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Then it's really on him to find a way to navigate this "problem," there are way too many variables to take into account here. Not trying to be mean but trying to be realistic. There is no one size fits all manual to this type of stuff and it's definitely not a mathematic equation with a magic formula. That type of thinking just makes it worse.
I agree entirely. I do understand the wish that some people have to discover the manual, though. It doesn't work this way, but feeling like "someone please tell me what to do and I'll do it", can be misguided and a very understandable response at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL
If all I’d known is rejection? How long would I continue on as I had, with no hope of anything else?
Not to be simplistic, but in a sense it is: At the copy machine this morning, I know what I’m supposed to do -put my paper in and close the lid, press the button. Then I was looking at my phone, and then I was looking at the clock, nothing came out. Press the button. Then I looked back at my desk, thinking of all that had to be done, and then I said ‘hi’ to a friend and then I pressed the button. No copy?! Oh, what I’m doing isn’t enough to get what I want. Stop, focus, what’s the problem? Put some more paper in, and press the button. Here’s my copy. Success.
Should I have just given up and said I’m never ever using that machine again? Or is there something in my head that knows it works for other people, keep trying? It’s not because I’ve successfully made a copy before, but because I have the attitude that it can be done, so I’ll have to figure it out- just as I do with all obstacles.
It's not always the case with every man who posts here about his dating frustrations, but At Arms Length seems to be genuinely interested in figuring this out. I can relate to the mindset he may or may not have that his opportunity to connect with a woman is scarce and gets more scarce as time and failed efforts pile up. That's not an ideal mindset, but I get it. It makes the next effort seem even more crucial, and leads to wanting to get it just right this time. And the sad part is that there's no "just right".
Directed at Arms Length now, while there's no playbook, there are general things you can do that are good for you and which never hurt your chance to meet someone. You seem like someone who might grow on a woman once she gets to know you better, so you need to figure out how to be around women in non dating situations. You've had lots of suggestions on that. I'm not suggesting that you make friends with women in the hope that they'll develop romantic feelings for you. I'm suggesting that being around women with no expectations may help you use your considerable analytical skills to figure some of this out. Auraliea and Rbccl seem on target in saying this is a common issue, but the solution will be unique to you.
Pay attention to your appearance, exercise, and generally take care of yourself as if you had that responsibility for a loved one. Being good to yourself that way may improve your appearance a bit, but it certainly sends a strong signal to you and anyone else that you matter. Greet the world like you just got good news. That's a healthy way to be, whether it attracts a woman's attention or not.
I agree that people are often well meaning, and they may try to see the other person's perspective, but still miss some important aspect of it. Not to get too philosophical, but it's really tough to know anyone else's experience.
I don’t think most care all that much. That’s not a knock on them I’m the same way we’re all inherently selfish/self perserving I think people are concerned about what affects them as they should be.
I think my problem over the years is caring too much about people and not being selfish enough when most people aren’t sh1t.
Believe you me, most of my responses were wishy-washy interest/ indecisive to out right flaky behavior.
I know of some women that admitted to giving a guy his # and when he'd call and leave a vm, they purposely would not respond to see how many times he tries again. I think after 3 times, they actually pick up the phone.
A male friend of mine I know would call a woman, but would stop after one try. When he told some female friends this, they said "You give up too easily"
So apparently, if there's no firm "No", it's still a green or yellow light.
"Give up too easily".
A woman that starts with the games is going to lose me quickly. Like women have options, men have options too (too a lesser extent admittedly). Some people just don't have time for games.
Often times, it's the stalker/creeper/control freak types that are going to keep pushing after a no. Girls that want to play that kind of game may run the risk of winding up in a chaotic relationship with someone who is unstable and volatile.
Yep. And not wanting an arm around me is not a behavior issue that needs correcting. I've been on many dates where I wasn't comfortable with that kind of closeness at the start of a date with someone I hadn't really interacted with. That doesn't mean I'm unaffectionate. It means I don't know you like that or we haven't developed chemistry/interest/connection for me to be comfortable with getting cozy/huggy.
Yeah, I LOL'ed uncomfortably at the "correct her behavior" part. I'm thinking to just find a woman who is more in line with what you want... they're out there.
I try to understand. I think sometimes I come close, even if I'm not in other people's shoes.
If anything I have one part of my life that has emotional echoes to what men are experiencing in these scenarios. It is nothing to a lifetime of rejection for love and/or sex, but as a child I was pretty well rejected by all of my peers. All of them. Consistently. Hated, bullied, shunned and rejected. And that feeling of isolation, and not knowing why you are so different and feeling outcast and unloved... At a deep and basic level I understand it very well. That little girl that no one liked, who eventually grew and morphed into something very different, would genuinely like to help in any possible way she possibly can, to encourage and coach others in finding a path to happiness, as long as they are decent souls with legitimate difficulties and a legitimate will to try and help themselves.
I think you're exemplary in this regard. You make people feel listened to, which is often more important than specific advice.
Yeah I don’t think most people try to put themselves in someone else’s shoes.. they mean well but it’s mostly cliche advice on something they don’t know the pain of
I don't feel like posting about any of the main traumatic events in my life, lessor so was the drug addiction of, and abuse from a former spouse, with a child involved. Someone a movie of the week could have been made of, secret life, meth in the woods, tools flying, chainsaw going at 3 in the morning... dead body. And that isn't even the worst. I mean personal unbelievable experiences that could cause one to become suicidal.
Do you put yourself in someone else's shoes? If you did you may also see things from a different perspective, if one thing causes you pain, the only way out is to do something different.
I think I have tried to give step by step advice in the past, when someone is genuine. I know Sonic just did in this thread. Is any of it actually practiced and put to use though? Does it get speed-read and forgotten, then the "painful situation" is brought up again?
Yeah, I LOL'ed uncomfortably at the "correct her behavior" part. I'm thinking to just find a woman who is more in line with what you want... they're out there.
Even with my own husband, I don't want him to put an arm around me as we're out walking. It's not comfortable to have someone attached to you in that way. The only time I ever recall him doing that was leaving the hospital at 4am after my mother passed away. Otherwise, we might hold hands, or I'll most often tuck my hand into the crook of his arm as we walk. I completely understand a woman not wanting a practical stranger to hold her so closely.
That aside, re: the manual comments. It couldn't be more true that there isn't a script or manual to follow. Thinking there is also assumes all women are the same and all respond the same way.
Hitch was only a movie but I sometimes feel that some here could use a life coach or dating coach to give them the once-over. Do you walk with purpose or shuffle along? How's your posture? Are you bent over into yourself? Do you make eye contact or look furtively around you without looking at anyone? How do you dress, style your hair? Do you look open to conversation or completely closed off? There are so many non-verbal clues that you display to the world that tell everyone about you. What message are you sending versus wanting to send?
Where are your parents, uncles, brothers, friends, any sort of male mentor or role model who can guide you? Those are the people to seek for feedback since we can't see you to know what is actually going on or going wrong with you.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty2011
Where are your parents, uncles, brothers, friends, any sort of male mentor or role model who can guide you? Those are the people to seek for feedback since we can't see you to know what is actually going on or going wrong with you.
This is what I'm wondering. I'm different from other people. It was my friends in my 20s that gave me much much needed tough love to get me to get my stuff together, change how I was living, thinking. They knew me, cared about me. Why aren't these people helping these people? Sure, there is a time and place for stranger advice... an outside perspective, but this is rarely one of those.
If they don't have close friends... well, hey buddy, skip the relationship junk! Gotta walk before you run. Focus on developing real friendships!
Even with my own husband, I don't want him to put an arm around me as we're out walking. It's not comfortable to have someone attached to you in that way. The only time I ever recall him doing that was leaving the hospital at 4am after my mother passed away. Otherwise, we might hold hands, or I'll most often tuck my hand into the crook of his arm as we walk. I completely understand a woman not wanting a practical stranger to hold her so closely.
That aside, re: the manual comments. It couldn't be more true that there isn't a script or manual to follow. Thinking there is also assumes all women are the same and all respond the same way.
Hitch was only a movie but I sometimes feel that some here could use a life coach or dating coach to give them the once-over. Do you walk with purpose or shuffle along? How's your posture? Are you bent over into yourself? Do you make eye contact or look furtively around you without looking at anyone? How do you dress, style your hair? Do you look open to conversation or completely closed off? There are so many non-verbal clues that you display to the world that tell everyone about you. What message are you sending versus wanting to send?
Where are your parents, uncles, brothers, friends, any sort of male mentor or role model who can guide you? Those are the people to seek for feedback since we can't see you to know what is actually going on or going wrong with you.
Unless somebody is there while you’re trying to attract someone and sees what you’re doing wrong or their completely walking with their head down and a total social and/ or physical mess it’s hard for someone to know exactly why somebody can’t attract the opposite sex. It’s not a mathematical equation
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