Are stay-at-home mums a remnant of patriarchy ? (dating, female, attracted)
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I personally think children are best off with a parent first, then other loving family members, but not so much strangers. That is my opinion based on a lot of life experience.
In a perfect world, perhaps. But those who do opt for daycare have done so because they need to work, and do not have the luxury of a family member who can/will sacrifice 40+ hours per week to care for a child (and hopefully give them attention and enriching activities)
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Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete
In a perfect world, perhaps. But those who do opt for daycare have done so because they need to work, and do not have the luxury of a family member who can/will sacrifice 40+ hours per week to care for a child (and hopefully give them attention and enriching activities)
And more than a few I know either don't have grandparents (I didn't when I was a kid), or they're not in the region, or they're not suitable or wanting to do childcare.
Or even if they don't need to work, they believe the socialization of being in daycare is of benefit to the children, as is the example the parents are setting by pursuing and having a career (and there is data supporting this).
I forgot to address your second paragraph. Having your wife work isn't likely to mitigate "toxicity", if she happens to be prone to it. In fact, having two working parents creates a whole new level of stress and complications. Even with both parents giving their all, it is still A LOT harder to run a household and raise a family while working. The work doesn't just cease once they're in school, either.
I personally don't find a stay at home wife a compatible fit and I've found, at least from the examples in my family, the longer the wife stays at home, the more toxic she becomes. Luckily, I'm now married to a woman whose probably even more career - oriented that I with retired parents who won't mind pitching in to help raise kids when we have them.
To address the point that some feminist women are pushing ideas that are in fact echoes of patriarchy: That is with regard to them JUDGING stay at home Moms for not pursuing a career, for adhering to the "traditional" model of being financially dependent on the man. I've heard some feminists also criticize women who choose to be submissive to their husbands or male partners, for similar reasons. They feel that their movement has fought so hard for women to stand up and be powerful, that they hate to see women surrender any of that power, and it looks like a step backwards.
What they fail to see is that the entire reason it's not, is consent and free choice. The ultimate power is to know yourself well enough to know what brings you true fulfillment, and to have the freedom to pursue it. That might not be constant throughout your entire life, or maybe it will. It might be having an ambitious career, it might be serving the needs of your family, it might be anything in between. But so long as it was something you CHOSE and not something you were forced into, then it's right and good for you.
Some people of any alignment or affiliation get too bogged down in the idea that there is one best way to live your life, and there's not. There never has been, and there never will be, I don't think, not really.
To address the point that some feminist women are pushing ideas that are in fact echoes of patriarchy: That is with regard to them JUDGING stay at home Moms for not pursuing a career, for adhering to the "traditional" model of being financially dependent on the man. I've heard some feminists also criticize women who choose to be submissive to their husbands or male partners, for similar reasons. They feel that their movement has fought so hard for women to stand up and be powerful, that they hate to see women surrender any of that power, and it looks like a step backwards.
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And those feminist women fail to see, that it is none of their business how some women choose to live their lives. They see any woman without a paid career as a "loser". They say career is "everything". However, I've seen lots of career women lose their jobs during the Great Recession and had career setbacks such as long term unemployment. They are not successful or financially independent anymore. That includes women who had professional degrees. Some now have to live with family or work menial jobs. Feminism and emphasis on career didn't guarantee lifelong financial independence for them.
What they fail to see is that the entire reason it's not, is consent and free choice. The ultimate power is to know yourself well enough to know what brings you true fulfillment, and to have the freedom to pursue it. That might not be constant throughout your entire life, or maybe it will. It might be having an ambitious career, it might be serving the needs of your family, it might be anything in between. But so long as it was something you CHOSE and not something you were forced into, then it's right and good for you.
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That's actually what feminism is--not to bog down this thread with more politics, but I thought of this thread when I read Lindy West's essay on the Megyn Kelly situation this week:
Conservative women, anti-feminist women, apolitical women, it is simply a fact: You are participating in feminism just by being alive. In the most passive sense, you are beneficiaries. You can vote, you can work, you can have your own bank account, you can bring a sexual harassment claim against someone at your place of employment, you can prosecute your husband for rape, you can get an abortion. These rights weren’t just won by the women’s movement of the past; they are protected by the feminist movement of today
Of course modern feminism falls under a huge tent, and it includes people who walk the walk but would never call themselves the f-word, and at the other end of the spectrum includes some militant radical nutjobs. To most middle-of-the-road feminists, being a SAHM is absolutely a valid choice, but it's still important that it's a choice (and a respected one.)
And those feminist women fail to see, that it is none of their business how some women choose to live their lives. They see any woman without a paid career as a "loser". They say career is "everything". However, I've seen lots of career women lose their jobs during the Great Recession and had career setbacks such as long term unemployment. They are not successful or financially independent anymore. That includes women who had professional degrees. Some now have to live with family or work menial jobs. Feminism and emphasis on career didn't guarantee lifelong financial independence for them.
You know what I learned from being a SAHM during the Great Recession? That a dual-income family is significantly less economically vulnerable than a single-earner family. We didn't really feel the effects of the recession until my husband was laid off right before Christmas 2013. Eight months with no job,and another six weeks before seeing his first paycheck ... we slowly drained the savings that was supposed to be our down payment for a home. We just now finally got our savings back to where it was, now that I am working, too. We had friends in similar straights, who couldn't even afford to downsize to a smaller apartment because of cost-prohibitive security deposits.
I’m a stay at home mom because I want to raise my own kids and run my own household. I also homeschool. I told my husband this flat out before we married and he was thrilled, because my self appointed ‘job’ is to do exactly what I want, and help him achieve his own goals by supporting him and his children on the home front.
But make no mistake, this is s choice and one we both sacrificed for to make work. It’s not vestigial patriarchy to care for one’s own offspring and dwellings instead of outsourcing it to others to do as their employment, especially poorer or browner people (which are the bulk of the housekeepers and gardeners). And it doesn’t mean it’s a wealth thing either, such as the stereotype of sipping lattes and doing yoga while the kids are at school but not holding outside employment.
I’d argue me making my own choices on how to live my life and what works best for me and my family is the height of feminism, not patriarchy. One could argue my husband is the one who gets the raw deal in this since he is the one holding outside employment. That’s not accurate either - he is doing what he loves and is as happy with his end of the arrangement as I am with mine, but the argument could certainly be made that he has the less freedom and flexibility of the two of us
Well that's the point, though. I've had plenty of folks tell me that my voluntaryism, or my humanism, is what THEY consider feminism to be. All I know is that by declining to use the "f-word" I have a much easier time having reasonable conversations with a broader variety of people. I'm a lot more invested in good ideas, than a label or a movement.
And I think that no matter what school of thought you prefer, probably most people make the mental mistake of thinking that our own "way" is better than that of other people, and if only more folks would see how it should be, then the world would be a better place. From the people saying that men should be the breadwinners, women should keep the house, and the nuclear family is the cornerstone of society...to those who say that women's minds and contributions to society are wasted in domestic roles...and a hundred other variations of "this is what life should look like." People who take their own beliefs or preferences and try to declaim that they're morals that ought to apply to all...heck, look at the choice to have or not have kids! I've heard people say that it is selfish and immoral to have them, or to NOT have them. Pretty silly. I don't know why folks have to prop up their own choices by trying to reinforce them with moral absolutes, or why difference makes us feel so attacked.
Personally, as I've mentioned before, I don't really know any feminists who judge stay at home Moms. I hear it's a thing...but I've never seen or heard it in real life. *shrug*
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