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Old 06-28-2016, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,268,292 times
Reputation: 53065

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
However, I would hope that SAH isn't about money.
I would hope so, too.

But with all these outraged posts (coming, ironically, from men with neither marriages nor children ) noting that stay-at-home-mother don't earn their keep and contribute nothing of value to the household, apparently, it's okay to make it all about money?

The "What kind of mother would I be had I chosen to stay home with my kids," thought is an interesting one, though, given how many parents ask the question, "what kind of parent world I be had I not chosen to stay home with my kids?"

Everybody needs to make the choices that work best for them and their families. If two spouses aren't on the same page, there, they have zero business having kids. And it's not anybody else's business anyway.
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:28 PM
 
109 posts, read 65,223 times
Reputation: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Or you could make it simple.

Is 25% of your gross income (coming out of the net you bring home, obviously) considerable, or no great shakes?

Get out your budget spreadsheets right now, hack 25% of YOUR GROSS INCOME off THE ACTUAL INCOME YOU HAVE AVAILABLE TO SPEND (net), and you tell us.
What point are you trying to make here? I'd be okay with a 25% cut. Some others would be too, some wouldn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Simple. Let us know how things work out.

OH, whoopsie! Then double that. How do I keep forgetting that...? The average mother has 2.4 children. Let's round that down to two just to be nice. So yeah, that 25%? You need to double it. I'm sure even you can figure that math?
So what's the conclusion? At median income (35-40k) with 2 kids, both partners give about the same financial value in a relationship if one works and one does not assuming that the kids are under school age? That's a pretty specific scenario, and one that spans about 1/3 of a child's time growing up (age 0 to 6).
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:39 PM
 
Location: 🇬🇧 In jolly old London! 🇬🇧
15,675 posts, read 11,454,573 times
Reputation: 12547
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
From birth to 5 years of age (age cut off is in October). In some places, it goes on to age 6 because kindergarten is 1/2 day only.

Even after they enter public school, there is also after school care. This is due to children getting off earlier than the typical work day. My eldest gets off the bus at 3:30pm. My wife is SAHM so we take in some of the children in the neighborhood to help neighbors save some money. If not, they would pay approximately $400/per month per child for after school care that goes until 6-7pm.


Child care went through some heavy regulation a decade or so ago. On one hand it is good for the children's well being. On the other hand the regulations put into place requirements (such as college degrees, certifications, a teacher on staff..etc) that ended up rising the cost of day care. On top of that, children are not allowed home alone until age of 13... again drove child care up. When I was child, my father said that daycare was subsidized to the point it was free for some lower income families. I was a latchkey kid since the age of 8 or 9, which is illegal now and can get parents into major trouble if reported.
Sorry just got this but thank you for a great answer

But It really would add up mate.....

Honestly I've got lots of respect for parents anyway but in the US it seems it's cost a fortune just for things that are normally a given ...

Really it's a huge thumbs up for the amount of effort and just how hard you have to work ( job ) in order to keep it up
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,788,964 times
Reputation: 11115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I didn't neglect my kids. I worked to support them. You know, like fathers do. I was there for my kids when I was home. According to the OP this woman is choosing to not spend time with her kids. She'd rather shop with friends. If this were a once in a while I need a break thing I doubt he'd be complaining about it here. It sounds chronic. This isn't an issue of tearing other women apart. It's pointing out the obvious. This woman is checking out. She's checked out of the marriage and of motherhood. She's positioning herself to move on. There is something very wrong when you aren't spending time with your kids especially when you're a SAHM. What's the point of SAH if you're not taking care of the kids?


And you're wrong. Men do harp on men who don't live up to their role as fathers. Just not usually on bulletin boards from what I've seen. My dh has a lot to say about fathers who aren't there for their families. Most men do but men tend to talk about such things less than women do. We are more verbal.
Uh, ya kinda missed my point. My point was that, just as YOU choose to judge the OP's wife's absence from the home, someone else could very easily choose to judge YOUR absence. The reason why you're not home doesn't matter. All that matters is that you're NOT there.

There are people out there who would suggest that, if you MUST work for economic reasons (ie, you can't live on your husband's salary, and your family will be living on the street without YOUR income), then it is YOUR responsibility, as the kids' mother, to at least always be there when they're home. You should schedule YOUR work around them. If you can't do that in your current job, then you need to find another job. And you would find another job if you really cared about your kids.


In fact, maybe that's why you DO choose to keep your job. Because you're checking out of your marriage and motherhood. YOU'RE positioning YOURSELF to leave...

Ya see? See how easy that is? It's a piece of cake. Doesn't take any critical thinking abilities; in fact, it doesn't take much thought at all. It's pretty annoying to be judged by people who know NOTHING about you, or what's going on in your life, or what kind of a person you are, or your reasons for doing what you do. Isn't it?

And, no, I'm NOT wrong. Men rarely harp on men the way women routinely harp on women. They're simply not as petty, self-righteous, or sanctimonious. Men don't think that what other men do is any of their business; women absolutely think what other women do is theirs. Men only care if other men abandon their families entirely, because that means that they could, theoretically, end up footing the bill for the deadbeat's kids.

Other than that, I've yet to ever a hear a guy say about another guy, "WHY is he out at the golf course/staying late at work/playing basketball/travelling for work/going to hockey games/at the bar having a beer with his friends? He should be home with his family! The bastard! He's not living up to his duties! He's got another woman! He's fixing to leave!"

Yeah, I know. It's hilarious just thinking about a guy doing that. Many women, though, jump to premature, thoughtless conclusions like that all the time.
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:36 AM
 
19 posts, read 16,480 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Uh, ya kinda missed my point. My point was that, just as YOU choose to judge the OP's wife's absence from the home, someone else could very easily choose to judge YOUR absence. The reason why you're not home doesn't matter. All that matters is that you're NOT there.

There are people out there who would suggest that, if you MUST work for economic reasons (ie, you can't live on your husband's salary, and your family will be living on the street without YOUR income), then it is YOUR responsibility, as the kids' mother, to at least always be there when they're home. You should schedule YOUR work around them. If you can't do that in your current job, then you need to find another job. And you would find another job if you really cared about your kids.


In fact, maybe that's why you DO choose to keep your job. Because you're checking out of your marriage and motherhood. YOU'RE positioning YOURSELF to leave...

Ya see? See how easy that is? It's a piece of cake. Doesn't take any critical thinking abilities; in fact, it doesn't take much thought at all. It's pretty annoying to be judged by people who know NOTHING about you, or what's going on in your life, or what kind of a person you are, or your reasons for doing what you do. Isn't it?

And, no, I'm NOT wrong. Men rarely harp on men the way women routinely harp on women. They're simply not as petty, self-righteous, or sanctimonious. Men don't think that what other men do is any of their business; women absolutely think what other women do is theirs. Men only care if other men abandon their families entirely, because that means that they could, theoretically, end up footing the bill for the deadbeat's kids.

Other than that, I've yet to ever a hear a guy say about another guy, "WHY is he out at the golf course/staying late at work/playing basketball/travelling for work/going to hockey games/at the bar having a beer with his friends? He should be home with his family! The bastard! He's not living up to his duties! He's got another woman! He's fixing to leave!"

Yeah, I know. It's hilarious just thinking about a guy doing that. Many women, though, jump to premature, thoughtless conclusions like that all the time.
So please explain to me how a woman (or man) can both always be there for their kids while at the same time always bring in the income? My husband works very long hours and works a very strenuous job. I pride myself on taking care of being a SAHM and also taking care of my husband.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:43 AM
 
8,924 posts, read 5,574,428 times
Reputation: 12558
Maybe it's time to go to a counselor and see if they can spot anything. If not then you need to tell her the new car has to go, if you are the only income. Take her credit cards and give her an allowance. She doesn't need to be out shopping if she's not bringing in any money. Let her be a lady of leisure on her dime.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:50 AM
 
1,636 posts, read 3,152,613 times
Reputation: 2747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annebolsen View Post
So please explain to me how a woman (or man) can both always be there for their kids while at the same time always bring in the income? My husband works very long hours and works a very strenuous job. I pride myself on taking care of being a SAHM and also taking care of my husband.
I think newdixiegirl was making a point that it is very easy to judge. I don't think they were judging in the way you are seeing it, just pointing out how many could do so.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,788,964 times
Reputation: 11115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annebolsen View Post
So please explain to me how a woman (or man) can both always be there for their kids while at the same time always bring in the income? My husband works very long hours and works a very strenuous job. I pride myself on taking care of being a SAHM and also taking care of my husband.


Former SAHM and now working mom here. This is the second time you've said I've suggested this. I haven't. I wouldn't. I've already addressed this with you. Read more carefully.

My point in that post is that women on this thread who've thought up ways to discredit the OP's wife -- and who perhaps do the same to other women IRL -- are not immune to unfair criticism themselves.

People in glass houses...
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:52 AM
 
1,636 posts, read 3,152,613 times
Reputation: 2747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominftl View Post
Maybe it's time to go to a counselor and see if they can spot anything. If not then you need to tell her the new car has to go, if you are the only income. Take her credit cards and give her an allowance. She doesn't need to be out shopping if she's not bringing in any money. Let her be a lady of leisure on her dime.
Yes.

I would be in counseling YESTERDAY. If she refuses, she is not participating in this marriage. You guys need a marriage counselor and a financial advisor to be truthful with you.


Find someone tonight, OP. They aren't cheap, but they are worth it. Go two or three times a week if you have to. You will see pretty quickly if your wife is willing to cooperate.

If she refuses to participate in counseling, I would personally leave and get a good attorney. Make sure your kids are taken care of. I'm sorry you are facing this and hope the best outcome for you and your kids.
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:29 AM
 
Location: NNJ
15,024 posts, read 9,987,129 times
Reputation: 17144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londoncowboy30 View Post
Sorry just got this but thank you for a great answer

But It really would add up mate.....

Honestly I've got lots of respect for parents anyway but in the US it seems it's cost a fortune just for things that are normally a given ...

Really it's a huge thumbs up for the amount of effort and just how hard you have to work ( job ) in order to keep it up
Glad to provide the info.

Yes... having children in the US is obscenely expensive and can be extremely isolating in our society... many single parents, families spread out and disjointed. There is really no support for new parents, lack of services, and lack of parental education.

I think there was a old dated stat somewhere that indicated that the average cost to raise a child from birth to adulthood is about $300k now... and that doesn't even begin factor in the college education. In NJ, there is a debate going on about the disparety among state funding to different school districts. Some of the poorest areas of NJ are getting 28k per child! My wife is a parttimer in one of those poor school districts, it is obvious that the money is being squandered.

At the federal level, funding educational programs is difficult to pass but if you touch social security or medicare funding it is considered political suicide. Remember, children don't have a voice in federal government.

On the medical front, it is all the same. I accrued dehibilitating expenses because my twins were sickly. I had to pull a short term loan in the order of $10k+ in the first year of life just to buy their "special" formula. Health insurance is obscenely expensive.

If you were to ask me the source of alot of our problems? I'd say we've abandoned any notion that the building block of our society is the family unit... we are paying the price.


Sorry.. rant... but you probably know why this issue is so close to heart. The sad truth is that among my circle of friends, we are best equipped to handle it; my children still have a father and mother working together to provide a good environment, I'm a relatively high income earner that can absorbe most of the cost, I am fiscally conservative so our other expenses are low, and my wife is an educator of young children. Its sometimes embarrassing to admit that we are struggling (financially, emotionally, physically, and marital) to my friends who have so much less.

Last edited by usayit; 06-29-2016 at 07:40 AM..
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