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What about the woman who are new to dating, their old prince charming dumped them, or even the woman who are looking for a man but no man has made the move yet?
If the woman is in decent shape (doesn't have to be great shape) and doesn't have kids then she won't be on the market very long unless she is very picky.
If the woman is fat and/or has a kid(s) then they could be on the market for a long time depending how picky they are and from my experience, even many of those women tend to be picky.
Of the women acquaintances that I know, the only single ones are the ones who are at least 30 lbs overweight.
The handful that I know who are in at least decent shape (2 were also single mothers) are all in relationships.
The bottom line is that these days it seems like even finding a halfway decent-looking single woman who is in decent (not great) shape and who doesn't already have a kid(s) is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Bearsdad and Wanderlust76, you guys are absolutely right and unfortunately a good number of women on this site seem to be in denial that women have it a lot easier.
Even very overweight women and women with what many men would deem "baggage" in terms of being single mothers with multiple kids don't seem to have trouble finding a decent guy anymore because of online dating.
Even if you have one physical trait that a woman finds unattractive such as being on the short side, having the wrong hair color or not having hair at all in the case of bald guys can hinder you considerably if you try online dating whereas men seem more apt to overlook a woman's flaws even if they have a lot of baggage.
So here's a crazy plan (just crazy enough to work…..): If online dating is so slanted towards women, why not try meeting women in real life? My experience has been that online dating has made meeting women in real life easier because there are so many guys that would rather hide behind their keyboards, lie about their height, and whine because they can't get a woman. So what I've found is that when you go up and start a pleasant conversation it's usually well received.
Bearsdad and Wanderlust76, you guys are absolutely right and unfortunately a good number of women on this site seem to be in denial that women have it a lot easier.
Oh, I absolutely admit I had it easier than men, even "top" men, or even most people. I'm not oblivious to that. I met my husband on OKC, and the two others I had 6+ month relationships with, and the several others I had 3+ dates with I met either on OKC or PoF. Match typically resulted in one-and-done dates. I didn't think it was worth the expense since there was overlap of members between all dating sites.
My husband met his two previous exes on OKC, and a few others from other sites, and while he admits he had far better success than most (explored OLD on and off for 9 years), I had better "success" by many standards. My husband received messages, but they were infrequent most times, and he's a very good-looking guy, the kind Bitter Boys claim get all the women 'cause he's tall, good with people (I say he's charming in a geeky and introverted sort of way) and good-looking. But that wasn't the case, even to my surprise. He was very, very selective, so that played a huge role in his meeting so few women. In 9 years he met maybe ten women, whereas I met over 60 men in the course of two and a half years. So, yeah, I had better success than him and every other man I dated, even my exH, who really hated the OLD experience. He probably shares the typical attitude expressed in this and other threads.
But, there are many men who are successful, and I have friends who met their husbands on dating sites.
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Even very overweight women and women with what many men would deem "baggage" in terms of being single mothers with multiple kids don't seem to have trouble finding a decent guy anymore because of online dating.
I'm not so sure about that. What makes you say these are decent guys? What's a decent guy? The women I know who found love as a result of online dating are awesome women. There's nothing shady about them.
Women (or people) with "baggage" and single mothers have been able to find partners long before dating sites became mainstream. It isn't online dating's fault, or these women, for your lack of success. Dating sites developed an efficient, effective and convenient way for people to interact, meet, etc., that would otherwise be impossible or highly unlikely. It presented people with options beyond their immediate pool of singles, their close social circle, because not everyone wants to date someone in their social circle, cares to date someone from high school or college, and many avoid dating co-workers, are uninterested in looking for a partner at church or identifies as nonreligious, and perhaps doesn't buy into the modern Disney fairy tale of bumping into one's Great Love/Prince Charming/Fair Maiden in the Trader Joe's produce isle.
Nor do all available men and women view bars and clubs as preferred methods for meeting a compatible match. And some people may have preferences that are best suited for other methods of meeting people that make the process more efficient. So, you know, options.
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Even if you have one physical trait that a woman finds unattractive such as being on the short side, having the wrong hair color or not having hair at all in the case of bald guys can hinder you considerably if you try online dating whereas men seem more apt to overlook a woman's flaws even if they have a lot of baggage.
Perhaps in some cases, or many cases, but the same could be same about a lot of men preferring HWP women. I'm 5'9", and I preferred men who were my height and taller, but found myself with dates, dozens, who were shorter. There was one guy I really liked who is 5'8", and his height was not an issue in the long run. The first guy I started dating more seriously is what most would consider average-looking. He was 41 and his hair was noticeably thinning, and he was also 20 lbs overweight by his own admission. The very first man I met was 40+ lbs overweight, but not at all unattractive, though he is 6'4". The notion that "women" reject men for such things is silly. The women I know who met their husbands online, their husbands are average-looking or decently attractive a la Chris Pratt pre-Star Lord. Some are shorter than average, others overweight, or whatever. They're not Idris Elba or Gerard Butler, is what I'm saying.
How many times have we heard the "I'm a great guy" saw from the same dudes who end up talking about how they're sick of fatties and single mothers who spread their legs (have heard that phrase about a bajillion times around here) for EVerybody ALL the time gold-digging their way to the top while practicing double-standards despite their butch feminist stance, ZOMG and yadda yadda?
"Decent" guys often out themselves as anything but. A truly good guy never actually has to say he's good. You just know he's a decent fellow. He does too. He doesn't need to advertise it. To me it's a HUGE red flag when a guy describes himself as "a good guy" or "a decent guy." I wish it weren't, but if I had a nickel for every time a self-described great guy eventually launched into a diatribe about how feminism has caused ugly fatties to have the upper hand while they're all sleeping around getting sores and herpes and getting abortions willy-nilly and yadda yadda, meanwhile trying to dig money out of their multiple baby-daddies, I'd be a multi-billionaire.
Newsflash. An ACTUALLY good/great guy (personality-wise; anyone can look around and see that it's NOT the best-looking guys alone who get the women, I mean come on now) isn't around every single corner and isn't defined, by most women, as some dude who has a job and has never been to jail, and who does not appear to have any actively open suspicious sores. It takes a little more than that (I know, picky, picky). Yes, a huge portion of OLD approaches will be from very, very unsavory choices, and not because "women are picky," either. D-pics, married guys, nearly-illiterate guys, 25-years-older guys when you have your preferences set to a few years either way, cold "want to sleep with me?" approaches...the list goes on, and we all know it does.
So chill. Want somebody you consider "better" in some way? Then YOU be better, preferably in the same way. This goes for both men and women. Want to continue to be nasty, misogynistic (or misandrist), sloppy, none-too-groomed narrow-minded individual, have the personality of a celery stalk, the grammar skills of a second grader (and a lazy one at that) but have a supermodel or Ken doll come at you? Not happening. End of story.
Greater than HALF of all adults in the U.S. at any given time are married. HALF. That leaves out the whole "top 20%" theory right there, so can we finally throw that one in the trash? These people are AVERAGE, in both numbers and looks/career/personality. (Hence the term "average.") No, women do not demand Ken dolls, or HALF OF US wouldn't BE MARRIED. No, women don't unilaterally reject men based on "one physical flaw," or NONE OF US except George Clooney's wife would BE MARRIED. Grow up, figure out what it is that's repelling women from you, and go from there.
And please let's not go the "that's because women eventually feel their bio clock ticking and go for the ugly dude" route, because in that case at any given time those "desperate" women are currently out there, yet you're still striking out. So that doesn't work either. Figure out what the heck you're doing to make the women run like the wind in the opposite direction. HINT: It PROBABLY ISN'T YOUR HAIR.
If the woman is in decent shape (doesn't have to be great shape) and doesn't have kids then she won't be on the market very long unless she is very picky.
If the woman is fat and/or has a kid(s) then they could be on the market for a long time depending how picky they are and from my experience, even many of those women tend to be picky.
Of the women acquaintances that I know, the only single ones are the ones who are at least 30 lbs overweight.
The handful that I know who are in at least decent shape (2 were also single mothers) are all in relationships.
The bottom line is that these days it seems like even finding a halfway decent-looking single woman who is in decent (not great) shape and who doesn't already have a kid(s) is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Uh, you're going to have a tough time with this if you're over, say, 35, because a lot of women will have been married by their late 20s in many areas. For those in rural or conservative areas, married shortly after high school or college, and often divorced with children by mid-30s. If fit and childless are top priority for the over 35 crowd, metro cities will typically have singles who fit this bill.
Something bugging me about this turn of conversation that I don't get. There are roughly as many men as women in all age groups except the very young where there are more male children and the very old where there are more elderly women.
So if there are all these men out there who can't get a date doesn't it also mean there are about an equal number of women?
I'm in a relationship but I spent a couple of years on and off just dating and not in a relationship. For a while I didn't want a relationship as I healed a broken heart and then it was tough to just find someone who was a good match. Some weekends I have two or three dates lined up, but then there would be long stretches of months where I had no dates. It was feast or famine.
Thing is I didn't care about the famine. I'm not the type who needs to be in a relationship. I rather be single and wait for a man who is a good fit. The end result is I found a man who is a great fit! Maybe I'm picky and that's why I was single a lot, but why shouldn't I be? And I'd say everyone should be. You aren't talking about picking out a meal on a menu or a movie for a weekend. You are picking a human being to be part of one unit with you. The other half of the couple you are in.
One last thought. This isn't all women have it easier and all men have it harder. People are individuals. I'm sure there are a lot of men out there who have it harder than me when it comes to dating. And there are a lot of men who have it easier. And there are women too who have it easier and harder. It isn't a neat little division between men and women.
Point is whoever you are you are most likely in the middle somewhere. There are men and women who have it easier than you and men and women who have it harder than you. You just play with the hand you were delt like the rest of us.
How many times have we heard the "I'm a great guy" saw from the same dudes who end up talking about how they're sick of fatties and single mothers who spread their legs (have heard that phrase about a bajillion times around here) for EVerybody ALL the time gold-digging their way to the top while practicing double-standards despite their butch feminist stance, ZOMG and yadda yadda?
"Decent" guys often out themselves as anything but. A truly good guy never actually has to say he's good. You just know he's a decent fellow. He does too. He doesn't need to advertise it. To me it's a HUGE red flag when a guy describes himself as "a good guy" or "a decent guy." I wish it weren't, but if I had a nickel for every time a self-described great guy eventually launched into a diatribe about how feminism has caused ugly fatties to have the upper hand while they're all sleeping around getting sores and herpes and getting abortions willy-nilly and yadda yadda, meanwhile trying to dig money out of their multiple baby-daddies, I'd be a multi-billionaire.
Newsflash. An ACTUALLY good/great guy (personality-wise; anyone can look around and see that it's NOT the best-looking guys alone who get the women, I mean come on now) isn't around every single corner and isn't defined, by most women, as some dude who has a job and has never been to jail, and who does not appear to have any actively open suspicious sores. It takes a little more than that (I know, picky, picky). Yes, a huge portion of OLD approaches will be from very, very unsavory choices, and not because "women are picky," either. D-pics, married guys, nearly-illiterate guys, 25-years-older guys when you have your preferences set to a few years either way, cold "want to sleep with me?" approaches...the list goes on, and we all know it does.
This. I totally roll my eyes at "decent guy" and "nice guy." This looks like what, exactly? You occasionally open a door for an elderly woman, call your mother every other Sunday, "only" ***** about evil wimmenz a couple times a day, or smiles when greeted by your server at a restaurant? And let me guess, a "nice catch" combines these fabulous traits with things like:
Pays bills
Has a good job
Looks good
Nice personality... what does this mean?
Swagger?
"Good morals and values"
Yes, there are women out there who get overlooked entirely, and repeatedly. They don't even get glanced at long enough by any given guy for him to consciously think "ugly...move on" or "old, move on" or "no boobs, move on," so he doesn't register that they're actually out there (i.e. - that they even exist) and instead, the guy believes ALL women have men flocking...because the women he is looking at have the men flocking.
This. I totally roll my eyes at "decent guy" and "nice guy." This looks like what, exactly? You occasionally open a door for an elderly woman, call your mother every other Sunday, "only" ***** about evil wimmenz a couple times a day, or smiles when greeted by your server at a restaurant? And let me guess, a "nice catch" combines these fabulous traits with things like:
Pays bills
Has a good job
Looks good
Nice personality... what does this mean?
Swagger?
"Good morals and values"
Something like this?
I would say those, less "looks good" and "swagger." The constant refrain thrown at every woman is "so-and-so may be a diamond in the rough" (or whatever the equivalent is today, LOL, that's a pretty old-fashioned saying but I heard it about a trillion times as a teen or 20-something). We should "give him a chance."
So we're supposed to take just pays bills, has a good job and "good morals" which may or may not conflict with ours (i.e. I wouldn't consider an anti-choice person a person with "good morals" necessarily, but many people might) and feel we've gotten a great guy. (LOL, I'd love to see the guy who'd be satisfied with "she doesn't look like much, but she has a decent job, pays her bills and has morals." But I digress.)
As for personality: Nice personality = doesn't get drunk and start the beatinz.
Yes, there are women out there who get overlooked entirely, and repeatedly. They don't even get glanced at long enough by any given guy for him to consciously think "ugly...move on" or "old, move on" or "no boobs, move on," so he doesn't register that they're actually out there (i.e. - that they even exist) and instead, the guy believes ALL women have men flocking...because the women he is looking at have the men flocking.
It's that fantasy that some dudes have that every woman gets pounced on every day, several times a day and has ever so many eligible suitors to choose from. Is that the reality for some women? Sure. Most women? Not so much. Plenty of women go to work and run errands and go home with nary a glance from a "decent guy". Or maybe she's getting glanced at, but if it doesn't lead to a conversation or a date, the result is the same--she's watching Kimmie Schmidt by herself with a pizza.
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