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I had a discussion with my partner about this the other night. We determined very early on that we are compatible in our feelings about "who should do what and when". This conversation went more into the "why" of it all.
(To set the stage- this conversation occurred after I had prepared our dinner and cleaned the kitchen while he was comfortably ensconced on his recliner.)
As with a lot of conversations of this sort that deal with personal values and beliefs, the answer to the question of "why?" was answered quite simply- because it's what we want to do. We have both gone through the stages of doing what we think society expects. (Not only "society in general", but also our families and close friends.) At the end of it, we both have determined that, in respect to our intimate relationships, that "society" can go screw itself. Honestly, that's said with the utmost of respect. Others can do what they want to do, they can feed into whatever expectations they want to feed into, it doesn't (and shouldn't) affect what we do in our own lives.
When I make dinner for the two of us, I don't expect that he will help with the dishes- that all has to be empirically "fair". The same principle is true for us in the case of "he (or she) who asks pays". If others wish to handle things differently, that's completely their right and choice- it just means that we wouldn't be compatible as partners.
If we (the general "we") start speaking about "should" and "should not" when it comes to personal relationships, we need to make sure that we are competent to speak for all people. IMO, the sooner we realize that this is impossible, and life is far easier when we adopt a live and let live attitude, the better.
Well, all of that really boils down to, "do what works for you", which is good advice for anybody. I don't think anybody (whose opinions I care about) really thinks what all couples "should" or "shouldn't" do, and that includes those who would choose to base their LTR's on societal expectations....which is just another way of saying, "people ultimately do what works for them anyway".
It just so happens that if, "what works for us" is unpopular compared to the societal expectation, it makes it a bit harder to find. (I know, I know, and water is wet).
I've mentioned it, but I pay for my dates. Rarely because I enjoy it, but more often because I'm interested in remaining competitive. After a date or two, I'll know if she's the kind of woman whose mindset falls in line with my own, and that will be a big factor in warranting whether or not she gets a second or third date, at which point we can go back to, "what works for us".
Should she do things that make her stand out in a good way or a bad way?
Sure, and despite what you may like to believe...she does.
She agonizes over what she'll wear. She diets herself into fainting spells and works out until her legs are Jell-O and still cries secretly because her "thighs are so fat". She takes a hundred selfies at all angles, lookingf for the one that's going to make her appear her sexiest, fun-est, most intriguing best. She reads fashion magazines. She reads relationship magazines. She reads relationship books. She surreptitiously checks out other girls, agonizing whether she stacks up and being fully aware of in which ways she just doesn't, and perhaps never will. She calls her mother, her sister and her best friend for help on what to say, what to do for "this one guy" she can't quite "figure out." She tries to be funny. She tries to be engaging. She tries to be mysterious. She tries to be sexy but not slutty. Educated but not pretentious. Bright but not boring. Available but not TOO available. She tries to be likeable. Wantable. She puts on the makeup. She gets the correct haircut (and for the date, deep conditions, blow-dries and flat irons it into whimpering submission...LOOK PERFECT, dammit).
And on and on and on and on and on...
...for you. To impress you.
"Should" she do things that make her stand out? I don't know...that's a fairly philosophical question. DOES she? Nine times out of ten and for the majority of her adult life, yes.
So can we can all the "women just have to sit there and have a vagina and they can catch the MOST AMAZING guy" bit? Stop the self-pity. No, you DON'T do all the work trying to "be awesome" or whatever in order to attract the opposite sex. Get off it. It's not just deliberately obtuse, it's getting boring. Find some other ridiculousness to accuse women of in the constant quest around here to prove how hard life is for men and how easy it is for women. Just grow up already.
sure, and despite what you may like to believe...she does.
She agonizes over what she'll wear. She diets herself into fainting spells and works out until her legs are jell-o and still cries secretly because her "thighs are so fat". She takes a hundred selfies at all angles, lookingf for the one that's going to make her appear her sexiest, fun-est, most intriguing best. She reads fashion magazines. She reads relationship magazines. She reads relationship books. She surreptitiously checks out other girls, agonizing whether she stacks up and being fully aware of in which ways she just doesn't, and perhaps never will. She calls her mother, her sister and her best friend for help on what to say, what to do for "this one guy" she can't quite "figure out." she tries to be funny. She tries to be engaging. She tries to be mysterious. She tries to be sexy but not slutty. Educated but not pretentious. Bright but not boring. Available but not too available. She tries to be likeable. Wantable. She puts on the makeup. She gets the correct haircut (and for the date, deep conditions, blow-dries and flat irons it into whimpering submission...look perfect, dammit).
And on and on and on and on and on...
...for you. To impress you.
"should" she do things that make her stand out? I don't know...that's a fairly philosophical question. Does she? Nine times out of ten and for the majority of her adult life, yes.
So can we can all the "women just have to sit there and have a vagina and they can catch the most amazing guy" bit? Stop the self-pity. No, you don't do all the work trying to "be awesome" or whatever in order to attract the opposite sex. Get off it. It's not just deliberately obtuse, it's getting boring. Find some other ridiculousness to accuse women of in the constant quest around here to prove how hard life is for men and how easy it is for women. Just grow up already.
He gets to mate with the cute girl penguin. That's basically what it all comes down to, supply and demand.
And that's sort of my point. If you want penguin sex, which is really pretty male penguin centered, then I'll give you (universal you=woman) a pebble and you let me have my way. But these days don't women want a mutually satisfying experience that's worth a lot more to BOTH parties than a pebble or the price of a meal? Just sayin.
Sure, and despite what you may like to believe...she does.
She agonizes over what she'll wear. She diets herself into fainting spells and works out until her legs are Jell-O and still cries secretly because her "thighs are so fat". She takes a hundred selfies at all angles, lookingf for the one that's going to make her appear her sexiest, fun-est, most intriguing best. She reads fashion magazines. She reads relationship magazines. She reads relationship books. She surreptitiously checks out other girls, agonizing whether she stacks up and being fully aware of in which ways she just doesn't, and perhaps never will. She calls her mother, her sister and her best friend for help on what to say, what to do for "this one guy" she can't quite "figure out." She tries to be funny. She tries to be engaging. She tries to be mysterious. She tries to be sexy but not slutty. Educated but not pretentious. Bright but not boring. Available but not TOO available. She tries to be likeable. Wantable. She puts on the makeup. She gets the correct haircut (and for the date, deep conditions, blow-dries and flat irons it into whimpering submission...LOOK PERFECT, dammit).
And on and on and on and on and on...
...for you. To impress you.
"Should" she do things that make her stand out? I don't know...that's a fairly philosophical question. DOES she? Nine times out of ten and for the majority of her adult life, yes.
So can we can all the "women just have to sit there and have a vagina and they can catch the MOST AMAZING guy" bit? Stop the self-pity. No, you DON'T do all the work trying to "be awesome" or whatever in order to attract the opposite sex. Get off it. It's not just deliberately obtuse, it's getting boring. Find some other ridiculousness to accuse women of in the constant quest around here to prove how hard life is for men and how easy it is for women. Just grow up already.
Since you pulled my quote, It would appear that this is directed at me. As someone who is decidedly not a part of the "women just have to sit there ..........." school of thought, your response confuses me. If it is directed at me in particular, then I kind of need to defend myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong and if your frustration is more general.
Since you pulled my quote, It would appear that this is directed at me. As someone who is decidedly not a part of the "women just have to sit there ..........." school of thought, your response confuses me. If it is directed at me in particular, then I kind of need to defend myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong and if your frustration is more general.
I have the feeling that it started off as a response to your post and then sort of veered, as I didn't see the above in your posts, either. I also have a variety of responses that are, well....long. So either I'll type them all out later, save them for PM, or forget completely
I have the feeling that it started off as a response to your post and then sort of veered, as I didn't see the above in your posts, either. I also have a variety of responses that are, well....long. So either I'll type them all out later, save them for PM, or forget completely
That's why I didn't really respond. I kind of enjoy this conversation, but if I'm pi$$ing people off to that extent, especially someone who is pretty stable here, then I need to rethink. Or fire back. "shrugs"
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