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No one said it comes with strings. Ever. Not one little bit.
And of course it doesn't mitigate the invitation, one little bit.
When I invite someone to dinner, I expect them to be my guest and to pay. Duh. And would decline the offer.
That has nothing to do with them offering out of basic courtesy. And you're apparently purposely neglecting that this isn't about a singular occasion, but about it happening over and over and over.
It seems far too often parents are teaching basic manners anymore. Sad.
I've always (except in my teen years) dated grown-ups, and grown-ups don't sit around helplessly expecting someone else to pay their way for everything. So going Dutch, so to speak, was no problem, nor was switching who paid or whatever setup worked.
A lot of guys wanted to pay on the first date. This could be my generation; who knows. (Gen X.) After that it was pretty much expected that neither of us would be getting a free ride. We were together because we wanted to be together, not because one of us was getting something for free.
Just the way I've always looked at the paying for dates situation.
If I had had a situation (can't imagine wanting this but here's my take) where I sat there and got wined and dined and taken on trips entirely for free with the red carpet being rolled out for me, I'd have seen that as "an arrangement" and no, I would NOT have expected to suddenly turn around and start paying for dates with that particular person. That would have been a bait-and-switch.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
I've always (except in my teen years) dated grown-ups, and grown-ups don't sit around helplessly expecting someone else to pay their way for everything. So going Dutch, so to speak, was no problem, nor was switching who paid or whatever setup worked.
A lot of guys wanted to pay on the first date. This could be my generation; who knows. (Gen X.) After that it was pretty much expected that neither of us would be getting a free ride. We were together because we wanted to be together, not because one of us was getting something for free.
Just the way I've always looked at the paying for dates situation.
That is the way every single person I have ever dated has looked on it to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
If I had had a situation (can't imagine wanting this but here's my take) where I sat there and got wined and dined and taken on trips entirely for free with the red carpet being rolled out for me, I'd have seen that as "an arrangement" and no, I would NOT have expected to suddenly turn around and start paying for dates with that particular person. That would have been a bait-and-switch.
I can see this to. The OP created the dynamic. I wouldn't have made it that far with this woman since clearly she wasn't interested in me as a person, but the OP did.
When I invite someone to dinner, I expect them to be my guest and to pay. Duh. And would decline the offer.
So then what's the purpose of the offer? To show you that she's "equal"? That she won't accept your invitation at face-value? That she's not a "free-loader"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
That has nothing to do with them offering out of basic courtesy. And you're apparently purposely neglecting that this isn't about a singular occasion, but about it happening over and over and over.
And, we have no idea what these conversations were regarding these outings, or any of the back-story. So, really, not much to speak about on that front, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
It seems far too often parents are teaching basic manners anymore. Sad.
Yeah. Teaching kids that they should always "offer to pay their own way" even in the face of an invitation is essential. Because people shouldn't graciously accept invitations. Nope.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishigas73
So then what's the purpose of the offer? To show you that she's "equal"? That she won't accept your invitation at face-value? That she's not a "free-loader"?
To show basic courtesy and manners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishigas73
Yeah. Teaching kids that they should always "offer to pay their own way" even in the face of an invitation is essential. Because people shouldn't graciously accept invitations. Nope.
Yes, it is essential. The offering to pay is not NOT graciously accepting the invitation. At all. One can, and does, except invites and still offer to pay their way, or for something along the way. That is still graciously accepting the invitation, and displaying good manners at the same time.
Taking and taking and taking, over and over, even if one is invited, over and over and over, is not classy or considerate or kind. At all.
I'm in my late 20s now and see a woman in her early 30s. It started off as a hookup and transitioned into seeing each other 1 to 3 times a week with occasional sleepovers and road trips over the last 2 months.
I've payed for all of our dates and road trips, including hotel stays at resorts, fuel, food, tickets for events, etc. I think I make more money than her, but I won't ask since its not my business. I'm concerned that I set the expectation that I will pay for everything.
How do I set the expectation that I want her to start paying her fair share for some of our dates, trips, and encounters? I don't care about having a 50/50 split, but chipping in for fuel, hotels, dates, food, etc would be great.
My wife was like that when dating. I asked her about it. She responded. When I get married I have to pay for a wedding, wedding dress, want to be able to pay half the down payment on a house and want some savings so when I have kids if I want to be a stay at home mom I have that option.
She said any guy who is marrying me this will work out great. But I don't feel need to pay for diners, drinks, dates for guys who want to use me and dump me and when time comes to get married I and my future husband have to sacrifice so I could buy drinks for a guy who dumped me.
I thought is was smart. I did well on deal as she paid for wedding and chipped in 60K for house downpayment.
It shows she has basic good manners, and doesn't want to be seen as a freeloader.
Kindness and considerateness means a lot in this world. People that take, without giving, or aren't of a mindset to share, are neither kind nor considerate and lack manners. I have no space in my life, and definitely not in my heart, for people without manners.
What? Do you offer to pay someone for the birthday present they give you too? Good manners does mean reciprocating but it does not mean having to offer to pay on the spot for each and every invite and I cannot believe you actually expect that.
The only thing you should 'expect' is the pleasure of their company (the reason you invited them isn't it?) and a thank you. If they have manners they will reciprocate in some way, maybe at some point down the road, but to consider them classless because they don't offer to 'pay' for the invite, cash in hand, makes me wonder at your idea of class.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT
What? Do you offer to pay someone for the birthday present they give you too? Good manners does mean reciprocating but it does not mean having to offer to pay on the spot for each and every invite and I cannot believe you actually expect that.
The only thing you should 'expect' is the pleasure of their company (the reason you invited them isn't it?) and a thank you. If they have manners they will reciprocate in some way, maybe at some point down the road, but to consider them classless because they don't offer to 'pay' for the invite, cash in hand, makes me wonder at your idea of class.
No one said pay on the spot for each and every invite. I never said that, nor expect it. And no one said anything about accepting the offer. Please read the other post and follow along.
And even in the singular post you quoted, I said "take without giving" as in they take and never give. There is no reciprocation. I was clearly talking about those people.
I'm in my late 20s now and see a woman in her early 30s. It started off as a hookup and transitioned into seeing each other 1 to 3 times a week with occasional sleepovers and road trips over the last 2 months.
I've payed for all of our dates and road trips, including hotel stays at resorts, fuel, food, tickets for events, etc. I think I make more money than her, but I won't ask since its not my business. I'm concerned that I set the expectation that I will pay for everything.
How do I set the expectation that I want her to start paying her fair share for some of our dates, trips, and encounters? I don't care about having a 50/50 split, but chipping in for fuel, hotels, dates, food, etc would be great.
An easy one could be to ask her to get the tickets for the next event. Then say "well I'll get dinner, seeing you paid for the tickets.....".
Although it's kinda off putting, - two months of dating and not even offering to pay for anything
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaBeachBum
But I don't feel need to pay for diners, drinks, dates for guys who want to use me and dump me and when time comes to get married I and my future husband have to sacrifice so I could buy drinks for a guy who dumped me.
So she used them, because undoubtedly she was dating some people she would not marry either.
Yes, it is essential. The offering to pay is not NOT graciously accepting the invitation. At all. One can, and does, except invites and still offer to pay their way, or for something along the way. That is still graciously accepting the invitation, and displaying good manners at the same time.
I suppose we have a fundamental difference in opinion about what constitutes "good manners" in the face of an invitation.
Several weeks ago, my parents came out to visit. My dad said to me and my partner that he and my mom wanted to take us out to dinner, and to pick a restaurant. Yeah, we didn't offer to pay when the bill came. Why? Because to do so would essentially be saying that no, we weren't, in fact, listening to what was said. "We want to take you out to dinner". Accepting the offer, graciously, means, to me, that we don't put our own spin on it. "Basic manners", to me, means that we actually listen to what is being said, and respect what the invitation actually is.
Believe it or not, there are some people in the world who would not be so enamored with the "offer".
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