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The only potential red flag I see in the scenarios you outlined, OP, is the fact that your guy is ok with being friends with a guy he knows/admits is a jerk. That doesn't make sense to me. He's ok with a guy who has affairs with other men's gf's or wives? Really? A guy who's temperamental, argumentative, and tries to steamroll people? That's odd. What's he getting out of the friendship? What does he perceive his jerk-friend's redeeming qualities to be?
True. She should maybe have a word with him and ask him to not hang out with his friend, but in a way that doesn't come off as manipulative.
The only potential red flag I see in the scenarios you outlined, OP, is the fact that your guy is ok with being friends with a guy he knows/admits is a jerk. That doesn't make sense to me. He's ok with a guy who has affairs with other men's gf's or wives? Really? A guy who's temperamental, argumentative, and tries to steamroll people? That's odd. What's he getting out of the friendship? What does he perceive his jerk-friend's redeeming qualities to be?
A thing that happened in at least a couple of friendships I am aware of in my boyfriend's past, is that as a shy man who wasn't really "successful" with women, and also the sort who is obsessed with seeking answers from self-help books, gurus, life coaches, seminars, etc etc...my boyfriend would be friends with other men who APPEARED to have that "alpha man" personality and be "successful" with women. He thought he had something to learn from them. At first.
What he didn't give as much thought to, but always ended up happening:
- Observation soon showed that these guys in fact led really dramatic lives with messy, unhealthy relationships and bad patterns. This only reinforced my boyfriend's position of staying alone, that he wasn't missing out on anything. Validated his very cautious dating behavior, in not getting involved with just any woman in order to not be alone. Made him feel better about his own life choices, no relationship is better than a bad relationship, and all that.
- These guys' outward confidence was often a front for major internal issues. This comes as no surprise to anyone who has known someone who pretends to be a bigshot and a huge success but just beneath the surface, is a total mess of a person. Boyfriend is the opposite of that. He's outwardly shy and awkward, but inwardly wise and chill and at peace with himself...at least the man I know today. He says it was a long road to get there, and I believe him. But I think it makes him feel better to see past the facade, and realize those people are not, in actuality, "better" than him.
That is my armchair psychoanalysis of these friendships he has had, mostly in the past, but kind of in the present with the one man...though things are getting strained and distant there now.
As for the friend hooking up with the other guys' gfs/wives...my boyfriend disapproved, but he didn't actually think he would ever have a partner for that to be a personal issue between them, so I think he just tried to stay out of it. He doesn't worry about it now with me, he knows I would not in a million years be vulnerable to any attempts by that guy and I think, if he has thought about it at all, it's with a sense of amusement that it might be funny to see me shoot him down. He doesn't feel threatened by the notion.
But beyond all of that dynamic, as I said, there have been a lot of shared interests and shared activities, which makes total sense to me. I don't always want to go to the conventions and some MST3K theater screening event and whatever. There's nothing wrong at all with my guy having friends he can share those things with, I encourage that! That piece makes complete sense to me. The last time my boyfriend got together with his friend, they went to see a movie in the theater that I had zero interest in, but they were both enthusiastic about.
Two things stand out to me. In the first case, you make it sound like you officially told your boyfriend and his friend that you didn't want to be friends with the friend. Am I reading that right? Even if you were encouraging them to hang out, there's no need to make it official. Back when I was younger, some wives and girlfriends of my friends considered me a bad influence. Long story short...even when I had a girlfriend(and later wife) I acted like I was single and they thought I would give their husbands/boyfriends bad ideas(they were right). They weren't going to forbid my friends from hanging out with me, but they managed to stay out of things without officially denouncing the notion of a personal friendship with me. Doesn't help you now but something to think of for the future.
In the second case, you say your boyfriend is almost sixty and you are his first real relationship. This means that when they became friends, he was what...in his early 50's? And never had a real relationship? She probably saw no reason why that would change, so even when he rejected her advances and even when she got in to relationships she figured there would always be later. Until there wasn't. That's what got her all upset. Old Mr. Reliable wasn't able to serve her in that capacity anymore. He's better off leaving that one alone.
A thing that happened in at least a couple of friendships I am aware of in my boyfriend's past, is that as a shy man who wasn't really "successful" with women, and also the sort who is obsessed with seeking answers from self-help books, gurus, life coaches, seminars, etc etc...my boyfriend would be friends with other men who APPEARED to have that "alpha man" personality and be "successful" with women. He thought he had something to learn from them. At first.
What he didn't give as much thought to, but always ended up happening:
- Observation soon showed that these guys in fact led really dramatic lives with messy, unhealthy relationships and bad patterns. This only reinforced my boyfriend's position of staying alone, that he wasn't missing out on anything. Validated his very cautious dating behavior, in not getting involved with just any woman in order to not be alone. Made him feel better about his own life choices, no relationship is better than a bad relationship, and all that.
- These guys' outward confidence was often a front for major internal issues. This comes as no surprise to anyone who has known someone who pretends to be a bigshot and a huge success but just beneath the surface, is a total mess of a person. Boyfriend is the opposite of that. He's outwardly shy and awkward, but inwardly wise and chill and at peace with himself...at least the man I know today. He says it was a long road to get there, and I believe him. But I think it makes him feel better to see past the facade, and realize those people are not, in actuality, "better" than him.
That is my armchair psychoanalysis of these friendships he has had, mostly in the past, but kind of in the present with the one man...though things are getting strained and distant there now.
As for the friend hooking up with the other guys' gfs/wives...my boyfriend disapproved, but he didn't actually think he would ever have a partner for that to be a personal issue between them, so I think he just tried to stay out of it. He doesn't worry about it now with me, he knows I would not in a million years be vulnerable to any attempts by that guy and I think, if he has thought about it at all, it's with a sense of amusement that it might be funny to see me shoot him down. He doesn't feel threatened by the notion.
But beyond all of that dynamic, as I said, there have been a lot of shared interests and shared activities, which makes total sense to me. I don't always want to go to the conventions and some MST3K theater screening event and whatever. There's nothing wrong at all with my guy having friends he can share those things with, I encourage that! That piece makes complete sense to me. The last time my boyfriend got together with his friend, they went to see a movie in the theater that I had zero interest in, but they were both enthusiastic about.
Thanks, OP. This really gives us a lot more info to go on.
Two things stand out to me. In the first case, you make it sound like you officially told your boyfriend and his friend that you didn't want to be friends with the friend. Am I reading that right? Even if you were encouraging them to hang out, there's no need to make it official. Back when I was younger, some wives and girlfriends of my friends considered me a bad influence. Long story short...even when I had a girlfriend(and later wife) I acted like I was single and they thought I would give their husbands/boyfriends bad ideas(they were right). They weren't going to forbid my friends from hanging out with me, but they managed to stay out of things without officially denouncing the notion of a personal friendship with me. Doesn't help you now but something to think of for the future.
In the second case, you say your boyfriend is almost sixty and you are his first real relationship. This means that when they became friends, he was what...in his early 50's? And never had a real relationship? She probably saw no reason why that would change, so even when he rejected her advances and even when she got in to relationships she figured there would always be later. Until there wasn't. That's what got her all upset. Old Mr. Reliable wasn't able to serve her in that capacity anymore. He's better off leaving that one alone.
Yeah, the needing to formally tell the guy "I am respectfully declining friendship with you, please continue to hang with my boyfriend, I just want no part of this personally, have a nice day" spiel...that optimally would have been unnecessary. But he was making persistent and somewhat pushy requests for my attention and presence, so I wanted to politely but firmly put the kibosh on it.
But in addition to that, like the second time we hung out together, he said, "You know, with your hairstyle like that and your John Lennon glasses, you put me in mind of Yoko Ono...just don't break up the Beatles, OK? Huh? Huh??" like he'd made the funniest ever joke. So I had an element of wanting to tell him, that I really, REALLY have nothing against his friendship with my boyfriend, who is a grown man and makes his own choices about who to hang with. I'm not breakin' up nothin'...just leave me alone.
That thing that Millennial Urbanist talks about, how all of his coupled friends vanished and the wife controls them and all... That ain't me. I recognize the value of friendship. On some level I want people like this to understand that I respect what is between them and I'm not trying in any way to threaten it. What my boyfriend chooses...well, it's his business.
Again...suspect my conflict avoidance is involved in it. Don't want people mad at me, even if it's random strangers, or even if I don't like them. But this is not realistic.
True. She should maybe have a word with him and ask him to not hang out with his friend, but in a way that doesn't come off as manipulative.
Who does that? Who tells their SO whom to be friends with, and whom not? I was thinking it could point to a hidden side of his character, but the OP has since cleared that up.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle
Come on, Tim. She was playing around. Engage your sense of humor.
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Yeah, when things are funny, I laugh. Or clever. Or witty. It was one of the problems with living on the west coast. No one there had a half decent sense of humor, if they had any at all. After the last woman from LA I went out with, I've pretty much given up on the state.
OP, does it give you pause that your BF seems to pick his friends badly? Sure, guys should have guy friends but this dude you're describing sounds like an a**. Why is your BF still friends with someone like that?
OP, does it give you pause that your BF seems to pick his friends badly? Sure, guys should have guy friends but this dude you're describing sounds like an a**. Why is your BF still friends with someone like that?
Did you see her post #12, from this morning, addressing that question? She covered it pretty well.
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So I had an element of wanting to tell him, that I really, REALLY have nothing against his friendship with my boyfriend, who is a grown man and makes his own choices about who to hang with. I'm not breakin' up nothin'...just leave me alone.
Who does that? Who tells their SO whom to be friends with, and whom not? I was thinking it could point to a hidden side of his character, but the OP has since cleared that up. 
?
