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Certainly not. And does one need a STEM degree to work with computers? Certainly not. My husband's major was in communications. Today he is the New Media Marketing manager at his company, where he creates (from scratch, not using Here's Your Template formulae that any 8-year-old could develop a page from) and updates web pages and manages social media for the artists. He is jokingly called "the IT guy" (a la SNL..."MOVE"). We use him at home in the same capacity (poor guy).
I mean if you want to get right down to it.
Does one need any sort of degree at all in order to write well? Some of us don't. I didn't. I worked for many years as a writer and editor (beginning at a global magazine) without any degree at all. In fact, I am only now going back to school; I have written professionally since 1999. Do MOST people need some formal training if their careers will have some form of focus on written communications? Yes. Writing doesn't necessarily come naturally to everyone. There are also technicalities even "naturals" don't realize exist as, again, they haven't been formally, systematically trained. I ran into that more than once on the job and had to cover my azz with some intelligent-sounding response or other before scurrying away to Google.
Either way, what's the logic in disliking snobbery against those who value a degree or specific type of degree, and having one's own snobbery against specific types of degrees? That was really the point I was making.
I'm a firm believer that formal education in reading and writing is critical, in fact, that's why kids need to complete high school before going to college.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,962,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayesian
Analysis in scientific fields is much formal and rigorous, mathematical proof, benchmark, data analysis are valued in academia and industry. Even investment banks recruit bright kids with quantitative skills.
Engineering is all about problem solving, which is a valuable skill that can be transferred to other fields. Why do you make these hypothesis? why this method is better than the other? which is the trade-off? how do you design a system and implement it? how do you formally prove your idea works, how do you empirically test your project? There are a whole bunch of questions to think about.
Hypothesis, methods and results won't show up automatically, they are not given to you. An engineer needs to figure it out, and this is the beautiful part.
The minimalist fashion often translates to usability. The home page of Google cannot be simpler, not because engineers are unable to generate something verbose and convoluted, but customers love simple and elegant design. In the real world, few people are wiling to read lengthy essay, keeping things simple and sweet greatly enhances the readability. Honestly, there are too many liberal arts majors writing long essays only to convince themselves and impress their professors, who else will read the stuff?
Steve Jobs demonstrated iPhone with bulletin points, he never wrote long essay to introduce Apple products to the consumers.
Ok, you have disdain for the liberal arts. Got it. I see their value. As a STEM major (in undergrad) I wish I had a more liberal arts background in my career (which happens to be in a STEM field) as I see the benefit that the skill sets liberal arts fosters. You, seemingly, do not. But if I recall, you're just starting your career... you're like barely 30, so forgive me if I take your perspective with a grain of salt.
Ok, you have disdain for the liberal arts. Got it. I see their value. As a STEM major (in undergrad) I wish I had a more liberal arts background in my career (which happens to be in a STEM field) as I see the benefit that the skill sets liberal arts fosters. You, seemingly, do not. But if I recall, you're just starting your career... you're like barely 30, so forgive me if I take your perspective with a grain of salt.
I took quite a few liberal arts classes when I was in college, I did enjoy anthropology and philosophy most. And I have nothing against humanities. I consider STEM and liberal arts equally important to human civilization.
Without being a liberal arts major, I can still read books in liberal arts and political science. I don't want to give up my STEM education, I guess I have the best of both worlds.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,962,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayesian
I took quite a few liberal arts classes when I was in college, I did enjoy anthropology and philosophy most. And I have nothing against humanities. I consider STEM and liberal arts equally important to human civilization.
Without being a liberal arts major, I can still read books in liberal arts and political science. I don't want to give up my STEM education, I guess I have the best of both worlds.
Without being a STEM major people can still read STEM focused books and work in STEM careers, heck, half the programmers I know weren't STEM majors. So that really is irrelevant, and its completely besides the point.
Without being a liberal arts major, I can still read books in liberal arts and political science. I don't want to give up my STEM education, I guess I have the best of both worlds.
The average high school graduate can also "read books in liberal arts and political science".
People really won't care as long as you are not a box of rocks upstairs and can hold and excel in a career or field you have put a dedication towards.
It's not solely relaint on your formal education how smart or capable you may be.
That said, the "issues" you would face wouldn't be your (lack of) formal education, it would be with your ability to get in doors without it. Which is its own series of problems and a topic on to itself.
What it boils down to is:
You have to walk the walk if you can talk the talk or nobody will ever take you seriously.
Last edited by rego00123; 07-11-2016 at 11:58 AM..
The average high school graduate can also "read books in liberal arts and political science".
Just saying.
Yes indeed.
Anyone can pick up a book that touches on his/her interests (I do it all the time), and not end up with a systematic, thorough investigation of the subject, soup-to-nuts.
That's what school - which includes the parts of the subject you DON'T automatically love, and perhaps some points you never knew existed - does.
That's not to say there's no value in doing one's own research. There absolutely is. I'm just saying, sorry: reading a physical anth book (for example) as a side excursion does not painlessly take the place of an education in it.
My, we sure are minimizing the hard work of students everywhere today. Majored in what I majored in? Wow, great, you're a hard worker and your degree is soooooooo useful! Majored in something I didn't major in? Ha ha, how was that class, did you all get graded on sitting around holding hands and singing kumbaya?
Cute.
By the way, I can pick up any book on computers, or perhaps pick up no book at all and just tap about on my keyboard, and manage to learn quite the buttload about computers. Fair enough? No classes/formal education in the subject needed? Well, good! That's more time, money and credits saved.
Certainly not. And does one need a STEM degree to work with computers? Certainly not. My husband's major was in communications. Today he is the New Media Marketing manager at his company, where he creates (from scratch, not using Here's Your Template formulae that any 8-year-old could develop a page from) and updates web pages and manages social media for the artists. He is jokingly called "the IT guy" (a la SNL..."MOVE"). We use him at home in the same capacity (poor guy).
I mean if you want to get right down to it.
Does one need any sort of degree at all in order to write well? Some of us don't. I didn't. I worked for many years as a writer and editor (beginning at a global magazine) without any degree at all. In fact, I am only now going back to school; I have written professionally since 1999. Do MOST people need some formal training if their careers will have some form of focus on written communications? Yes. Writing doesn't necessarily come naturally to everyone. There are also technicalities even "naturals" don't realize exist as, again, they haven't been formally, systematically trained. I ran into that more than once on the job and had to cover my azz with some intelligent-sounding response or other before scurrying away to Google.
Either way, what's the logic in disliking snobbery against those who value a degree or specific type of degree, and having one's own snobbery against specific types of degrees? That was really the point I was making.
+1.
And I know STEM majors who write pretty poorly. I've across a number of people who possess graduate degrees in a professional or STEM field that need a good proofreading of their work. There are many who don't take their non-STEM classes seriously because it's "useless material and not practical." Uh huh. Hence why I'm surprised these same people know little about things that fall outside what they deem "practical" or useful for the purpose of earning money.
No one is minimizing the importance of STEM, but it's erroneous to assert there's no value in non-STEM fields and professions. You may know about a lot your particular field, which I can appreciate and admire, and I can talk circles around you about mine. There are many disciplines that may not be "practical" in the way some STEM fields are (and not all of these fields guarantee high paying jobs), but have tremendous value in introducing learners to a variety of ideas, ways of thinking, the ability to critically and objectively analyze an idea, concept, argument, etc.
I'm not saying STEM is more useful but there are many misconceptios on STEM education.
STEM education isn't a trade school, for example, computer science isn't the study of programming and the whole purpose of computer science education isn't teaching students programming. Computer science is more about how to solve problems with computer. Some computer scientists do not program at all, they prove theorems, and some other computer scientists are interested in network protocol, etc. Programming is used in the implementation of ideas, it's not computer science. The essence of computing has little to do with the machine. Many computer scientists only have math degrees, for example, Lamport earned his bs, ms and PhD all in mathematics.
It seems that “never went to college" is a turn-off to many women.
What about college dropouts? I'm not talking about Bill Gates, just typical college dropouts.
Is bachelor degree a must? Does major matter? Does the prestige of the school matter?
What about advanced degrees? Degrees from medical and dental schools are definitely desirable, no dispute. But what about master degrees and PhD degrees?
This is really an open question, I'd like to hear opinions from women.
It doesn't matter if you earn a high salary.
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Well, good! That's more time, money and credits saved.
