thingy. Yes, we don't want you! Marriage and dating are not financial transactions about paying for sex with marriage. Sisters are doing it for themselves and don't need a man's money. Those among us worth having want a man's love. And to be a lovable man, you have to understand that a woman is a person, not a sex toy for purchase. Of course there are gold diggers. But the attitude that this is what women are is an attitude that makes one highly unappealing.

I agree, women should not want men who don't want them. But, guess what, women want the alpha men who don't want these women but just want to use them. Mixed messages from women. Men see this.

I can only say that you are witnessing a movement, a process, of men who are manifesting as they process. Of course you will not like what you see, anymore than men like to see that hashtag killallmen and the other such ideas going around. HeforShe but no SheforHe or BothforBoth. Men see this.

Women say they don't need a man's money, but every unmarried mother who receives child support needs a man's money. So tell the courts that women do not need a man's money. Please tell them. Ask your friends to do the same. Advocate to make your statement come true.

[JustJulia]

Originally Posted by sylvianfisher

Ok.

Maybe I do keep emphasizing that MGTOW is no organization, but I can never know who saw me already say that in a prior thread. I can stop saying that moving forward, if saying it is unhelpful.

Yes, one will see more AWALT than NAWALT overall. I remember thinking that when I explained the terms but I forgot to say it.

Thank you.

That doesn't give them much of a leg to stand on when they object to characterizations they find unflattering or unfair.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

It's interesting how adamant you are that MGTOW has no party line or official stance, yet your post is entirely AWALT. I don't ascribe to the idea that any group "ALT." To me that's simple prejudice.

There is no official stance, but what YOU say about it is wrong. /lol

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by rego00123

The only "offical" stance for the MGTOW movement is to not allow the female moment to define the male aspect of rights and the affects "traditional" lifestyles and laws that dealt with both sexes not reflecting equally on to men.

Are you their leader? You are giving the "official" stance so you must be in charge.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by sylvianfisher

I agree, women should not want men who don't want them. But, guess what, women want the alpha men who don't want these women but just want to use them. Mixed messages from women. Men see this.

I can only say that you are witnessing a movement, a process, of men who are manifesting as they process. Of course you will not like what you see, anymore than men like to see that hashtag killallmen and the other such ideas going around. HeforShe but no SheforHe or BothforBoth. Men see this.

Women say they don't need a man's money, but every unmarried mother who receives child support needs a man's money. So tell the courts that women do not need a man's money. Please tell them. Ask your friends to do the same. Advocate to make your statement come true.

It's a false premise to apply this to a whole gender. It's just ridiculous. Does it happen? Sure.

I can give you a bunch of stereotypes for men too.

But I am an intelligent adult. I know it is stupid to apply stereotypes to a whole group.

Advocate your own cause. Sheesh. Telling other people to do it for you.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by sylvianfisher

I agree, women should not want men who don't want them. But, guess what, women want the alpha men who don't want these women but just want to use them. Mixed messages from women. Men see this.

This is the bit you miss. This is the important bit. Women are not some monolithic unit. We are PEOPLE. As such, we want different things. I married a PERSON not an "alpha male".

Women say they don't need a man's money, but every unmarried mother who receives child support needs a man's money. So tell the courts that women do not need a man's money. Please tell them. Ask your friends to do the same. Advocate to make your statement come true.

Do men not have a responsibility to raise their kids? What does this have to do with a WOMAN needing money? A kid can always use money. College, clothes... stuff like that.

[rego00123]

Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76

Do you consider yourself to be part of the movement?

No.

I do not affiliate myself with any specific movement. Doing so means I am effectively "picking sides"
I want equality and equal change for all. I want exploration of all sides and people to stop feeling the need to equate their gender as their exception in life.

I hate fanaticism that follows any movement and what it creates, It ruins any discussion or good that could come from exploring the concerns and questions people have and makes it nothing but a bunch of name calling and bullied tactics instead of what should come from asking questions that conflict creates.

The only thing I can identify with in this movement is advocating men understand what they are doing in all aspects when they decide to involve themselves with someone (just as I would a woman in the opposite position) and not feel the need to follow social pressures to live any way. Actually question and explore instead of going with the flow.

The hate against another group of people is stupid and self defeating and not what the original intention was, but has now been cemented as what this moment is. I get it, I understand your average joe only sees what they hear and all people have heard is the people shouting the loudest. Everyone else has no need to shout anything, they are simply just living life avoiding the things they do not feel are right for them like we all do for our own personal reasons.

I do accept their are inconsistencies (on both sides) that need to be addressed...specially biases leading to unfair "human" treatment, but that will take time and change. I don't feel that time is now with how at war everyone still is trying to prove how the way they feel is the right way to feel and the constant jockeying for one upping each other.

I see good things in both the male and female movements that we as people just need to come together on if real equal treatment is what we desire, but their is so much hatred and ego being flung around that nobody "wants" to listen to each other to find wherever that middle ground for all may exist

Originally Posted by Mikala43

Are you their leader? You are giving the "official" stance so you must be in charge.

Lol no.

The "offical" stance was/is just a statment of intent.
People have done with that what they have see fit to champion their own desires

It is in affect nothing more than an anti movement focused on asking questions and not allowing yourself to be compromised. It had nothing to do with hating anyone or wanting to inflict pain on people.

The people who wish that are people who would do so regardless of their stance on where they feel their gender slots them in life.

Just as I wouldn't call everyone who carries a gun a murderer, I wouldn't call everyone who wants to champion gender rights a radical