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Wow, johnnybe, that is very strange behavior. I mean, not wanting to learn those basic things like the phone or computer, even. I would have thought that someone in her situation would be online all day, reaching out, looking for other people to connect to.
Perhaps (well...almost definitely) this is a case of "projecting" too much on my part. But I lost my sex drive in my marriage, too. And my ex believed, as I did, that I just had no interest in it. With the clarity of hindsight, I can say that it was the connection particular to me and him that triggered that effect. It would be difficult for him to understand, because from his male perspective, your sex drive is part of who you are, right? If you don't want your partner, you must want someone else, or else you have no sex drive at all. For me it was more like, when my partner was someone I lost emotional trust and vulnerability for, and felt adversarial towards, I was not able to feel intimate with him anymore. I shut down and withdrew. My sex drive vanished into a safe, locked, dark place where I couldn't reach it anymore. Once I was out of that relationship where I felt emotionally unsafe, it came back with a vengeance. My present boyfriend and I can't get enough of each other!
So she is from another country? See, I really hesitate to give advice when it comes to people from other countries, because often the culture they come from has programmed code into their minds that is so different from anything I've experienced that I really just don't have a clue. She seems to be shying away from a lot of things, though, and if she is just plain unwilling to cooperate in making things any better... Her not knowing what's wrong and why she isn't interested in sex is not the real problem, her being unwilling to try to work on it or explore the issue or anything, IS the problem.
And her wanting someone to just take care of her like a child, with no expectation of anything in return, not even love or affection or happy times together... I mean, it's almost like she wants, not even a roommate, but a parent. She doesn't want to be an adult. Wow. That sucks, man. For both of you.
Thanks for the response.
Let me be clear: I am not innocent of contributing to problems with our marriage. I am overly critical at times and get very angry (not at her so much as at other things outside my control, like the internet service provider or a neighbor or etc). So it is possible that my anger issues do contribute to our marriage problems..
But yeah, the inter-cultural thing is an issue, and the fact she grew up in a family with 12 brothers and sisters makes her very different than me, with one sister, 6 years older than me.
Her mom taught her and her sisters that men were not to be trusted, that even the priest (very respected in her country!) could not be trusted; priests are men; and men are predators! She was actually right to do that in a sense. I agree. But she failed to also teach her daughters that there's nothing wrong with sex between consenting adults and that sex is a good and important part of life and of marriage.
Honestly I very much want to save my marriage but am completely at a loss as to how and increasingly feel it is simply not possible. I think my wife :
is immature (Peter Pan complex or ?)
has little or no experience with Life; the idea of being patient, waiting for bad times to pass
(most importantly) is unable to deal with being alone (or with just me) day after day for days on end (we see one friend a couple times a week, others a couple times a month, go to town to run errands twice a week in addition to seeing a friend twice a week.) To me, this is plenty; but for her it's a prison sentence, and I get that.
But we have no choice. The weather (heavy rains) and bad road makes going to town "whenever we want" dangerous. I did not know this before I actually moved here! I also don't like this and for this reason I also want to move! But we can't until we sell this house....
cares more about living in a more "civilized" populated environment than she cares about continuing to be married to me. I feel that while moving to a place where she has more freedom to be "extroverted" may help, it will not solve all our problems like her lack of interest in sex/affection, her lack of interest in being independent and learning to do things on her own
So... basically I think I made a very bad decision in choosing her for a wife. I was older, (12 years older than her) , had been single for too long, and figured this was "my chance" to get married and be with someone and be happily married.
It just hasn't worked out that way. I still have a LITTLE hope; but looking at the Big Picture, maybe it's time to just give it up and try to find happiness on my own.
The idea of being on my own at 66 years old, after 17 years of marriage, makes me sad and I feel kinda hopeless about finding happiness being single. I was single when I was younger and didn't care for it so much. Now, it sounds even worse.
But will I be happier staying with someone who doesn't want sex, isn't even affectionate, and seems to care ONLY about living in a better situation /place which she sees me as possibly being able to provide for her? I don't know....
Seeing things as they are I feel we both made a big mistake marrying each other, that we truly just are not compatible even though we managed to be relatively happy for 16 years before it went very wrong...
Oh, wow, you two are not even close to the ages I thought you were. So you're 66 and she is...54?
She has had a long time to try and get enough life experience to overcome her "Peter Pan" thing or whatever all that is about. This case just gets stranger and stranger. I'm not sure if she is going be able to transform, at this late stage, into the kind of partner that you want.
I guess some more emotional truths I can share, and maybe they have bearing on your situation, maybe not...though sadly it's looking more and more like your deal has less to do with the whole "a man might want space, but his extrovert wife will go nuts in the boonies" and more to do with other complexities involved. You mentioned that her upbringing that men were "predators" was not entirely wrong. Have you done anything to impress upon her (reinforce) that other men could not be trusted, and she should not interact with them? The fact that my ex painted a picture that other men were always a threat, and only wanted one thing, and were not ever my "friends" made me feel that sexuality was an attack upon my personhood. The combination that he also seemed, in his frustration about our lack of a healthy sex life, as though he didn't care about who I was as a person, only as a needs-source, made me feel dehumanized. I started seeing all sexuality in sum, as dehumanizing, threatening, and since the one man who wanted sex with me the most was him, he got the worst of it. When other men treated me respectfully and with friendship in the world, I actually felt affirmed. But his affirmations towards me just seemed like, "You're only being nice because you want something." In trying to turn me against other men, in hopes that he could be my one and only safe space, he became instead my greatest threat and turned me against only him. I came to believe, "He doesn't get to speak for all men, much as he wants to act like he has that right, he can only speak for himself, and he is telling me who HE is."
Men should be very careful with this. Even if their intentions are good, to encourage their female partner to be safe in the world, instead of framing it as how "men are" they need to frame it as, "some percentage of people out there are bad, and you need to practice good safety in general."
But I was not self-aware enough then to appropriately assess what was going on, I really dug in and got to the heart of these things after we broke up, in hindsight. I couldn't even think about it back then, I was just trying to cope. I didn't want him but I didn't know why, and I know that bit is what you're getting from her.
One suggestion out of the book I recommended, which could have possibly helped slowly rebuild trust and affection, may have been if he were offering, patiently, sessions of enjoyable touch that were distinctly non-sexual, with the clear statement that this activity would not lead to sex. That is a beginning. Massages, brushing my hair, things like that. He could have built from there, to sexual activity focused on my enjoyment, with no demands to satisfy his (re-training that there is nothing predatory about it, that he cares about making me feel good, and that he is not "just" offering any of this to me to "get something.") But it's a path that leads to you getting what you want, that takes time and patience, and her cooperation, to traverse. I don't know if that path is open to you two at this point.
EDIT: Also, for what it's worth, if a woman has been intensely programmed to see men as threatening, then expressions of male anger, even if not directed at her, can be terrifying. It sounds like she is an avoider, that she shuts down in the face of fear, that's why I said that I have the impression that somehow those things she won't grow up and learn, there is some kind of a fear element in there. Avoidance is usually an expression of fear, though the reasons why would take work to dig out...not just a "spoiled baby" mentality.
Thank you for sharing, as this helps all of us in some way in our own lives, Id like to give my advice and that would be, if you want to make it work, I believe you should lend her your ear, what would 1 hour of your day be to just give to her by listening, then go about the rest of your day doing whatever you want. Balance it out, share some time , Its not just me me me , what about her too. Even if it doesnt interest you on certain topics that she might talk about, then pick something that you both have in common or pick a topic that you both agree on to talk about , plant a garden together, something easy, adopt a small tiny little dog to run around in the yard since you live out in the country, it should have plenty of space to run around . Lifes too short to break up, but we dont think about that during the moment.
Oh, wow, you two are not even close to the ages I thought you were. So you're 66 and she is...54?
She has had a long time to try and get enough life experience to overcome her "Peter Pan" thing or whatever all that is about. This case just gets stranger and stranger. I'm not sure if she is going be able to transform, at this late stage, into the kind of partner that you want.
I guess some more emotional truths I can share, and maybe they have bearing on your situation, maybe not...though sadly it's looking more and more like your deal has less to do with the whole "a man might want space, but his extrovert wife will go nuts in the boonies" and more to do with other complexities involved. You mentioned that her upbringing that men were "predators" was not entirely wrong. Have you done anything to impress upon her (reinforce) that other men could not be trusted, and she should not interact with them? The fact that my ex painted a picture that other men were always a threat, and only wanted one thing, and were not ever my "friends" made me feel that sexuality was an attack upon my personhood. The combination that he also seemed, in his frustration about our lack of a healthy sex life, as though he didn't care about who I was as a person, only as a needs-source, made me feel dehumanized. I started seeing all sexuality in sum, as dehumanizing, threatening, and since the one man who wanted sex with me the most was him, he got the worst of it. When other men treated me respectfully and with friendship in the world, I actually felt affirmed. But his affirmations towards me just seemed like, "You're only being nice because you want something." In trying to turn me against other men, in hopes that he could be my one and only safe space, he became instead my greatest threat and turned me against only him. I came to believe, "He doesn't get to speak for all men, much as he wants to act like he has that right, he can only speak for himself, and he is telling me who HE is."
Men should be very careful with this. Even if their intentions are good, to encourage their female partner to be safe in the world, instead of framing it as how "men are" they need to frame it as, "some percentage of people out there are bad, and you need to practice good safety in general."
But I was not self-aware enough then to appropriately assess what was going on, I really dug in and got to the heart of these things after we broke up, in hindsight. I couldn't even think about it back then, I was just trying to cope. I didn't want him but I didn't know why, and I know that bit is what you're getting from her.
One suggestion out of the book I recommended, which could have possibly helped slowly rebuild trust and affection, may have been if he were offering, patiently, sessions of enjoyable touch that were distinctly non-sexual, with the clear statement that this activity would not lead to sex. That is a beginning. Massages, brushing my hair, things like that. He could have built from there, to sexual activity focused on my enjoyment, with no demands to satisfy his (re-training that there is nothing predatory about it, that he cares about making me feel good, and that he is not "just" offering any of this to me to "get something.") But it's a path that leads to you getting what you want, that takes time and patience, and her cooperation, to traverse. I don't know if that path is open to you two at this point.
EDIT: Also, for what it's worth, if a woman has been intensely programmed to see men as threatening, then expressions of male anger, even if not directed at her, can be terrifying. It sounds like she is an avoider, that she shuts down in the face of fear, that's why I said that I have the impression that somehow those things she won't grow up and learn, there is some kind of a fear element in there. Avoidance is usually an expression of fear, though the reasons why would take work to dig out...not just a "spoiled baby" mentality.
Okay... Last year when she was staying with her family for some months I found out she was trying to meet someone else, writing someone through email and planning to visit him - by plane - which almost certainly would have included an overnight stay. I was upset and told her I found out. Furthermore since I found out (without prying, she slipped up and showed me the email) his name and state I did one of those Searches on him. Found out he had a jail record for several domestic abuse charges.
I told her about it, sent her the info from the web site ... Told her I was very sad that she had been dishonest with me and planning to meet this guy. She of course said it had nothing to do with sex (which I believe) and that it had everything to do with just finding someone to provide her a place to stay (which I do NOT believe). From her writing it was clear she was interested in him as a person to replace me with - someone to provide for her, to whatever extent that might be, a new relationship at the very least.
She stopped writing him after she found out he was an abuser of women. I think her sister put her up to meeting him, as she had known him before (tho not well; not well enough to know he was an abuser).
I asked her to come back to me so we could talk this over and most likely say our goodbyes in person and it was my plan that we'd break up then. But she agreed to try to get used to where we live and I told her we'd look into moving somewhere she might like better, a compromise ... She also said I pushed her away before which was partially true. She was complaining so much about living where we live that I got fed up and told her to just GO because I couldn't take her complaining any more... But I thought it was clear that I meant for her to come back after awhile. She says that was not clear, thus her trying to meet someone else...
Anyway yes I explained to her that she has to be very careful in meeting men, and also that most men expect sex from women and that if the man finds out after a short time that she isn't into sex or doesn't want it, he would most likely leave her because of it, not hang with a sexless relationship like I have done... because I love her... I did not say all men are predators, but that all men want sex unless they have some physical or mental problem that makes them not want it. Which is true.
I hug her often and tell her I care about her, love her, in spite of our problems. I tell her I want us to work on our problem(s) and that I don't understand why we were fine for 15 years and now just because we moved here, she no longer even wants to hug or be warm towards me.
Just for the record even today we do hold hands, take walks together, and she says she cares about me and wants me to be happy. But she won't even return a hug with any feeling nor cuddle or ANYthing affectionate. I gave up on trying to have sex 6-8 months ago. If I'd go to her bed and touch her with caresses - not even her private areas - I could feel her uptightness and I'd just quit and get up and go to the other room. It really is as if I'm her sister or brother and not a husband except in the sense that I take out the garbage and clean the toilet and do other things she doesn't like to do, and she does dishes and sews and things like that for us... And I do most of the cooking (not all) because she hates cooking like I hate washing dishes.
She has always responded with fear to my anger and sometimes I do "explode" with anger over a bank or government issue, some sort of frustrating thing like that. I used to throw things etc or just start yelling in anger - years ago - and I saw how this upset her even though it was never directed at her, so I try not to be that way. But once in a while I still lose my temper over bureaucracy or something frustrating. Never towards her. If I did break down and show anger I would always remind her it was not at her and I would never be violent towards her and I never have been, not even threatening it.
But if there is fear in her re not wanting to learn things etc, to things for herself, I think it is simply a fear or being independent or autonomous. She lived at home all her life til we married and never ever learned to live alone and do things on her own other than her job as a teacher.
More and more I am thinking that she is afraid for us to break up because she knows I will at some point stop helping her get through life and she'll have to find someone new which of course is risky given her age, her lack of interest in sex, and her being so needy.
As I said in a previous post even if she meets someone, I believe it will end because she (I think!) is likely to begin withdrawing sex or at least not being good at it, or passionate after at least some time (if not from the beginning) which will turn most any guy off her.
So I really see that I am between a rock and a hard place; we both are, actually.
If we break up I'll be lonely. She will be with her family and get along fine that way - and honestly probably not even miss me! But she'll miss having a man to take care of her and will begin to try to find one... And she'll likely end up like her sister, meeting the wrong men, hooking up with them, and then their dumping her ...
So we'll both end up lonely. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but given our ages and her issues, and where I live, I believe the negative opinion re our future happiness is warranted. So I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't...
I just want things back to at least how they were before we moved here! Then we had issues (the lack of sex thing was a big problem for me) but at least we still got along and had warmth and affection for each other. I still have warmth and affection for her but she no longer wants it and won't or can't even tell me why.
I know I can't go on with this situation and am thinking soon I'll just tell her this isn't working and she has to go... Being lonely and knowing "it's over" will break my heart and make me very sad for a long time. But I can't keep going through this emotional turmoil and her not even wanting to try to work on our problems...
As a woman, I don't get this concept. Yet I have heard people talking about it repeatedly. Sometimes I need space to process my thought/situations, but I usually bounce back or I am not neglectful. But some men pulled back, and people were okay with it. What the heck!
If the guy wants it, you give it to him. Chasing him is only going to make him run away from you faster.
Men and women are different (duh). This includes how we respond and react. As a male, I treasure personal and alone time. It helps me get grounded and regain myself (my roots). It's sort of the primal "cave time" we need. Women share the special needs as well, like crying and sharing feelings. I don't expect women to understand, but then again, there are female traits that I don't understand, even with repeated tries and attempts.
Maybe we can't expect to know and understand everything. But we can respect each's differences, and try not to get bogged down with them.
I don't really think this is true about space that only men need it. I love my own time, my time with just friends not as a couple but just the girls. Everyone is different. I have dated men who were way more clingy and I couldn't date them because they were the ones who didn't understand my need for space.
As a woman, I don't get this concept. Yet I have heard people talking about it repeatedly. Sometimes I need space to process my thought/situations, but I usually bounce back or I am not neglectful. But some men pulled back, and people were okay with it. What the heck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy
I am happily married, but I need space sometimes. I can totally understand a man saying that.
Like a woman doesn’t have a change of mood and want to be left alone. It’s like that
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