materialism in the dating world (wives, females, younger, affair)

[Stockyman]

Originally Posted by dcarney

I honestly think that most posters on this board don't understand how difficult it is for the average guy to date. We have to do a lot of approaching and must experience a lot of rejection to get dates. It's a lot of physical, mental, and emotional work for us. Women don't have to experience this and don't know what it's like.

On the same hand, some posters don't know how hard it is for unattractive women. To be thought of as a mere booty call or one night stand until something better comes along must hurt a lot emotionally.

But I do find it amusing that most men value frugality in a woman while most women would thumb their nose at that trait in a man. We are so different.

[dcarney]

Originally Posted by Stockyman

On the same hand, some posters don't know how hard it is for unattractive women. To be thought of as a mere booty call or one night stand until something better comes along must hurt a lot emotionally.

I've never seen a single situation where this occurs. From what I've seen IRL, all women have plenty of options for both long and short term partners.

But I do find it amusing that most men value frugality in a woman while most women would thumb their nose at that trait in a man. We are so different.

This goes back to what I was saying before...and what OP says about women being materialistic. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.

[Mikala43]

In my circle the women are frugal and the men like to spend, certainly not all, but when I thought about it a lot of examples came to mind quickly.

[Chowhound]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

In my circle the women are frugal and the men like to spend, certainly not all, but when I thought about it a lot of examples came to mind quickly.

I think it just depends. We used to have a SIL that was probably the worst I've ever seen, she blew every dime she ever got, drove her and husband into bankruptcy, lost their house, her parents enabled her by bailing her out a couple of times. Now they are old and don't have enough money to retire.


Sad situation.

[NewYorker11356]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

I agree, I've always thought dating (initial stages) is much more difficult for men, and I feel for you all.

And that's part of the reason why I feel like I do alright with OLD. I've always been terrible and/or had bad luck in the initial stages for some odd reason.

OLD does sort of deal with the initial stages for the most part.

[dcarney]

Originally Posted by Londoncowboy30

It is horses for courses for different blokes and believe me I DO understand

When I say it's their choice if it's difficult or not I mean mainly in their actions when approaching....... I think most of the men that struggle with dating ( the ones that actually bother to approach ) is mainly down to them not thinking out things proper, not reading situations clearly or above all else not respecting the time and place and choosing an unfortunate time for her ( doing something, busy at work, etc etc ).

And of course what the men say is the most important thing ..... Just that they believe it to be charming or romantic and so on it doesn't for one second mean a lady will

That's why I genuinely do believe it's mainly down to a blokes choices that makes it difficult or not

Again, this has not been my experience at all. IRL, I'm cute. I have a nice smile, intelligence, and an engaging personality (well, when I want to...but that's a whole other story). I know this.

But things like this happen to me fairly often: I just moved into my new apartment. When I was waiting for the movers, I stayed in my apartment lobby. I was bored so I started chatting with the receptionist. She is NOT my type at all. But we seemed to get along well so I asked her to dinner. She agreed and named days when she is free. She gave me her number.

I texted her today and got no response (it was just a basic text, as I've learned over the years to never invest that much into a woman, as many are total time wasters).

I have a lot of experiencing approaching and, therefore, I expected her to flake (based on her age and employment history). Can't say that it doesn't irk me though, even though I expected it.

Interestingly, I've developed ways to actually make this grim situation work (since it happens most of the time). However, as I said, she's not my type anyway so I'm not going to push this if she's already making it difficult.

In any event, I really don't think I was misreading the situation. I think that she was genuinely interested at the time and then changed her mind for whatever reason. This is extremely common and why I've learned to view women as flakes until proven otherwise.

The group approval thing doe happen and to be honest there is nothing more that I LOVE than meeting a lady with her friends on a night out and having a laugh and a good time with them as a group ...... Honestly that's one my best characteristics and am at complete ease when talking to a group

Yup, I love approaching groups. Because if the girl is not acting right and her friends are reasonable people (and if they like you), they will hold her accountable.

This is the REAL reason why meeting women through friends and other social networks works much better than random cold approaches. Women are held accountable for their actions in these situations.

Even average looking blokes fair well with the ladies as long as they have the personality and wit about them ( this I've proved many times )

It sounds like you are good at handling these kinds of situations (which is common with men that frequent night clubs, since you have a lot of exposure to women). In my opinion, that's why you are successful, more than your wit and personality.

Personally I think you are well alright mate from what I've seen with you on here and like you say at least you do something about it and try your luck

Thank you. I like you too.

Originally Posted by Mikala43

I agree, I've always thought dating (initial stages) is much more difficult for men, and I feel for you all.

Thank you. On behalf of men, we appreciate the understanding.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by dcarney

I honestly think that most posters on this board don't understand how difficult it is for the average guy to date. We have to do a lot of approaching and must experience a lot of rejection to get dates. It's a lot of physical, mental, and emotional work for us. Women don't have to experience this and don't know what it's like.

We're trying to help. We're telling the OP what we would want as women in the dating world. And we're trying to tell him he is looking at all the wrong things as "the problem" here.

Why complain something is hard, ask for help, receive the help, reject it and continue to say "See, I told you this was hard"? That's a person literally refusing help, and keeping things hard. I mean I don't know what else we could all do here.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by dcarney

I actually disagree with this in the sense that dating, for men, requires a ton of approaches and rejections. I know because I do it. I don't walk around talking about it, but I approach a lot (and I'm talking about in person, not online...I don't do anything there because I have no success at all). Some women are just nasty at the outset. Others seem interested at the time, but don't respond when I message them. The only ways that I've found to consistently get women to respond is to appeal to something that many of them value: social approval from their peers.

This means that I either need to look like I have money, befriend their friends (so if they are rude to me, they risk social standing with their friends), I have to be extremely fun and outgoing, or I have to be extremely good-looking (not something I could change, unfortunately).

Why do you think it's any easier for a woman?

Sure, we get approached. A lot. By guys who might

* be looking just for sex, but lie about that.
* be looking for just sex, and tell us at the outset, including a gross D pic.
* have literally nothing in common with us, nothing NADA, ZIP, zero, zilch, nil BUT they really like our headlights.
* think we're just sort of "meh" but they're willing to bang us until the right woman comes along.
* flake before the date.
* have one date, then flake.
* have a couple of dates, then sex, then flake.
* turn out to have some secret hideous deal-breaker issue.
* just not be someone we "feel it" with.
* be a great guy and just right one!

It will likely be one of those. How will we get to the last one? By loads of trial and error, loads of dates that don't pan out, a few embarrassing stories, a few gross stories, a few truly frightening stories, getting all dolled up from our hair to or toenails including that expensive new outfit and hang our star on a date that is actually TERRIBLE in the long run...then having a relationship get off the ground but die either suddenly or slowly...then have to start aaaaaaaaaaaaaaall over again.

WHY does one sex think the other has it "so easy"? God that's frustrating.

As for all the things a guy "has to" be, we women have to be really nice-looking, friendly, funny, interesting, really nice-looking, intelligent but not pretentious, really nice-looking, sooooooooooo sexy but NOT A **** ZOMG (um...?), really nice-looking, have a self-supporting career but not act like we "don't need" a guy, be really nice-looking, be really nice-looking, be stable, secure, together, be young and be really nice-looking.

So quit the whining.

I've never seen a single situation where this occurs. From what I've seen IRL, all women have plenty of options for both long and short term partners.

You "never see" it because an unattractive woman is generally literally invisible to some men. I've seen this...time and time again. You literally do not see the non-hotties, unless they are so seriously insulting to your Hottie Meter that they stand out in negative way. But the just sort of plain, sort of quiet, sort of average body, non-striking girls? They are invisible. But they exist. Please don't pretend that because you've "never seen" such a thing, it doesn't happen. You've "never seen" it because your eyes have been trained on the hottie like a dog chasing the mechanical rabbit in a race.

[Chowhound]

Originally Posted by JerZ

You "never see" it because an unattractive woman is generally literally invisible to some men. I've seen this...time and time again. You literally do not see the non-hotties, unless they are so seriously insulting to your Hottie Meter that they stand out in negative way. But the just sort of plain, sort of quiet, sort of average body, non-striking girls? They are invisible. But they exist. Please don't pretend that because you've "never seen" such a thing, it doesn't happen. You've "never seen" it because your eyes have been trained on the hottie like a dog chasing the mechanical rabbit in a race.

In everyday life there are plenty of average to plain ol' ugly women and I can surely attest that some of these women struggle to meet men. These guys on here rambling on about how much better women have it aren't completely right. I do think in some ways women do have it a bit better, but this is the above average women.

There used to be a poster from a long time ago that used to post here and she was really a wasn't an attractive woman.

Do men really think that a woman like her has men eatin out of her hands????

There are lots and lots of women like that woman, maybe not as extreme but even in the land of hot people here in So Cal, I see lots and lots of fat dumpy women that I'm sure aren't beating men off with a stick.

Let's keep it real here guys.

[dcarney]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Why do you think it's any easier for a woman?

Sure, we get approached. A lot. By guys who might

* be looking just for sex, but lie about that.
* be looking for just sex, and tell us at the outset, including a gross D pic.
* have literally nothing in common with us, nothing NADA, ZIP, zero, zilch, nil BUT they really like our headlights.
* think we're just sort of "meh" but they're willing to bang us until the right woman comes along.
* flake before the date.
* have one date, then flake.
* have a couple of dates, then sex, then flake.
* turn out to have some secret hideous deal-breaker issue.
* just not be someone we "feel it" with.
* be a great guy and just right one!

It will likely be one of those. How will we get to the last one? By loads of trial and error, loads of dates that don't pan out, a few embarrassing stories, a few gross stories, a few truly frightening stories, getting all dolled up from our hair to or toenails including that expensive new outfit and hang our star on a date that is actually TERRIBLE in the long run...then having a relationship get off the ground but die either suddenly or slowly...then have to start aaaaaaaaaaaaaaall over again.

WHY does one sex think the other has it "so easy"? God that's frustrating.

See, I think this is where many women are confused about what "struggling" and "difficulty in dating" truly mean.

By many accounts, I'm an above average guy. I'm cute with a good, stable job that I've worked very hard for, and an outgoing, charming personality. I'm worldly and intelligent.

Yet, as we speak, I have absolutely zero (0) relationship or sexual options. I have absolutely no one interested in me in either aspect at this time. I am unable to simply create an OLD profile and have any offer at all.

Does this mean I'm screwed? Well, no, I am not screwed. I can simply go out and approach many women. I can go out to a bar on any given night, charm a woman for 3-4 hours, and take her home. Or I could approach many women during the day/at work/at social events or wherever. I can spend a lot of time in good conversation with a girl, get her number, text her, not have her respond back, text her weekly for a few months straight, take her on expensive dates (maybe have her flake on me once or twice), and then, finally, end up in a relationship.

How do I know this? Because I've done...over and over and over again. And before anybody says anything about what I just wrote: I've been in several relationships and I've ended them all. So it wasn't a situation where I begged them to date me and then they dumped me. These women legitimately cared about me.

Why every single one of them made me jump through so many hoops at the beginning, I'll never know.

As for all the things a guy "has to" be, we women have to be really nice-looking, friendly, funny, interesting, really nice-looking, intelligent but not pretentious, really nice-looking, sooooooooooo sexy but NOT A **** ZOMG (um...?), really nice-looking, have a self-supporting career but not act like we "don't need" a guy, be really nice-looking, be really nice-looking, be stable, secure, together, be young and be really nice-looking.

I'm not a looks guy. Sure I'd prefer a good-looking woman, but I also give women a chance that aren't my type (see above). Of course, I'm not as willing to jump through those ridiculous hoops if she isn't really what I'm looking for.

So quit the whining.

I've been dating for many years and am currently dating. I've had many successes. I would hardly call my posts "whining". More like relating my experiences.

You "never see" it because an unattractive woman is generally literally invisible to some men. I've seen this...time and time again. You literally do not see the non-hotties, unless they are so seriously insulting to your Hottie Meter that they stand out in negative way. But the just sort of plain, sort of quiet, sort of average body, non-striking girls? They are invisible. But they exist. Please don't pretend that because you've "never seen" such a thing, it doesn't happen. You've "never seen" it because your eyes have been trained on the hottie like a dog chasing the mechanical rabbit in a race.

This is also not true. I'm friends with and know many women that are unattractive (morbidly obese, very old, or just not pretty). Not one of them has had significant issues in attracting men. And I'm not talking about 2 or 3 women that I just met. I'm talking many different unattractive women that I've known very closely throughout many different years (high school to undergrad to grad school to the military and everything in between).

See to women, "struggling" means that they have many dates and many guys interested, but they have no one that they themselves are interested in. That's not what I'd call struggling. Contrast this to many men that have absolutely no interest at all unless they pursue something.

For some reason, most women can't seem to fathom this, but this is the case for the vast majority of men.

Even the guys on here: if Chowhound got a divorce or LC stopped going to bars, they would have no options. This would not be the case for just about any woman.

Originally Posted by Chowhound

In everyday life there are plenty of average to plain ol' ugly women and I can surely attest that some of these women struggle to meet men. These guys on here rambling on about how much better women have it aren't completely right. I do think in some ways women do have it a bit better, but this is the above average women.

Again, I disagree with this. See above. There's very few women that have absolutely no options.

There used to be a poster from a long time ago that used to post here and she was really a pretty homely looking woman, I'm really not trying to be mean here, but she looked like weird Al after he got in a few bar fights. She doesn't post anymore these days but she was probably around 24 or so, lived at home with her parents, openly stated that she wasn't into sex, thought it was overrated, she wasn't really fat but pudgy. She was sort of on the dim side, not stupid, but clearly wasn't curing cancer if you follow me.

So let's recap, she was homely, dull and dim witted, lived at home with her parents, didn't care for sex. Do men really think that a woman like her has men eatin out of her hands????

There are lots and lots of women like that woman, maybe not as extreme but even in the land of hot people here in So Cal, I see lots and lots of fat dumpy women that I'm sure aren't beating men off with a stick.

Let's keep it real here guys.

These are extremes (which you note yourself). I'm talking about average men here.

I think a lot of the issues is that men that have been married for a long time and simply disconnected to what the single life was like. This is understandable. No offense, CH. I like you and your posts, but I think you're wearing some rose-colored glasses here.