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The problem is you stating something is a waste of time, despite never having tried it. The reality is you have no idea if it is or is not.
I've never tried lots of things (see scuba diving, marathons, etc) yet I wouldn't never then say they are a waste of time.... because, duh, I've never tried them.
This really shows how much in spite of having millions of registered active users OLD still suffers from the stigma of coming off as weird, desperate, having 0 social skills etc etc. Nearly everyone has used, is using or will use OLD to some degree though many just won't admit to it. Personally I oftentimes come across acquaintances or co-workers with online profiles.
This is a good question, without a good answer. Sure, it can easily be said that OLD is probably better for better looking people (last person I was serious about is a total total babe, only 33, and when she opens her profile up she gets TONS of great (and not so great) messages. It's easy for her.), but is also better for those than can write decently, and for those that can tell a story or spin a narrative. Not everyone can. For those who aren't great looking AND they aren't all that adept at communicating via the written word are at a severe disadvantage with OLD. I have no idea what the solution is there, if there is one.
Oh, and I don't think people need to be fabulous, obviously. I'm far from it, and most people that I know that use it are just normal, everyday people, but even if one isn't "fabulous" they can at least be passionate. About something. If they can then convey that passion or passions through their profile they have a big head start, but as you're alluding to, that's a pretty big IF.
Passion may be the key. Writing well is a skill that some people may never develop, but even clumsily composed prose can convey passion. Too many men aren't comfortable expressing emotions beyond anger, but that is ultimately a choice. If a man is getting little or no response he might as well try something new, even if it's a bit uncomfortable. The right picture can also show what a guy is passionate about, and that takes the pressure off of his writing.
While it seems a lot of men write crappy profiles and send crappy messages, do you think those same men all have the ability to write a great profile or to be intriguing? I don't mean any snark by asking that, and I suspect you're giving that example to point out that a variety of things can contribute to success socially. My point is that many of those factors are not available to all men simply through effort or study. Some, and perhaps many of the men writing bad profiles now can only get to OK with a lot of additional effort. I mean, are most people (men or women) intriguing? Really? And of those who are intriguing, how many can convey that in a dating profile?
By all means be intriguing and let that shine through in your profile if you've got that going on, but it may not be a solution for most men.
Now it may be that compared to some of the weak profiles men write and the lousy messages they send, a basic but informative profile with a couple of decent (representative) pics and a message comprised of full sentences may make a difference, and that's achievable. I just wonder if telling guys who are struggling that they need to be fabulous may be setting the bar too high.
The reality is, and this is what I've gotten from women who online dated, some embrace it and others don't. From my conversations with women, the ones who tended to enjoy life and never really got caught up with the dating, marriage, and children scene tend to enjoy online dating. It fits their lifestyle of being able to pick it up and put it down when they want. If they have a week that's of low burden, they can try and shore up a date or two. If their week has a heavier burden, then they put it down till things slow down.
For the women who did get caught up in the dating, marriage, and children path, they tend to be more down on the process, are embarrassed to be online, and feel like "failures". They didn't meet their spouses online or ex's online, so they feel like something is amiss when they have to rely more on online dating.
This is just the opinion I've received from women that I have had this discussion with.
While it seems a lot of men write crappy profiles and send crappy messages, do you think those same men all have the ability to write a great profile or to be intriguing? I don't mean any snark by asking that, and I suspect you're giving that example to point out that a variety of things can contribute to success socially. My point is that many of those factors are not available to all men simply through effort or study. Some, and perhaps many of the men writing bad profiles now can only get to OK with a lot of additional effort. I mean, are most people (men or women) intriguing? Really? And of those who are intriguing, how many can convey that in a dating profile?
By all means be intriguing and let that shine through in your profile if you've got that going on, but it may not be a solution for most men.
Now it may be that compared to some of the weak profiles men write and the lousy messages they send, a basic but informative profile with a couple of decent (representative) pics and a message comprised of full sentences may make a difference, and that's achievable. I just wonder if telling guys who are struggling that they need to be fabulous may be setting the bar too high.
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Originally Posted by timberline742
This is a good question, without a good answer. Sure, it can easily be said that OLD is probably better for better looking people (last person I was serious about is a total total babe, only 33, and when she opens her profile up she gets TONS of great (and not so great) messages. It's easy for her.), but is also better for those than can write decently, and for those that can tell a story or spin a narrative. Not everyone can. For those who aren't great looking AND they aren't all that adept at communicating via the written word are at a severe disadvantage with OLD. I have no idea what the solution is there, if there is one.
Oh, and I don't think people need to be fabulous, obviously. I'm far from it, and most people that I know that use it are just normal, everyday people, but even if one isn't "fabulous" they can at least be passionate. About something. If they can then convey that passion or passions through their profile they have a big head start, but as you're alluding to, that's a pretty big IF.
I really don't think looks help I always said OLD was better for men that are good creative writers and are good at marketing themselves through words.
Also the fact is a lot of men lie to try and boost their response rate so if you're an honest guy like me you're getting screwed from the get go. I think my profile is decent because I've had years to tweak it but my letters probably aren't very good and my sense of humor does not transfer well to letters to someone I don't even know or met before.
I just need to stick to RL probably which is how I met all of the girls I was ever in a relationship with. OLD just makes me want throw a fit of rage it's so frustrating.
While it seems a lot of men write crappy profiles and send crappy messages, do you think those same men all have the ability to write a great profile or to be intriguing?
By my standards or criteria, probably not, but to some others, sure.
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I don't mean any snark by asking that, and I suspect you're giving that example to point out that a variety of things can contribute to success socially. My point is that many of those factors are not available to all men simply through effort or study.
I agree. And the same for many women. There are definitely factors that can improve one's experience or success depending on what and who they're looking for. The men who may be average to most people will have to know how to stand out and attract the type of women they're interested in. However, I recognize that not all, or even most men who are not in the "top 10%" in looks or income, possess the know-how to stand out.
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Some, and perhaps many of the men writing bad profiles now can only get to OK with a lot of additional effort. I mean, are most people (men or women) intriguing? Really?
It depends on how we're defining intriguing here, because what's intriguing to me isn't intriguing to many others. A guy who states he collects, reads and writes comics may catch my attention, but likely won't catch the attention of most others. A guy can list his favorite authors, and if we have shared taste and interest, my curiosity is piqued. My husband listed many things I found intriguing, because it demonstrated actual interest and passion, and some were niche interests.
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And of those who are intriguing, how many can convey that in a dating profile?
Again, it depends on how we're defining it. My husband was intrigued that I shot off names of filmmakers and authors, instead of "I like action movies. I really like Iron Man." He knew I wasn't feigning interest just to look cool, because nerdy/geeky things have become mainstream in recent years, nor was my interest passive. If someone can list David Fincher or Cohen brothers by name, and easily identify and discuss their work, they had my attention. He mentioned Neil Gaiman and Brandon Sanderson. He had my attention.
Again, what's intriguing to me is likely very different for many others, considering I talked to a lot of guys who hid aspects of themselves/personality/interests in order to be appealing to the majority of women. Men who shared their love for sci-fi/fantasy/niche interests in conversation, but not in their profile, because "women don't like that stuff." But these were/are my type. My husband waxing lyrical about his interests and passions, and not giving a **** how "immature" it may look, is what caught my interest. If he was just a handsome face I wouldn't have bothered sending a message.
I will say this, the most intriguing, engaging, interesting people/profiles, were the creative/artistic types. A lot of the men I met and dated seriously are writers/musicians/artists. They wrote about the things they're passionate about, and crafted a great narrative that caught my attention, and possibly the attention of other women.
I think many, most, don't know what they're doing, what they really want, and the best way to search for or attract a compatible match. Why cast a wide net? Narrow your (general) target audience. The secret comic book geek/gamer/sci-fi/fantasy dude should be looking for women who share similar interests and personality type. Leaving these details out of one's profile means real potential matches may overlook these guys due to perceived incompatibility or lack of shared interests. Since my target age group was late 30s to early 40s there were a lot of cliche "mature-sounding" profiles, but they didn't catch my attention. The ones that did had a "**** it. Imma be me, and do my thing. I don't care if it's immature to love Star Wars."
The men who demonstrated a softer, creative side, also stood out, either in how they expressed themselves, or what they shared.
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By all means be intriguing and let that shine through in your profile if you've got that going on, but it may not be a solution for most men.
The point should be, don't try to be intriguing to everyone. My profile probably wasn't intriguing to everyone, but it was to my type. I had an audience in mind and wrote about myself, a lot about "stuff," and just had fun with it. I didn't cast a wide net, but I received a lot of attention from all sorts of men, of varying backgrounds. I was 100% myself, but I crafted an engaging and fun narrative. Heck, I even later edited my profile to include a caveat that would surely narrow my pool of potential matches, but it ended up being a hit.
An aside, I received a few messages about not "understanding" part of my profile. One guy said he "didn't get it." He was referring to a short piece of creative writing associated with my headline that referenced a movie (I'm a cinephile, after all). I intentionally made my profile interactive to invite, well, fun interactions and playful banter. A lot of men guessed, wrongly, Doctor Who, though I could certainly see why. I told the guy that the piece of writing is a reference to a sci-fi/fantasy film, and his response was something like "I'm not into sci-fi." Well, no ****, hence why you didn't get the reference. Just like I wouldn't get a lot of sports references/talk.
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Now it may be that compared to some of the weak profiles men write and the lousy messages they send, a basic but informative profile with a couple of decent (representative) pics and a message comprised of full sentences may make a difference, and that's achievable. I just wonder if telling guys who are struggling that they need to be fabulous may be setting the bar too high.
I don't know about "fabulous," but knowing who you're targeting, and how to attract them, is a good place to start.
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Originally Posted by timberline742
This is a good question, without a good answer. Sure, it can easily be said that OLD is probably better for better looking people (last person I was serious about is a total total babe, only 33, and when she opens her profile up she gets TONS of great (and not so great) messages. It's easy for her.), but is also better for those than can write decently, and for those that can tell a story or spin a narrative. Not everyone can. For those who aren't great looking AND they aren't all that adept at communicating via the written word are at a severe disadvantage with OLD. I have no idea what the solution is there, if there is one.
Exactly. In my experience, if you don't have looks, money or looks + money, you have to stand out in other ways, and this is especially true for online dating (except Tinder, which wouldn't have been my thing). But not everyone can stand out, or know how to highlight their strengths to attract potential matches.
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Oh, and I don't think people need to be fabulous, obviously. I'm far from it, and most people that I know that use it are just normal, everyday people, but even if one isn't "fabulous" they can at least be passionate. About something. If they can then convey that passion or passions through their profile they have a big head start, but as you're alluding to, that's a pretty big IF.
I love online dating. It's really a lot of fun and definitely not a waste of time. If you know how to use it well, it's an extremely efficient way to meet tons of women with little no effort. Instead of just randomly going to bars or any place, you can quickly meet women of all types with just a few clicks.
I do feel that I'm a good looking guy and tall, so that definitely helps, but I've developed strategies that are extremely effective. I have one very effective intro template message that not only interests most women but gets them engaged and curious. Women really aren't all that different from one another, most women respond to my intro message in a similar fashion and then it's all about having follow up responses prepared and bam you got them. You need a message that is more than just "hi" "Hey" "Whats up" but not so long that they get bored as most have short attention spans.
Not every woman responds. Out of 10, I'll get about 6 responses and obviously I don't have the time to meet them all, but it's good to create options for yourself. Online dating is a piece of cake if you know how it works.
I love online dating. It's really a lot of fun and definitely not a waste of time. If you know how to use it well, it's an extremely efficient way to meet tons of women with little no effort. Instead of just randomly going to bars or any place, you can quickly meet women of all types with just a few clicks.
I do feel that I'm a good looking guy and tall, so that definitely helps, but I've developed strategies that are extremely effective. I have one very effective intro template message that not only interests most women but gets them engaged and curious. Women really aren't all that different from one another, most women respond to my intro message in a similar fashion and then it's all about having follow up responses prepared and bam you got them. You need a message that is more than just "hi" "Hey" "Whats up" but not so long that they get bored as most have short attention spans.
Not every woman responds. Out of 10, I'll get about 6 responses and obviously I don't have the time to meet them all, but it's good to create options for yourself. Online dating is a piece of cake if you know how it works.
My curiosity is piqued. It's not a cliche or trite message, is it? A silly pickup line? I wonder how a template used in this manner would work so effectively, unless your goal is to cast a wide net and hope any will take the bite, even if they're not good matches
Canned messages demonstrated the individual didn't really read my profile, and this set the tone for all exchanges. Either I didn't return a response, or the exchange fizzled.
I was on OKC for about four months and did very well. There was a three week period where I went on eight dates, including my G/F of nearly two years. Half of these messaged me first, and the other half I initiated. I attribute much of my success to the area where I live, although I did put a lot of effort into my profile and answered several hundred of the questions. Like Timber, I also shave my head and would consider myself average, though I do hit the gym five times a week. I do think where you live plays a big role. Luckily for me there are a lot of women near my age here with similar interests as me.
My curiosity is piqued. It's not a cliche or trite message, is it? A silly pickup line? I wonder how a template used in this manner would work so effectively, unless your goal is to cast a wide net and hope any will take the bite, even if they're not good matches
Canned messages demonstrated the individual didn't really read my profile, and this set the tone for all exchanges. Either I didn't return a response, or the exchange fizzled.
It's very simple. Only about three sentences long. In just three sentences, I ask them how they are, tell them I'd like to get to know them more. In the second sentence and third I hit them with a bit of confidence. I tell them if they go out with me, I guarantee they will go home with the biggest smile.
As cheesy at it may sound, the way the message is set up engages them. They becomes curious with the guarantee. They almost always say: "How can you guarantee that?" or "why will I have the biggest smile?" and different variations of that. Then I just hit them with my follow up messages and very shortly I'll have their phone number.
Yes, my goal is cast a wide net, which is why the method works perfectly.
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