Would you date someone if (conversation, feelings, relation, honest)

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by hawaiiancoconut

Remaining friends has never been just up to me. I can only control how I feel. I cant force the other person to remain friends when they dont want to after they catch "feels".

It takes a unique mindset to be in these types of non-committed sexual relationships. For people who believe in monogamy and or wear their hearts on their sleeves, its very difficult to compartmentalize/ suppress emotions that naturally comes with having sex, especially great sex. FWB, Fbuddies, open relationships, etc - definitely not for everyone.

Thanks for this, I agree.

Thing is, I have (as timberline is describing) met people who seem "wired" in such a way that they can go in telling themselves and the other person, that feelings are out of the question, and hold to that. They seem to have a lot of discipline over their own emotions.

Good for them. I'm not that way, either.

I know that my emotions aren't really in my own control, and yeah, if the sex is awesome, I will want more, more, more. But the difference between me and many others, is that I separate out into distinct categories the following:
Emotions/Feelings
Thoughts
Words
Actions

So I might be feeling things. And I may let myself think things, but I have moderately more control over my thoughts and can keep my thinking more or less in line with what I want to do with this other person. Then there are words. I am one who will throw down with my whole thought process and let a person know where I'm at...sometimes they can take it at face value, often though, they will read stuff into it that isn't there, and jump to whatever conclusions they are programmed to have, and act accordingly. Oh, well. My thing is...I had that FB, right? I started to have feelings for him. My position was, "Why can I not simply enjoy what we're doing and enjoy how I'm feeling. Feeling stuff does not mean that I need to grab hold of you, keep you from all other women, move into your house, marry you, or reproduce with you. Just let me ride the ride until it's over, man. This does not have to be a big deal. NOTHING THAT WE'RE DOING HAS TO CHANGE IN ANY MATERIAL WAY WHATSOEVER."

MOST people seem to assume that if you have loving emotions for somebody, you have just simply GOT to take ownership of them and become the standard picket fence monogamous couple, preferably as fast as possible before they get away. That, to me, would obviously freak anyone out who was not on the same page, and that's why most FWB/FB situations go up in flames. Why can't we have the feels, even some words, without necessitating actions? To me, actions are a logistical decision. If you are jumping into life choices because of emotions, you may be making huge mistakes! Hold off on the actions until you are really sure that all aspects of the connection make them logical, sensible, and desirable. I feel like if more people had these kinds of parameters, maybe more people could do casual connections.

But like another poster was talking about these situations where someone gets emotionally attached as a "huge risk" I just don't see it that way. A little emotional discomfort isn't gonna kill me. I'm not fragile enough to hurt or end myself just because my casual sex partner doesn't feel as invested as I do. Even if I'm temporarily convinced he's hung the moon and the stars. Oh, he wants to end it now, I'll moan and whine and complain for a bit, but I'll get over it. And I'll probably learn and grow a lot as a person in the process. Any learning experience, no matter how painful, if you survive it, is a gift from the universe, that's a bit of philosophy I adhere to in life. It helps me live without timidity caused by fear of pain.

So then we have the subject of disclosure (or not) which seems to be a point of contention for some. I very much prefer disclosure, but it is the WAY it's said that makes a difference. Guy says he's got a FWB he'll drop if we get serious...I'm feeling like he's putting a weird and unnatural pressure on me AND that I don't want responsibility for the end or continuation of his FWB connection. The whole thing feels forced, almost like some sort of an ultimatum. Do not like. But if we get to talking about what each of us is up to in dating, and he said, "Well, you know, I've got a couple of connections, a FWB, I've known for years and we hook up sometimes...but lately I'm feeling like that's not really what I want in life. Me and her, well, we know we'd never work for a serious relationship <maybe insert reasons here> but I'm feeling like settling down and just having one committed partner, so I'm hoping I find someone, a connection that works for that, at some point. But ya know. It's either there, or it's not. Meanwhile, I'm just over here living life." THAT is the kind of attitude I am more comfortable with. Chill, not trying to force things, letting me know where he's at.

[ThisTown123]

Originally Posted by Auraliea

What I meant by truly single is not having any type of romantic attachment with anyone at the time. That includes FWBs, FBs, bfs/gfs, casual flings, and the like. Not even an established "flirtationship." That person is just by themselves completely.

Don't forget the new "situationship" they have going around these days.

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by timberline742

That happens because the two people aren't communicating open and honestly and consistently. If both parties make sure to do that, most problems can be avoided. Are feelings sometimes going to get hurt? Sure. Of course. In any relationship, sexual or platonic, feelings are going to get hurt. It's a thing that happens. That's ok.

And honestly, most of the stuff like that posted on here makes me think of relationships people have as youngsters, not as adults.

I think that's a little blithe to be honest. It's one thing to accidentally say something or do something that hurts the other person. It's another thing entirely to simply ignore the potential damage, steaming ahead simply because one wants to get off.



The other problem in your argument is that it kind of assumes that communication is perfect, that both actors function in a steady-state, feeling the same thing after their tenth sexual encounter as they did before their first. One person might misinterpret what another person is saying. Or have a change of heart.



What's more, a huge error is to ignore the physiological aspects of how sex leads to attachment. We are not all a bunch of Vulcans, thinking in terms of pure logic and reason. For example, after sex, the brain releases oxytocin, what scientists term 'the attachment molecule.' Women typically get it in larger doses than men after sex.



Women also usually get a massive dose after childbirth, which is why women develop a nurturing instinct. Ever heard a woman talk about how she felt a rush of love for her newborn that she didn't expect? That's oxytocin in action.



So when you have casual sex, you may be able to walk away without feeling nothing. But don't expect the other person to do so, despite whatever agreement you had before climbing into bed with one another.

[RbccL]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Hah. When I hear the term "judgmental" bandied about, I know I hit a nerve. It's typically used by those who have done some pretty awful things but don't want to face the music.

Thanks for confirming. The quickest way to be convincing that you are judgmental is to tell someone you've decided they must have done some pretty awful things What is it you judge to be awful? And how would one face the music when they don't know what you're judging them on? Well there ya go

And, by the way, nice bit of jujitsu to characterize me as some kind of Victorian. Far from it. But if you have sex with someone, it is a rationalization on your part to think that, if you bump uglies multiple times with someone, one of you won't get attached. There is always an emotional attachment, whether you want to believe it or not.

Yep, one who is Victorian describes sex as "bumping uglies multiple times". You're very romantic. But who am I to judge? I have no opinion on what you do. I think you're work is done here, well done. Next time I need verification of my characterization of a poster's comments I'll let ya know!

[usayit]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Yes, but it requires two. And unless you are a psychic, you really don't know what's going on in the other person's head, or how that person's feelings for you evolve over time. This is why, on this very forum, there are tons of threads that start out as some variation of this:

"You know, I thought I was in a FWB relationship. She come over for Netflix and chill, and then we'd bang it out. She'd head home the next morning. Over the next month or two, we just would get together whenever we felt the itch. But now she wants to meet my friends and family. I was out with friends at 1 a.m. and she was texting me wanting to know where the hell I was. And then she ran into me while I was out on a date and totally lost it. What the hell? I thought we had a clear understanding."


Trust me. That happens waaaaaayyyyy more often than the unicorn, i.e., two people meeting frequently to scratch the itch. And there is real emotional damage when things go wrong.

From where I sit, real genuine FWBs relationships don't happen all that frequently and those that do don't get into trouble that often. In my circle it may seem common but that's not the norm for other reasons.

People get hurt when they over estimate their place or role in other people's lives. That isn't exclusive to FWB relationships. Its just the nature of connecting and disconnecting with people.

Also, you are right.... you never know what's going on in the other person's head. We have threads regarding this.... finding people with the same expectations... finding people with the same views... finding people with the same political leanings... Just like everyone else, you get to know the person and communicate... This isn't exclusive to FWB relationships.

As for me, I've been hurt by friends who I over estimated..... in one particular case it was a male friend so (at least for me) obviously it was platonic. Those that I were my friends and lovers are generally people I've known for a long time and developed an understanding, respect, and trust. People who jump into FWBs very hastily are simply lying to themselves and others with false intentions. Those people give the whole FWBs term a bad connotation.

[ThisTown123]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Yes, but it requires two. And unless you are a psychic, you really don't know what's going on in the other person's head, or how that person's feelings for you evolve over time. This is why, on this very forum, there are tons of threads that start out as some variation of this:

"You know, I thought I was in a FWB relationship. She come over for Netflix and chill, and then we'd bang it out. She'd head home the next morning. Over the next month or two, we just would get together whenever we felt the itch. But now she wants to meet my friends and family. I was out with friends at 1 a.m. and she was texting me wanting to know where the hell I was. And then she ran into me while I was out on a date and totally lost it. What the hell? I thought we had a clear understanding."


Trust me. That happens waaaaaayyyyy more often than the unicorn, i.e., two people meeting frequently to scratch the itch. And there is real emotional damage when things go wrong.

Right. Could A person who can have sex, esp. routinely, and not feel anything, be compared to a person who tortures animals and doesn't feel bad about it?

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by Auraliea

Calling someone a sociopath because you do not understand what type of relationship they're engaging in is unnecessary and no way to have a mature discussion. It's rude, self righteous, ignorant, and condescending. If you don't agree that is fine, but there is no need to personally attack someone else. If I recall no one in this thread who is engaging/has engaged with FWB is asking what other people think of their "arrangements." Because let's be honest, if you had a close friend that you genuinely cared about and valued, you would not disown them because they engage in casual relationships/fwb or call them out of their name.

One person's experience =/= everyone else's. There are exceptions to every rule. No matter how much you want to see it as ONE way.

Oh. So if I actually care about the emotional well-being of the person on the losing end of an FWB situation, I'm suddenly rude, self-righteous, ignorant and condescending. That's kind of funny if you think about it.



Tell you what. Let's go back to the original post. The guy in question told the OP that he was in a FWB situation, but would drop that other woman like a hot potato if she would be with him. I'm pretty certain that the other woman in that situation is likely wondering where her relationship with the guy is, what they'll be doing that weekend, and a host of other things. Suddenly, after sleeping with the guy anywhere between a few times or fifty, he ghosts on her.



Now, sit here and tell me that this is a guy you'd want to date. Deep down, you know that he is ready to casually toss someone aside for someone better, trading up if you will. If you don't think that doesn't devalue the other person, I don't know what to tell you.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

I think that's a little blithe to be honest. It's one thing to accidentally say something or do something that hurts the other person. It's another thing entirely to simply ignore the potential damage, steaming ahead simply because one wants to get off. .

It would be wrong to do so, so, don't ignore it. Be honest and communicate.

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

The other problem in your argument is that it kind of assumes that communication is perfect, that both actors function in a steady-state, feeling the same thing after their tenth sexual encounter as they did before their first. One person might misinterpret what another person is saying. Or have a change of heart. .

This is why communication has to be constant, and non superficial. Assumptions can't be made.

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

What's more, a huge error is to ignore the physiological aspects of how sex leads to attachment. We are not all a bunch of Vulcans, thinking in terms of pure logic and reason. For example, after sex, the brain releases oxytocin, what scientists term 'the attachment molecule.' Women typically get it in larger doses than men after sex. .

And yet I've had plenty of FWBs with women, often lasting years, who do not get emotionally attached to me more than a friend.

The key is self awareness and not doing something that one is capable of. That happens. One women a couple of years ago (KP) and I tried it, it wasn't working for her, so she ended it. Not every relationship type is right for every person.

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Women also usually get a massive dose after childbirth, which is why women develop a nurturing instinct. Ever heard a woman talk about how she felt a rush of love for her newborn that she didn't expect? That's oxytocin in action. .

Nope. I heard plenty complaining about lack of sleep though.

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

So when you have casual sex, you may be able to walk away without feeling nothing. But don't expect the other person to do so, despite whatever agreement you had before climbing into bed with one another.

I never said that I don't feel anything. I usually do. And no one said the discussion of what is going on is a one time thing. For these things to work the communication (like consent) has to be an ongoing discussion.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

I think that's a little blithe to be honest. It's one thing to accidentally say something or do something that hurts the other person. It's another thing entirely to simply ignore the potential damage, steaming ahead simply because one wants to get off.

The other problem in your argument is that it kind of assumes that communication is perfect, that both actors function in a steady-state, feeling the same thing after their tenth sexual encounter as they did before their first. One person might misinterpret what another person is saying. Or have a change of heart.

What's more, a huge error is to ignore the physiological aspects of how sex leads to attachment. We are not all a bunch of Vulcans, thinking in terms of pure logic and reason. For example, after sex, the brain releases oxytocin, what scientists term 'the attachment molecule.' Women typically get it in larger doses than men after sex.

Women also usually get a massive dose after childbirth, which is why women develop a nurturing instinct. Ever heard a woman talk about how she felt a rush of love for her newborn that she didn't expect? That's oxytocin in action.

So when you have casual sex, you may be able to walk away without feeling nothing. But don't expect the other person to do so, despite whatever agreement you had before climbing into bed with one another.

1. As I mentioned more or less in my tl;dr exposition above, life is GOING to hand you some emotional pain sometimes. None of us gets through our existence without experiencing it. I think the mentality of desperately avoiding it at all costs, means that some will let opportunities to live to the fullest pass by. We have to have some kind of balance of risk and reward, here...if you never risk getting hurt, you will also let go chances for joy. Some people probably take too much risk, and we can all spot them, their lives are trainwrecks, chaos never-ending. Not a lot of joy there. Find your balance.

2. I would love to agree with you and on scientific principle (oxytocin etc) that feels correct, yet oddly in my life, my own data doesn't back it up. I've had over twice as many males fall in love with me, than I have with them, when it wasn't expected or part of the program. And I've known a lot of women who have that "I can switch it off" approach to casual sex. There is a chaos factor there. But those few times I've been the one to "catch feels" it has felt utterly out of my control.

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by RbccL

Thanks for confirming. The quickest way to be convincing that you are judgmental is to tell someone you've decided they must have done some pretty awful things What is it you judge to be awful? And how would one face the music when they don't know what you're judging them on? Well there ya go


Yep, one who is Victorian describes sex as "bumping uglies multiple times". You're very romantic. But who am I to judge? I have no opinion on what you do. I think you're work is done here, well done. Next time I need verification of my characterization of a poster's comments I'll let ya know!

Straw man argument. You yourself described a FWB situation where your partner got hurt.