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So what are the benefits to temporary sexual and intimate pair bonding as opposed to permanent? For a man? For a woman? I’m interested in what you think is beneficial in delving into those experiences in a temporary fashion.
I think we can leave our relationships that looked to be long term and weren’t, like years long dating or divorce. But I haven’t ever heard someone make a decent argument for why sex and intimacy in a short term or casual experience is actually beneficial - especially emotionally, or psychologically. Physically I’ve heard some (weak-ish) arguments.
Want to give it a go?
As someone who has enjoyed (and sometimes not really enjoyed much) a significant number of temporary liaisons, I would be happy to speak to this.
It will be long, if you don't want to read a long thing, just read the last paragraph.
As a young person age 14-18, I found it mostly empowering. I enjoyed the pursuit. I have warm, fond memories of lounging nude in candlelight with many a young lover, enjoying the sight of their skin and having engaging post-sex conversations, exploring ideas and taking in the joy of my senses. It was not always DEEPLY fulfilling, but it was lovely. It was like taking in wonderful art, or music, or a delicious dessert, all wrapped into a variety of human forms. It taught me to see beauty in many people, and to be more accepting and compassionate and loving to others. How to connect.
Perhaps one of the few good things to come with the strictures of marriage, and the rejection of sexuality for a time, was that I learned how to connect with others, WITHOUT bringing sex into it. I'm an extrovert, with a very strong need for community and social interaction. My soul starves without it, I feel like a ghost haunting my home. I need people. And I cannot go around having sex with all of them. Those years did teach me that many people will value me for who I am, without needing sex to lure them into my life. A good thing to know.
After my marriage, I did not feel confident enough in my decision making abilities to want to secure another permanent relationship. In fact though, the very idea of real permanence makes me uneasy. I like to have the freedom to make choices. I don't like being locked down into something that is difficult to get out of. What if I change my mind? I don't even feel comfortable owning a home, I like the knowledge that if I don't like living somewhere, if a bad neighbor moves in, I can just leave when my lease is up. Freedom. It's important to me. I knew I could never again subject myself to a controlling partner, for one thing, one who meant to take my freedom and make a possession of me.
But other than that, I wasn't sure what I needed or wanted. I needed to learn. So, I began to date, and within a few months of beginning to date, I began to have sexual relations (outside of my home, mind, I didn't want my teenage sons to meet any of my loves unless I thought they would be a longterm part of my life...no need for them to deal with people coming and going.) I had what can only be called a fling, with a fascinating older man. He gave me a glimpse into desires I never knew I had. See, before...I thought that sex was something I didn't even need. The thing is, the most important sex organ is beyond a doubt, the BRAIN. And I had no idea what I needed to really have a happy sexual relationship. I started figuring that out, and some of my more casual (or at least temporary) partners really helped. (Trying to do this without getting into the graphic details, to those who care about that...you're welcome. ) I explored the concept of polyamory, which seemed to suit me well. I had a boyfriend who was poly, he courted in another couple, I fell in love with the wife of that couple, we were a "quad"...but there was still something I needed. I found it in the man I am still with today. He was willing to accept my poly lifestyle, though it wasn't his preference. But it gave us time to build the foundations for what came later, the monosexual committed longterm thing we're trying to do now. And it is going gloriously.
Eventually, trying to be a girlfriend (albeit with no intent of permanency on my part) got to be too much, too much pressure to feel I was doing enough for all of them, too much demands on my time and energy. In July 2016, I asked them if we could dial it back to just close friendship. I loved them, still do, they're dear to me...I just couldn't keep up the girlfriend thing with all of those people. I wanted to focus on the one relationship that really felt like a relationship, as the others just were feeling more like friends with sometimes benefits. I still feel like they are family. My dear adoring wonderful man likes them too, and we get together once in a while. It's nice. But I am now monosexual, if not monoamorous...I love many but only have sex with one. I get everything I need, and thankfully I have a pretty good idea of what all that entails. But, too, I needed the quad when I had them...they supported me through some bad times and really helped me heal and feel worthwhile and confident after the end of my marriage shook all that up. No amount of being alone would have done that. I have no illusions. Had I tried to be celibate post divorce, there's a good chance I might have ended up right back with my abuser. Many women do.
If I could sum all this stuff up, into a TL;DR version, it's that I enjoy the JOURNEY so much, I am in no hurry to find the destination and settle into it and wait to die. I love this life I've lived, even though it hasn't always been easy, and I love the people who have been part of it. I never needed forever from them. If my life is a wall, they've all added the colors of their perspectives and their love and yes, the experience of sex with them...some of them fade in time, some stay strong and bold. All have made my life richer for having been there. The concept of having traded that for ONE person for my whole life? Feels very monochrome and very limiting.
I'm not sure what you call 'material disadvantages' unless the relationship was bad which can happen within a marriage.
Reduces the qualities? How about enhances them? Not just because it's fun but because it's another level of closeness.
Strip the sex and mostly the same things apply to any friendship.
Including it just makes it a different kind of relationship.
Most people don't restrict the number of friends to one. Unless you have personal objections,( and that's everybody's choice to make) there's no reason to restrict romantic/sexual ones to only one.
Let me ask you a question.
Is a second marriage a lesser one because one is no longer a virgin? Is the person then tainted/of lesser value somehow?
I'm not sure what you call 'material disadvantages' unless the relationship was bad which can happen within a marriage.
Reduces the qualities? How about enhances them? Not just because it's fun but because it's another level of closeness.
Strip the sex and mostly the same things apply to any friendship.
Including it just makes it a different kind of relationship.
Most people don't restrict the number of friends to one. Unless you have personal objections,( and that's everybody's choice to make) there's no reason to restrict romantic/sexual ones to only one.
Let me ask you a question.
Is a second marriage a lesser one because one is no longer a virgin? Is the person then tainted/of lesser value somehow?
So you are separating sex from intimacy? Or just exclusivity?
A second marriage happens, I have two sets of parents. It is absolutely not ideal and indeed can be very destructive to the participants and children, even if everyone is happy and it was the right choice given the circumstances. Sexual status is only a small part of that, but again, it doesn’t outweigh all the other relationship factors that are both positive and negative.
The sex thing has nothing to do with intrinsic individual value, I don’t actually get why people keep referring to that. It’s weird and as a religious individual I do not reduce the qualities of the human soul to the level of the flesh and ‘qualities’ therein. But sex is the most intimate act one can exchange with another by definition, bringing oneself into another in a physical sense (and that is heightened when coupled with the emotional and spiritual connection, and further still when permanence and safety/security are entwined). Birth could be argued as a second, and those two are fundamentally and biologically tied together for a reason. Divorcing that intimacy from exclusivity is where I see a massive issue.
You’re welcome to disagree, but I’m not hearing any reason beyond “I like it for me” why.
I hate to ever think of prior connections and relationships as "baggage", personally. Some were great, some were bad, but all were learning or potential learning opportunities. Making connections with people is almost always a good thing.
So you are separating sex from intimacy? Or just exclusivity?.
Of course not, Sex is a very intimate act.
Whether or not exclusivity is desired is up to the individuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmooky
A second marriage happens, I have two sets of parents. It is absolutely not ideal and indeed can be very destructive to the participants and children, even if everyone is happy and it was the right choice given the circumstances. Sexual status is only a small part of that, but again, it doesn’t outweigh all the other relationship factors that are both positive and negative.
Second marriages are not always destructive and certainly the reason for them is not always because of the failure of a first.
I'm not sure of what you're saying with the rest of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmooky
The sex thing has nothing to do with intrinsic individual value, I don’t actually get why people keep referring to that. It’s weird and as a religious individual I do not reduce the qualities of the human soul to the level of the flesh and ‘qualities’ therein. .
I don't know who you are referring to about that but nothing about a persons actions has anything to do with their intrinsic value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmooky
But sex is the most intimate act one can exchange with another by definition, .
I disagree it's the most intimate thing unless only referring to in a physical sense and even then, some 'holding out for marriage' types on here have no compunction about engaging in sexual acts short of
intercourse, some of which I personally consider much more intimate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmooky
bringing oneself into another in a physical sense (and that is heightened when coupling with the emotional and spiritual connection they had permanence and safety/security entwined). Birth could be argued as a second, and those two are fundamentally and biologically tied together for a reason. Divorcing that intimacy from exclusivity is where I see a massive issue. .
I actually hold that God has clearly defined parameters for human interaction, including sexuality, as part of a plan that sin has changed utterly until it is renewed again at his appointed time in history. I wouldn’t actually claim my own authority in this and it’s only an opinion in as much as it is something I believe. But it’s not from my and not predicated in my own understanding of it, as I’m far from infallible.
Apart from that, I can discuss some nuance and opinion, sure. I definitely think your ethic on this is wrong and shallow and indefensible even from non-theistic grounds. Beyond that, though, there isn’t much else to say.
Again, I’m the rare millennial and (sadly) even the rare Christian who still believes this. But my experience with BOTH sides of the virginity coin is that God was very wise in proscribing marriage as the parameters for acceptable sexual intimacy and activity.
You know...interesting point. Sex, intimacy, exclusivity. They are all separate actually. I've had sex with no intimacy. That is generally not a good experience. Being kind of mentally numb, disconnected, nearly dissociated from myself and just going along, waiting for it to be over. Describes pretty well an awful lot of the sex during my marriage. I did not feel emotionally safe with him, so I engaged in act with my body only, not anything more.
So intimacy doesn't necessarily come with exclusivity either.
Neither does sex, as many in sexless marriages will attest.
And I have had very intimate, vulnerable, and/or connected sex with casual partners, though certainly not all of them. And I've been very intimate with people I never had sex with at all. Or had intimate moments that did not include sex or weren't in any way sexual.
I would say my current relationship is probably the only one in my life so far where all of the elements have come together harmoniously.
Maybe it's a matter of different order, though. I get the feeling that most of the "wait until marriage" crowd, would go for exclusivity first, then intimacy, then sex with intimacy (hopefully.) My boyfriend and I did intimacy first, then sex, then eventually exclusivity.
I actually hold that God has clearly defined parameters for human interaction, including sexuality, as part of a plan that sin has changed utterly until it is renewed again at his appointed time in history. I wouldn’t actually claim my own authority in this and it’s only an opinion in as much as it is something I believe. But it’s not from my and not predicated in my own understanding of it, as I’m far from infallible.
Apart from that, I can discuss some nuance and opinion, sure. I definitely think your ethic on this is wrong and shallow and indefensible even from non-theistic grounds. Beyond that, though, there isn’t much else to say.
Again, I’m the rare millennial and (sadly) even the rare Christian who still believes this. But my experience with BOTH sides of the virginity coin is that God was very wise in proscribing marriage as the parameters for acceptable sexual intimacy and activity.
Cool. You do you. Just realize your god isn't everyone else's god, and your doctrinal beliefs and interpretation of Pauline theology isn't upheld by all who identify as Christian.
You know...interesting point. Sex, intimacy, exclusivity. They are all separate actually. I've had sex with no intimacy. That is generally not a good experience. Being kind of mentally numb, disconnected, nearly dissociated from myself and just going along, waiting for it to be over. Describes pretty well an awful lot of the sex during my marriage. I did not feel emotionally safe with him, so I engaged in act with my body only, not anything more.
So intimacy doesn't necessarily come with exclusivity either.
Neither does sex, as many in sexless marriages will attest.
And I have had very intimate, vulnerable, and/or connected sex with casual partners, though certainly not all of them. And I've been very intimate with people I never had sex with at all. Or had intimate moments that did not include sex or weren't in any way sexual.
I would say my current relationship is probably the only one in my life so far where all of the elements have come together harmoniously.
Maybe it's a matter of different order, though. I get the feeling that most of the "wait until marriage" crowd, would go for exclusivity first, then intimacy, then sex with intimacy (hopefully.) My boyfriend and I did intimacy first, then sex, then eventually exclusivity.
Precisely. There can be many forms and facets of intimacy and connection with or without exclusivity. It's certainly possible to enjoy them independent of others if that's your thing, and it can be a wonderful thing to experience the many different forms of connection with a chosen partner.
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) I explored the concept of polyamory, which seemed to suit me well. I had a boyfriend who was poly, he courted in another couple, I fell in love with the wife of that couple, we were a "quad"...but there was still something I needed. I found it in the man I am still with today. He was willing to accept my poly lifestyle, though it wasn't his preference. But it gave us time to build the foundations for what came later, the monosexual committed longterm thing we're trying to do now. And it is going gloriously. 
