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A different take: For 40+ years they have an established relationship, way of living, friends, family, hobbies, activities. A lousy experience for Barb at the reunion, which she seems to have overreacted to. But then a blast from the past in the way of a childhood friend and a get together with some of the people from the reunion who weren't friends and Barb wasn't invited. Twice.
Change is different and can create uncertainty. Why now? After all these years is something missing that seeing these other people is fulfilling?
The main reason wasn't that something was missing; it was that I had to kill an hour at lunchtime a mile away from where the lunches were. It was convenient, and a welcome distraction from the sadness of the nursing home environment. (It was a great nursing home but there's no avoiding the reasons the residents are there.)
The other factor was Ted. Here was an old friend, going back to kindergarten and elementary school, whom I hadn't seen in almost 50 years. I just enjoyed reminiscing with him.
I agree I should have invited Barb. I explained why I didn't in previous posts, but it was nonetheless a mistake. I paid a price for that.
This content here, tells me pretty clearly that she's got some self esteem based insecurities, and that you triggered them.
. (snip)
I would guarantee that there is a deeply rooted reason that she sees other women as being so threatening.
I'm sure you're right. I don't know what the reason is. I wish I did. I'm not sure I could do anything to alleviate it, but it would help to understand.
I'm presenting this in the third person in hope of being impartial. The summary explains the basic situation but it's important to consider the back stories after it.
Summary:
Sam and Barb have been together 40 years; they are in their late 60's. They have shared interests and values, no separations, no infidelities of any sort. They get along well, probably better than the average couple.
Recently Sam reconnected with Ted, an old friend from elementary school. They hadn't been in touch in 50 years. Ted told him of a group of mostly women from their high school class who meet occasionally for lunch. Ted was going to the next lunch and invited Sam to join him.
Sam went to the lunch. There were three men and fourteen women, all high school classmates. Sam enjoyed seeing Ted again, also catching up with the others. The high school they all went to was small so they all knew each other back then. Sam was never close friends with, nor dated, any of the women.
Is this acceptable? Is it okay for a married man go to an occasional lunch with a group of former high school classmates with that sort of gender division – far more women than men?
Broader circumstances:
Barb's perspective:
Eleven years ago Sam and Barb attended Sam's 40th high school reunion. After dinner Sam spent most of the evening circulating the room, talking with former classmates. Barb felt abandoned. Sam thought he was leaving her with the wife of a classmate but that person didn't spend much time with her. Barb felt deserted and disrespected.
The next day Barb made clear how angry and hurt she was. Sam apologized profusely. Barb accepted his apology but has never completely gotten over it. Once in a while, when she gets angry at Sam, she brings up his reunion neglect.
Some of the women at the lunch were at the reunion and Barb is threatened by that, although none of them were the people Sam talked with at the reunion.
Sam is outgoing and funny; he likes to make people laugh. Barb believes that comes across as flirty, and she's threatened by how the women might react to it.
Barb feels that it's inappropriate for him to have lunch with a group that is predominately female, with only Ted having been his good friend. Barb thinks that if Sam wants to spend time with Ted, he should do it other than at the lunches.
Sam's perspective:
The lunches occur in a different town from where Sam & Barb live. Sam's mother is in a nursing home in that town, about a mile from the restaurant. Sam visits his mother regularly and spends all day with her. The nursing home doesn't permit visitors in the residents' dining room during lunch, so he eats a sandwich in his car during that hour. He thinks it's reasonable to go to the classmate lunches since he's already in town, it's a chance to visit with Ted, and he would otherwise eat alone in his car.
Who is right? Is it acceptable for Sam to attend the lunches or not?
Thanks.
Hmmm... Very good of you to provide the crucial history background.
Couldn't you see Tom one-on-one occasionally, or maybe include the other guy as well, and forego these larger reunions, in light of Barb's feelings? Is it really that important? I get that Sam's a social guy, but couldn't he make this one sacrifice for his wife? Are there other contexts in which you can enjoy your social skills (work parties, bowling league or similar, gatherings with friends)?
It's clear that Barb completely misread that initial reunion situation, and it's unfortunate that it turned out the way it did. She should understand you didn't mean any harm, and had no idea she'd been abandoned. Mistakes happen. But in view of her inability to get over it, I think it best if you avoid these other reunions.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 01-23-2019 at 12:06 PM..
Oh, there is one thing I should add. This is important and I should have included it sooner.
After the reunion Barb said interpreted my neglect of her as me being ashamed of her. That is so far from the truth that I still can hardly believe it. I married "up", as they say. I'm more than proud of her, but she didn't take it that way that night, or so she said afterward.
OP, do you tell her you're proud of her? You say you get along better perhaps than most married couples (from your perspective. Is that also her perspective?), so I assume you two share plenty of bonding moments, express affection regularly unrelated to sex, go out and enjoy experiences together, etc. But you might take a look at that, and see if there's more you could be doing.
Is there anything in Barb's early history, that could have contributed to her self-esteem issue? You're her husband; back when you were dating, she might have shared about one or more incidents growing up, when she was put down, bullied or embarrassed? If you don't recall any conversations about that, I don't know how you'd broach it with her, but it seems like this needs to be discussed, even if you do skip the big group reunions, which I think would be best.
Hmmm... Very good of you to provide the crucial history background.
Couldn't you see Tom one-on-one occasionally, or maybe include the other guy as well, and forego these larger reunions, in light of Barb's feelings? Is it really that important? I get that Sam's a social guy, but couldn't he make this one sacrifice for his wife? Are there other contexts in which you can enjoy your social skills (work parties, bowling league or similar, gatherings with friends)?
It's clear that Barb completely misread that initial reunion situation, and it's unfortunate that it turned out the way it did. She should understand you didn't mean any harm, and had no idea she'd been abandoned. Mistakes happen. But in view of her inability to get over it, I think it best if you avoid these other reunions.
I only went twice. When it was clear how much it bothered her, I never went again. Then the circumstances that took me to town changed so it became moot.
OP, do you tell her you're proud of her? You say you get along better perhaps than most married couples (from your perspective. Is that also her perspective?), so I assume you two share plenty of bonding moments, express affection regularly unrelated to sex, go out and enjoy experiences together, etc. But you might take a look at that, and see if there's more you could be doing.
Is there anything in Barb's early history, that could have contributed to her self-esteem issue? You're her husband; back when you were dating, she might have shared about one or more incidents growing up, when she was put down, bullied or embarrassed? If you don't recall any conversations about that, I don't know how you'd broach it with her, but it seems like this needs to be discussed, even if you do skip the big group reunions, which I think would be best.
The only big incident in her childhood that she's spoken of relates to trust issues rather than self-esteem. Her parents lied to her on a significant occasion. It was to protect her, but after she discovered the truth she felt betrayed. She's told me that story a few times over the years. It's hard to accept that something that happened to a child 60 years ago would carry over to the lunch gatherings, but then again those parent-child issues can have a big impact.
At least I don't have to worry about her holding a reunion grudge for 60 years, as neither of us is planning to live to 120.
Unless someone's unresolved past issues affect everyday life, chalk it up to "weird s*** can happen"
In the future, if you're invited again , ask your wife to go with you. If she doesn't want to and
doesn't want you to go either, how about asking your wife to invite your old friend out with the two of you or at your house for a reminiscence get together?,
If, as you've indicated, the whole thing is done and over with, so should this thread be.
I'm presenting this in the third person in hope of being impartial. The summary explains the basic situation but it's important to consider the back stories after it.
Summary:
Sam and Barb have been together 40 years; they are in their late 60's. They have shared interests and values, no separations, no infidelities of any sort. They get along well, probably better than the average couple.
Recently Sam reconnected with Ted, an old friend from elementary school. They hadn't been in touch in 50 years. Ted told him of a group of mostly women from their high school class who meet occasionally for lunch. Ted was going to the next lunch and invited Sam to join him.
Sam went to the lunch. There were three men and fourteen women, all high school classmates. Sam enjoyed seeing Ted again, also catching up with the others. The high school they all went to was small so they all knew each other back then. Sam was never close friends with, nor dated, any of the women.
Is this acceptable? Is it okay for a married man go to an occasional lunch with a group of former high school classmates with that sort of gender division – far more women than men?
Broader circumstances:
Barb's perspective:
Eleven years ago Sam and Barb attended Sam's 40th high school reunion eleven years ago. After dinner Sam spent most of the evening circulating the room, talking with former classmates. Barb felt abandoned. Sam thought he was leaving her with the wife of a classmate but that person didn't spend much time with her.
The next day Barb made clear how angry and hurt she was. Sam apologized profusely. Barb accepted his apology but has never completely gotten over it. Once in a while, when she gets angry at Sam, she brings up his reunion neglect.
Some of the women at the lunch were at the reunion and Barb is threatened by that, although none of them were the people Sam talked with at the reunion.
Sam is outgoing and funny; he likes to make people laugh. Barb believes that comes across as flirty, and she's threatened by how the women might react to it.
Barb feels that it's inappropriate for him to have lunch with a group that is predominately female, with only Ted having been his good friend. Barb thinks that if Sam wants to spend time with Ted, he should do it other than at the lunches.
Sam's perspective:
The lunches occur in a different town from where Sam & Barb live. Sam's mother is in a nursing home in that town, about a mile from the restaurant. Sam visits his mother regularly and spends all day with her. The nursing home doesn't permit visitors in the residents' dining room during lunch, so he eats a sandwich in his car during that hour. He thinks it's reasonable to go to the classmate lunches since he's already in town, it's a chance to visit with Ted, and he would otherwise eat alone in his car.
Who is right? Is it acceptable for Sam to attend the lunches or not?
Thanks.
If fault were to be apportioned, it would be 95% Barb's fault and 5% Sam's fault.
Okay, Sam marooned Barb at his high school reunion ELEVEN YEARS AGO. Perhaps he should have circled back occasionally to check on his wife, but these were people he hadn't seen in years. If Barb were a normal adult, she would have found other people to talk to or--Wow, what a concept--strolled over to her husband and introduced herself to whomever Sam was having a conversation with. Barb felt deserted and disrespected and has punished Sam for this for ELEVEN YEARS, given that she admits that she is still not completely over it. Sam is a freaking saint for putting up this petty resentment for that period of time. If I were Sam, and unless Barb had caught me making the beast with two backs in the janitor's closet with the former homecoming queen, I would have pretty much told her to get over it after about two minutes.
Meanwhile, Barb is coming unglued over what appears to be an innocent gathering of old acquaintances. Barb also is very insecure and neurotic, harboring resentments over something happened ELEVEN YEARS AGO. This would be quite suffocating for any sane person. Barb needs to be careful lest Sam gets tired of her controlling ways, turning her fears into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
All I have to say is thank God I don't have a neurotic, controlling wife. I'm in a line of work where I have meet, lunch, and travel with women colleagues all the time. I've never crossed the line and can't imagine a situation where I would. And more than a couple of times, I've had overtures tossed my way, all duly reported to my wife. But she has never behaved in the way Barb is described. Barb, to be completely honest with you, sounds like a bit of a freak.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 01-23-2019 at 06:07 PM..
At the ski resort where I've been my whole adult life, I'm part of a social circle of married couples where I'm often the only single guy. These are lifetime friends. I have often gotten invited to girl's events when their husbands weren't around. Skiing. Out for happy hour. Dinner somewhere. I'm included on 6 or 7 person text message threads where I'm the only guy. My girlfriend busts me on it. She's a director in the health care industry where there are tons of women and she doesn't like socializing with women. I'm just one of the girls. Of course, the men are way bigger gossips than the women.
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