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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
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There is lots of "wiggle" room. I can be horny as all heck, in general, and not want to have sex with a particular person because I'm not feeling close to them. Lots of reasons to not want to have sex with an individual outside of low libido.
Testosterone is closely linked to libido for men. Estrogen (in addition to testosterone) for women. Nothing new there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranredd
As for "don't do that in your relationships", I never said I had that problem to solve.
Then what is the thread about if not you? I'm getting lost.
I think that sex is extremely important in relationships.
That is not to be mistaken for me saying that it is very important that people in relationships have sex.
It's important that they be compatible in their views, in their needs, able to discuss it honestly. A host of relationship difficulties can be linked to sex problems, but sex problems aren't always the root issue, sometimes they are a big flag waving in the wind, signalling major issues that the people feel unable to handle properly. That's how it was in my marriage. My ex thought that the fact that we weren't having sex as much as he wanted to, was because I had a low libido and that it was the root problem. In fact, I'd quickly lost respect and trust for him, early in the relationship, and I was trying to carry on because we had kids together, because he wasn't 100% a terrible person deserving of being "punished" by me leaving him, because I was afraid of what he'd do if I did, because I at times I didn't really know how I'd even survive, let alone with kids, on my own without his help. Survival was more important to me, than either of us getting to be in a fulfilling romantic relationship. My kids not being in poverty was more important to me. Trying to be a decent human being and not be "selfish" and break up my marriage just so that I could "be happy" was more important to me. The root problem that caused me to not want sex with him, was not solvable. I tried. I listened and I talked, I counseled and I coached, I negotiated, I tried ultimatums, I tried everything I could think of to try and get him to just BE a man I could respect and trust, a good partner and parent. But a tiger doesn't just change his stripes. It got worse instead of better.
I tried to meet his sexual needs, even though I did not want to. Countless nights where I went into the bathroom afterwards to clean myself up, with silent tears running down my face, not knowing why I felt so disgusted with him and with myself for doing what I should be finding joy in doing. Thinking I was a terrible human being, and it was my fault he was a bad husband because I was such a bad wife. And no matter if I made sure we got the deed done a few times a week, it was never good enough. He would claim I never did this or that act with him, even if I frequently did. Well, I had no passion or heart for it, so perhaps it was just so forgettable. He would lecture me for hours on end about all the ways in which I was unsatisfying to him sexually. That just made me feel worse about everything to do with sex.
Can you really look at a pile of crap like that and call it a simple matter of "mismatched libido?" I can't.
Before him, and after him, I've in fact had very high desire and a very fun and adventurous spirit toward all things sex. But when we were together, sex was linked with shame and self-loathing. And those were the "good years" in our relationship.
And THAT is why I advise people (who won't listen, but whatever) to wait, take your time, find your footing as a capable adult on your own, give yourself the time to grow up fully (about 25 years old) and give the relationship time to mature before you move in together and especially before you have children. If it hadn't been for the kids, I would not have stayed with him so long.
There is lots of "wiggle" room. I can be horny as all heck, in general, and not want to have sex with a particular person because I'm not feeling close to them. Lots of reasons to not want to have sex with an individual outside of low libido.
Testosterone is closely linked to libido for men. Estrogen (in addition to testosterone) for women. Nothing new there.
Then what is the thread about if not you? I'm getting lost.
I'm trying to understand the rationale behind sex being "not a big deal" and expecting your partner not to want to leave/divorce/cheat/etc. This would only apply to those that have changed there sexual outlook without informing their partner that things have changed.
I think that sex is extremely important in relationships.
That is not to be mistaken for me saying that it is very important that people in relationships have sex.
It's important that they be compatible in their views, in their needs, able to discuss it honestly. A host of relationship difficulties can be linked to sex problems, but sex problems aren't always the root issue, sometimes they are a big flag waving in the wind, signalling major issues that the people feel unable to handle properly. That's how it was in my marriage. My ex thought that the fact that we weren't having sex as much as he wanted to, was because I had a low libido and that it was the root problem. In fact, I'd quickly lost respect and trust for him, early in the relationship, and I was trying to carry on because we had kids together, because he wasn't 100% a terrible person deserving of being "punished" by me leaving him, because I was afraid of what he'd do if I did, because I at times I didn't really know how I'd even survive, let alone with kids, on my own without his help. Survival was more important to me, than either of us getting to be in a fulfilling romantic relationship. My kids not being in poverty was more important to me. Trying to be a decent human being and not be "selfish" and break up my marriage just so that I could "be happy" was more important to me. The root problem that caused me to not want sex with him, was not solvable. I tried. I listened and I talked, I counseled and I coached, I negotiated, I tried ultimatums, I tried everything I could think of to try and get him to just BE a man I could respect and trust, a good partner and parent. But a tiger doesn't just change his stripes. It got worse instead of better.
I tried to meet his sexual needs, even though I did not want to. Countless nights where I went into the bathroom afterwards to clean myself up, with silent tears running down my face, not knowing why I felt so disgusted with him and with myself for doing what I should be finding joy in doing. Thinking I was a terrible human being, and it was my fault he was a bad husband because I was such a bad wife. And no matter if I made sure we got the deed done a few times a week, it was never good enough. He would claim I never did this or that act with him, even if I frequently did. Well, I had no passion or heart for it, so perhaps it was just so forgettable. He would lecture me for hours on end about all the ways in which I was unsatisfying to him sexually. That just made me feel worse about everything to do with sex.
Can you really look at a pile of crap like that and call it a simple matter of "mismatched libido?" I can't.
Before him, and after him, I've in fact had very high desire and a very fun and adventurous spirit toward all things sex. But when we were together, sex was linked with shame and self-loathing. And those were the "good years" in our relationship.
And THAT is why I advise people (who won't listen, but whatever) to wait, take your time, find your footing as a capable adult on your own, give yourself the time to grow up fully (about 25 years old) and give the relationship time to mature before you move in together and especially before you have children. If it hadn't been for the kids, I would not have stayed with him so long.
Not that it matters, but did you lose respect/trust for him before or after the kids?
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranredd
I'm trying to understand the rationale behind sex being "not a big deal" and expecting your partner not to want to leave/divorce/cheat/etc. This would only apply to those that have changed there sexual outlook without informing their partner that things have changed.
What is there to understand? To some people in some relationships, and to some people in any relationship, sex is not a big deal.
That does not mean they want the relationship to end.
That does not mean (if monogamous) they want the person to cheat and betray their trust.
The rationale seems pretty self evident to me. What part is hanging you up?
You seem to think this is also a conscious decision (to change their "sexual outlook") and that the partner can't tell that things have changed? I'm not sure I'm following that at all. I would think a partner can tell if their partner wants more sex with them or less sex with them.
What is there to understand? To some people in some relationships, and to some people in any relationship, sex is not a big deal.
That does not mean they want the relationship to end.
That does not mean (if monogamous) they want the person to cheat and betray their trust.
The rationale seems pretty self evident to me. What part is hanging you up?
You seem to think this is also a conscious decision (to change their "sexual outlook") and that the partner can't tell that things have changed? I'm not sure I'm following that at all. I would think a partner can tell if their partner wants more sex with them or less sex with them.
Here's the thing. In the beginning both people like x. After some time or due to cause, one person like x and now the other likes y. In the case that the person that likes y, they like it y without informing the other party. It isn't raised as a red flag until person liking x brings it up. I'm saying, why doesn't the person that likes y not communicate it so that things can be adjusted. I just don't see why someone that now changes a dynamic of the relationship expects the other to stay without having a discussion/communication of the change.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranredd
Here's the thing. In the beginning both people like x. After some time or due to cause, one person like x and now the other likes y. In the case that the person that likes y, they like it y without informing the other party. It isn't raised as a red flag until person liking x brings it up. I'm saying, why doesn't the person that likes y not communicate it so that things can be adjusted. I just don't see why someone that now changes a dynamic of the relationship expects the other to stay without having a discussion/communication of the change.
You do understand that these things aren't generally epiphanies and wax and wane over time normally? It isn't like. Oh. I want sex with person 1 4x a week. Now I decide I want it 1x bi-weekly. I must inform them a change in my "sexual outlook" with them to prevent any conflict.
I mean, what? That isn't how people generally work. These things are gradual, and often even the person that is changing doesn't even realize it in the moment until the other person points it out. I've definitely been on both sides of that.
And what would be adjusted anyway? What adjustment?
We all know its not the only thing important in a relationship, but people seem to think its not that important; especially as the relationship lengthens and has more responsibilities thrust upon it.
While thinking about this question, I always find it odd that sex outside of an open relationship is typically grounds for ending it. Even the suggestion of such would have people thinking the relationship should end rather than cheating. It just doesn't seem reasonable that sex is so unimportant while in the relationship but it could be the grounds for ending it.
Just wanted to get everyone else's perspective.
I see what you are saying here. I think in our culture people are supposed to value only sleeping with one person. It's the " right" thing to do. I think deep down many people don't value only one sexual partner as much as they say they do. I find open relationships much more common now.
I have said in the past I would leave my husband if he cheated. But it's not because of the actual act. It would be because he didn't talk to me about it, lied to me, etc. If he came up to me and wanted to talk about an open marriage or whatever the case may be, that is a different story. We were both pretty free in the past ( as in don't believe you save yourself for marriage etc), so it wouldn't be shocking to either of us. We are fully monogamous now. I want us to be able to talk about anything, including if our marriage wasn't working, we had desires for others, etc.
I think that sex is extremely important in relationships.
That is not to be mistaken for me saying that it is very important that people in relationships have sex.
It's important that they be compatible in their views, in their needs, able to discuss it honestly. A host of relationship difficulties can be linked to sex problems, but sex problems aren't always the root issue, sometimes they are a big flag waving in the wind, signalling major issues that the people feel unable to handle properly. That's how it was in my marriage. My ex thought that the fact that we weren't having sex as much as he wanted to, was because I had a low libido and that it was the root problem. In fact, I'd quickly lost respect and trust for him, early in the relationship, and I was trying to carry on because we had kids together, because he wasn't 100% a terrible person deserving of being "punished" by me leaving him, because I was afraid of what he'd do if I did, because I at times I didn't really know how I'd even survive, let alone with kids, on my own without his help. Survival was more important to me, than either of us getting to be in a fulfilling romantic relationship. My kids not being in poverty was more important to me. Trying to be a decent human being and not be "selfish" and break up my marriage just so that I could "be happy" was more important to me. The root problem that caused me to not want sex with him, was not solvable. I tried. I listened and I talked, I counseled and I coached, I negotiated, I tried ultimatums, I tried everything I could think of to try and get him to just BE a man I could respect and trust, a good partner and parent. But a tiger doesn't just change his stripes. It got worse instead of better.
I tried to meet his sexual needs, even though I did not want to. Countless nights where I went into the bathroom afterwards to clean myself up, with silent tears running down my face, not knowing why I felt so disgusted with him and with myself for doing what I should be finding joy in doing. Thinking I was a terrible human being, and it was my fault he was a bad husband because I was such a bad wife. And no matter if I made sure we got the deed done a few times a week, it was never good enough. He would claim I never did this or that act with him, even if I frequently did. Well, I had no passion or heart for it, so perhaps it was just so forgettable. He would lecture me for hours on end about all the ways in which I was unsatisfying to him sexually. That just made me feel worse about everything to do with sex.
Can you really look at a pile of crap like that and call it a simple matter of "mismatched libido?" I can't.
Before him, and after him, I've in fact had very high desire and a very fun and adventurous spirit toward all things sex. But when we were together, sex was linked with shame and self-loathing. And those were the "good years" in our relationship.
And THAT is why I advise people (who won't listen, but whatever) to wait, take your time, find your footing as a capable adult on your own, give yourself the time to grow up fully (about 25 years old) and give the relationship time to mature before you move in together and especially before you have children. If it hadn't been for the kids, I would not have stayed with him so long.
Couldn't rep you girl but I want you to know you are an inspiration to me
The importance of sex in a relationship really depends on the individual. Some people need a lot and some don't. If there is a mismatch in libido and priority involving sex, you are gonna have problems for sure. It can damage a person's self esteem greatly if refused.
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