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Old 12-20-2016, 11:29 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,927,258 times
Reputation: 26919

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
When did i blame women? men do the same.. All I'm saying is it's human nature that a cold approach is mostly a shallow approach
Because we do not actually know the person, by definition, yes, it has to be shallow, as in: we don't literally know, just on an approach, that the guy is great with children, fosters rescue dogs and can quote Nietzsche.

But you continue to insist that women in general are going for the gorgeous guys when we cold approach, because we must be looking at men the way I think you must be looking at women (based on your figuring other people must be this way, it just seems like that to me). And although there are always exceptions, in general I have found that I and women I know who have struck up interested conversations with men, have done so not because the guy looked "gorgeous," necessarily, but because he looked approachable, kind, interesting, was laughing (seemed to enjoy humor), dressed like he gave a hoot/took care of himself, and so on. You seem to just not want to hear this...you seem to keep making it about the "physical" as if we're approaching the Ken dolls. My experience has not been this...at all.

Claiming women will only approach the most handsome men (which is what saying it's all about looks is doing...face it) is just an excuse. It's an excuse, over and over and over again. What's dangerous about this excuse is that it makes men start to hate women. They refuse to see that it may be something else - maybe they're brooding/unapproachable, maybe their hygiene is awful, it could be anything - and instead make it, "I don't get approached because 'average' women expect an amazing physical male specimen, it's not fair, I totally hate women!" I worry when men start to hate women. Because a (small) percentage will actually turn out to be dangerous.

As for all the rest, they won't be dangerous, but they'll be bitter and angry and still all alone. So how did anything get accomplished here? See reality instead of making excuses. You may think that hurts more, but in the end it can only help you.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:34 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,927,258 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Oh, I think the BMI is BS for both genders!

One of the most athletic women I know does long distance racing, as in swimming non stop for 2, 3, 4+ hrs and does triathalons all summer, and she's "obese" according to the BMI.

So I don't give much creedance to those "75% of people are overweight" things. It's not what I see, except when I go back to visit Wisconsin. Then I believe it.
And again, look around you. When you describe such extreme athleticism, you are also talking an extreme minority.

OTOH, if BMI is "BS," then we really have nothing to go on and nobody's fat, right? So no more complaining! Problem solved. This is great news - no more "these guys who are actually in pretty decent shape, no, really! - being forced to hang with flabby women because the world is just not fair" insanity. Thanks for fixing this issue, Timber, it's a relief - let's sticky this idea.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:46 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
And again, look around you. When you describe such extreme athleticism, you are also talking an extreme minority.

OTOH, if BMI is "BS," then we really have nothing to go on and nobody's fat, right? So no more complaining! Problem solved. This is great news - no more "these guys who are actually in pretty decent shape, no, really! - being forced to hang with flabby women because the world is just not fair" insanity. Thanks for fixing this issue, Timber, it's a relief - let's sticky this idea.
I didn't say no one is fat. And I never said, nor implied, it is significantly different between the genders. It's just way way overblown in the media.

But no, I don't think people should complain about it either. It doesn't solve anything. Gyms are packed, people running everywhere, even in single digits temps (like last week), people tend to be active from what I see. That's more important than an index. Everyweek, 5ks, 10ks, half marathons, selling out... Spartan Races, Tough Mudders... packed packed and packed.

Sure, there are people that should get more exercise and eat more crap, but its not a crisis.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:55 AM
 
9,301 posts, read 8,324,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I didn't say no one is fat. And I never said, nor implied, it is significantly different between the genders. It's just way way overblown in the media.

But no, I don't think people should complain about it either. It doesn't solve anything. Gyms are packed, people running everywhere, even in single digits temps (like last week), people tend to be active from what I see. That's more important than an index. Everyweek, 5ks, 10ks, half marathons, selling out... Spartan Races, Tough Mudders... packed packed and packed.

Sure, there are people that should get more exercise and eat more crap, but its not a crisis.
All about selling, I think. The media makes people think they are inadequate, then they make them think they need something to be adequate, then they sell it.

Some people buy it in the hopes that it will give them better confidence so that they can approach others.

The fact of the matter is that while media does influence our standards. People may be attracted to a wider variety of looks when left to our own.

This feeling of inadequacy can be a factor in one's confidence and thus his or her likelihood of approaching.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:02 PM
 
5,313 posts, read 6,088,798 times
Reputation: 4110
.

But you continue to insist that women in general are going for the gorgeous guys when we cold approach, because we must be looking at men the way I think you must be looking at women (based on your figuring other people must be this way, it just seems like that to me). And although there are always exceptions, in general I have found that I and women I know who have struck up interested conversations with men, have done so not because the guy looked "gorgeous," necessarily, but because he looked approachable, kind, interesting, was laughing (seemed to enjoy humor), dressed like he gave a hoot/took care of himself, and so on. You seem to just not want to hear this...you seem to keep making it about the "physical" as if we're approaching the Ken dolls. My experience has not been this...at all.

Claiming women will only approach the most handsome men (which is what saying it's all about looks is doing...face it) is just an excuse. It's an excuse, over and over and over again. What's dangerous about this excuse is that it makes men start to hate women. They refuse to see that it may be something else - maybe they're brooding/unapproachable, maybe their hygiene is awful, it could be anything - and instead make it, "I don't get approached because 'average' women expect an amazing physical male specimen, it's not fair, I totally hate women!" I worry when men start to hate women. Because a (small) percentage will actually turn out to be dangerous.

As for all the rest, they won't be dangerous, but they'll be bitter and angry and still all alone. So how did anything get accomplished here? See reality instead of making excuses. You may think that hurts more, but in the end it can only help you.[/quote]

Huh? It's not an excuse or a reason for me or anyone else to hate women it's simply saying for plain or unattractive people of either gender a cold approach is not an easy way or the best way to attract the opposite sex since looks are usually the main motivation of a cold approach

Lastly where does this if you look clean and groomed you may get approached come from?

Maybe it's because I'm in NYC and most people here are reasonably groomed..I guess there are hole in the wall cities with a lot of unhygenic people and if you take a shower and put on decent clothes you somehow stand out lol..not here

Last edited by JBT1980; 12-20-2016 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:07 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,842,621 times
Reputation: 40634
Has anyone been promoting cold approaches to people a person has never interacted with as a good way to meet a significant other? If so, I haven't read it.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:18 PM
 
9,301 posts, read 8,324,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Has anyone been promoting cold approaches to people a person has never interacted with as a good way to meet a significant other? If so, I haven't read it.
I wouldn't go for cold approaches, myself.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:20 PM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
5,573 posts, read 3,334,536 times
Reputation: 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
It's whether or not we are attracted to the man for a number of reasons. He could look open, interested, fun, kind; and yes, there could be something physical, which will range from woman to woman. It could just be that he has nice eyes (to her). It could be his arms (my personal favorite). It could be that he cares about how he dresses and he cares how his hair looks and has made sure he looks and smells neat. It could be anything but looking approachable is number one.

I would never never never never never neeeeeeeeeeeeeever NEVer (did I mention never?) approach a GQ model-looking guy who had an unapproachable or smirky look about him. Never. Ever...And I haven't. And I never will. Blugh. Such a turnoff. Of course, it could be that handsome men are happier overall in such an environment because they have always been stroked for their looks, ergo they'll look happier, ergo more approachable - BUT again...if that means the man is jerky smirky happiness, ugh. Why would I? Pass.

You, and a few others, are quite deliberately missing the point with "approaching based on looks." YOU may approach based literally on how the woman looks from head to toe in some sort of scripted "numbers scale" way and are therefore projecting, but no matter how many times you insist that this is exactly how women operate as well, you won't make it true and make yourself feel better for being so unilaterally shallow, sorry. Approaching "based on looks" can (and often does) mean based on qualities about the person's looks that speak to what sort of a person he is. Humor/cheerfulness/casualness, taking care of himself (how he dresses and so on), whether he's engaging with other people, whether he has kind/welcoming eyes, etc...yes...for sure these are things I'd base sliding up and opening a conversation on.
Yet, the smirking GQ looking guy is probably doing just fine

Most of my post isn't a direct response to you, JerZ, but your post was a good starting point.

These discussions get weird sometimes because guys, mostly, make extreme and unsupportable comments (grizzly bears????) and that invites push back which is often a little off center too.

All of the following seems true to me when the sexes are reversed, with the appropriate qualifications based on all the social constructs that enter into this.

Among men who appear open and friendly, the objectively better looking men get approached far more often, and their approaches are far more often met with approval by women. I know everyone knows this, but it almost seems to be denied in an effort to get around the "women are shallow" arguments.

Let women be people. People put great value on surface appeal, especially when we have little to go on otherwise. And that makes it difficult for people who don't have much surface appeal. But the thing is, for men or women who aren't blessed with much surface appeal, enhancing what you have with good habits and choices is all that much more necessary than it is for GQ guy (or Vogue gal). So the advice here, to make the most of what you've got and to try to be a contented, open person, is right on target. It just matters precisely because of the truth that sometimes gets denied or made so peripheral that it might as well be denied.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:20 PM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,927,258 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJenkins602 View Post
I wouldn't go for cold approaches, myself.
Well, right, guys, but this thread IS about cold approaches, LOL. Post #1 confirms this by stating "breaking the ice." It's unlikely one would mention breaking the ice if the two already knew each other. (???)
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Jupiter
10,216 posts, read 8,286,411 times
Reputation: 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Oh come on, Timber.

If you're bulking pretty darned good and lifting very heavy, sure. I think you'll agree that MOST men are not doing this. LOL. Look around you...

We're not really going to go the "oh, men are just considered overweight 'by the numbers' because they're amazingly muscular" route, are we? LOL. AS I said...look around you.

With that in mind, indeed, the eyeball test is what makes the whole "but gorgeous guys have to 'settle' for 'very average' women" whimpery meme (not you, not saying that) obvious overwhelming balderdash. We don't even need the actual numbers to support this, I just find numbers interesting.

As for you, though, good on you for being healthy.
I agree.. Most guys I see at the gym aren't overweight they just want to get those gains! BTW, I like the USC Trojans as well
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