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On the other hand, I bet substantially less Americans in the 1960th were on anti depressants. Those expensive placebos don't really help much but they are addictive and can lead to weight gain and other health problems. I am also pretty sure that in the 1960s, more Americans cooked their meals from high quality ingredients, and exercised more. More people walked and were physically active. There probably were less harmful and additives additives in food.
So I am not sure that all Americans live healthier now just because of less smoking. Probably well to do middle/upper middle class Americans who watch what they eat, exercise and smoke/drink in moderation are more healthy now than in the 1960th. But working class is a lot worse off...
Are you kidding? Benzodiazepines were the most popular drug in the 1960s! They are highly addictive and far worse for you than the SSRIs and other modern antidepressants.
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Originally Posted by RamenAddict
Are you kidding? Benzodiazepines were the most popular drug in the 1960s! They are highly addictive and far worse for you than the SSRIs and other modern antidepressants.
Yeah, benzos, valium, mommy's little helpers (speed), men and three martini lunches. Plenty of depression, just it wasn't diagnosed or called such, and certainly wasn't talked about.
No exercise, gyms were rare. Sure, more walking in general.
Big thing is diet. Pre high fructose corn syrup and preservatives. Portions sizes smaller too.
Are you kidding? Benzodiazepines were the most popular drug in the 1960s! They are highly addictive and far worse for you than the SSRIs and other modern antidepressants.
I think about 40% of Americans on are on the anti depressant placebos. What we the percentage of long time drug use for Benzodiazepines? I bet this was a small percentage of hard core drug users...
Yeah, benzos, valium, mommy's little helpers (speed), men and three martini lunches. Plenty of depression, just it wasn't diagnosed or called such, and certainly wasn't talked about.
No exercise, gyms were rare. Sure, more walking in general.
Gyms are mainly used by upper middle class who have time and can afford them. Everybody was doing more walking before in the past...
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Originally Posted by timberline742
Big thing is diet. Pre high fructose corn syrup and preservatives. Portions sizes smaller too.
As well as the pre pesticides, herbicides, antibiotics that are now used to grow crops and farm animals. Also the percentage of obese people was a lot lower in the 60s than now. So I think middle class/upper middle class are doing somewhat better but working class is doing much worse as compared to the 1960s.
I think about 40% of Americans on are on the anti depressant placebos. What we the percentage of long time drug use for Benzodiazepines? I bet this was a small percentage of hard core drug users...
I think it is more like 1/6 (which is nowhere near 40%) who are prescribed psychotropic medications, but they are often prescribed these medicines for reasons other than depression. Tricyclics are used for migraines and neuropathy. SSRIs can be used to treat menopause symptoms.
Guys, i am new to this forum and i will tell you my story with all the things i have done wrong in detail. Please, if you read this, i know that i made mistakes. But i would like to find some constructive ways to avoid something like this in the future.
I am now 40 years old, and to be honest, this number is not my friend as i realize that many people with 40 somehow behave "older" than i would like. I prefer to go out for dancing, have some fun, do a lot of physical activity and i would like to live much more like a typical 25 year old and also date younger women. As i have no grey hair or wrinkles, most people estimate my age below 30 anyway.
And here comes the problem.
In the last years, although I was already over 30, I was on a certain dancing party 1-2 times a year. 50% there were teenagers < 20, about 30% between 20 and 25 and the rest was older, but only a few over 30. I still liked that place because some of the "older" women (we are actually talking about women 20-25) still wanted to dance with me and often liked me. (legal stuff: In my country 18+ is considered an adult, 16+ is legal for any relationship, 20-25 is therefore at least not a legal problem).
There were a few occasions where i lied about my age (i simply didnt want to be seen als "older" by anyone) but that was not related to any relationship or romance.
Last year - i was 39 - this happened: There was a student girl (she was 20 that time as she told me later). She was already studying at the university for two years now, she had her own students appartement, a students job, so i considered her as an attractive younger, but adult woman. However, whe also was rather inexperienced with men, initially very shy and even though we hardly knew each other she later told me that she was interested in me for two years or so(!). This time, she came to that place hoping to meet me (i hardly knew her!) and we decided to go out with each other.
So we met a few times, we fell in love, we spent some nights together, and she wanted to sleep with me after one month (but we didn’t, because of what followed, I didn’t even ask for that btw.). Till then it was very romantic, and she told me often how much she liked me, that I was so different than other boys and more considerate. My impression at that time was that i was a very nice boyfriend, i didnt push her to anything and adapted myself to her a lot. Also i didnt behave "old" in any way.
However, we didnt talk too much about our lifes actually, it started more like an affair. She was mostly interested in my body, in romantic stuff and she wanted to try out things she couldnt do before. We also didnt talk about "age" for one month. I appreciated that a lot because I never wanted to be judged by that number anyway so i was happy to avoid that topic and she didn’t seem to care.
Finally, after one month she asked me about my age, but I avoided the topic, saying “I don’t want to tell my age. What age would you guess?.” She said, “hmm, maybe 27?”. I only replied “Well, that’s a nice answer.” and was happy that i managed to stay and look so young. She seemed to be fine with me not wanting to tell the number ( That was just before her 21st birthday btw, so i was 39, she 20).
However, she wasn’t. The next day she googled my name and found out that I must be somewhat older. So she called me on my phone, told me in panic that she MUST know my age and I told her that I was 39. Now everything was messed up. She cried, told me “you could be my dad, we can’t be together” and so on.
I drove to her (she had her apartment, but that day she was with her parents in their house) and found her crying. During this last talk i had to admit a lot of things which didnt seem to matter before:
- that of course, i intentionally wanted to stay and look young and
- that i avoided telling my age.
Even thought i didnt directly lie to that girl and that she wasnt interested in that damn number for weeks, she then reacted as i had betrayed her badly. She was crying all the time, and then – after she cried out so loud, her parents came into her room, told me “you leave now” and threw me out of the house. That was the last thing I heard from her and the girl then completely stopped any contact with me.
This was the worst day of my life, followed by the worst weeks. I was so in love with that girl and now i felt so stupid. Also this was the most disturbing evidence that a woman who loved me could reject me ONLY because of that damn age. A woman who told me how happy she was for 4 weeks.
I wrote 2 emails, trying to apologize and explain, but she didnt even reply.
I saw here again by accident and from a distance a few months later. Again she panicked (i didn’t talk to her), avoided coming closer to me and seemed to use her friend as a shield. She reacted to me as if I had done something terrible to her. Her girlfriends who were with her reacted the same way.
I again asked her by email for just a final talk (that was 2 month later) about what has gone wrong that I wanted to apologize for making her any problems, but again, no reply.
This was now one year ago. I don’t feel love for her anymore, but I am still thinking about this almost every day. I want to stay attractive and young so much, but i fear such an outcome and i dont want to cause anyone problems.
During the last year, i had complexes because of my age which i couldnt change and i made mixed experienced. I have a trained body, so usually, when i go dancing anywhere there are always women of any age who want to dance very tight with me. But now i always wonder: Would they still like me if they know that i am now 40?
I tested it a few times, some women were saying "you can NEVER be together with a women 15+ years younger". At least also some said "its just a number" or even "judging someone by a number is just superficial". I also had an affair with a 21 year old woman who directly realized that i had problems with my age and told me that i wouldnt have to worry, because she doesnt care about it. Some of those experiences raised my self-confidence at least a little.
But the problem with age still feels so present to me. I fear to get older more than ever before, and mostly I fear that I could fall in love with a woman who then tells me that I am "too old".
I hate the fact that some people tend to judge others by that age number. I am also unsure whether i should always directly (a) confess my age, (b) avoid the topic if i can of (c) or even lie about it. On one hand it feels so wrong to be judged by that damn age by some people. On the other hand, i dont want to cause anyone such psychical problems and i cant start a relationship based on a lie.
Question is now, how should I deal with this? It is a year after those events now, but it still causes me problems. What are your thoughts on this?
Realism is key in the dating world. First of all, you got away with casual dating with younger women because you look young. This worked ok but once one got serious, the woman was shocked at your actual age and retreated. Rather than being bitter, it's best to look at it as a learning experience.
The dating world in your case seems to be a preference for young women (roughly 20s) when you are actually 40 going on up. Then it is key to decompose the population into realism.
(1) The majority of young women prefer men their age and would just be "Grossed out" at the mere thought of being with an older guy (5 years older or so - maybe more). This population is large. For example, a coed group of undergraduates in a college town on a road trip would likely exclude graduate students that are slightly or significantly older. Stay away from them.
(2) A smaller but not negligible subset exists such that the younger woman does not actively prefer older men but, given the circumstances, may be open to dating an older guy. This can occur somewhat sporadically but does happen. For example, I once had four college girls celebrating spring break (despite that it had been over for a week) try to jump into my truck when they were drunk. I just drove off.
(3) A much smaller group genuinely prefers much older guys and rejects men their own age. This group is very small and highly infrequent but does exist.
The mistake guys your age make is in trying to "act young". Just embrace being older, don't hide it. Then the women from (2) and (3) are more likely to be found. Hiding your age and going exlusively after (1) is not going to work.
Just know that age gaps give a higher probability of divorce. But dating a single mom closer to your age gives a high probability of divorce as well. It's a dilemma.
To me, as a middle-aged guy who never married, the ideal would be an older women with work experience but not at the point of having become a single mom (say, a 30 year old DNP). But they are rare and if exist usually get taken immediately. Meanwhile, the older available women are usually single moms. I can see why middle-aged, never-married guys may wind up going for younger women simply because the ideal unmarried older woman without children (e.g. 30 year old DNP) is statistically. Exceptions may be places like NY or DC. Places to avoid would be Denver, Silicon Valley, Alaska - etc. Relocation may be key in your case.
But to my mind, an older, never-married middle-aged guy who marries a younger woman in the first place should not be stigmatized like the older MARRIED man with children who leaves his wife for a much younger woman (like the nanny, an intern at work, etc). The infidelity is common.
Realism is key in the dating world. First of all, you got away with casual dating with younger women because you look young. This worked ok but once one got serious, the woman was shocked at your actual age and retreated. Rather than being bitter, it's best to look at it as a learning experience.
Hmm, when i think about it... she was first shocked when she found out the number ("this cant be, you could be my dad") but as i see it now it was my reaction what made it worse.
First thing i said was "but i thought you were so happy with me all the time" and here she said "yes", and cried.
But then...
I wanted to argue that i am doing things to stay young (like daily excercise, certain nutrition,...) and that i want to be and stay young anyway. I argued that i am basically more or less like a younger person and that there was no need to judge me by that number.
But i guess she on the other side understood that completely different. For her only the number counted and to her those effords were as if i had betrayed her by disguising as a younger person. Before that i found it more or less natural to try what i can to stay attractive/young. She was also upset because i didnt tell her that i have a phd.
Quote:
The dating world in your case seems to be a preference for young women (roughly 20s) when you are actually 40 going on up. Then it is key to decompose the population into realism.
Well, actually i dont really ask for the age and i dont even focus on that age group. The thing is... i am living in a students city, where the majority of the young population is female. Many nice activities (from dancing, sports, ...) are full of students and each year about 5000 new young women move to this city to study here. Many of those come without a boyfriend.
But it was never that i said "my girlfriend MUST be 20", but more the fact that girls you naturally meet on activities are often of students age, between 19 and 25 and also the fact that i like such activities. It would feel strange to exclude those women based on a number. Girlfriends which i had in the last 10 years were between 19 and 31 years old.
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The mistake guys your age make is in trying to "act young". Just embrace being older, don't hide it.
Well i avoided telling the age because i experienced a few times that people accept that. Last summer i had an affair with another student (age 21) and when i said "i dont want to tell my age, i have problems with that" she said "dont worry, its just a number". She also estimated me 10-15 years younger, but had no issue with the number when i told her later.
Ok, in the case of the girl last year when i said "i dont wanna tell it", when she estimated me 12 years younger and i said "oh, thats a nice answer" (not: "correct"), there was probably a slight misunderstanding. Maybe she thougth that i confirmed her guess by that, which was not my intention.
However, i did never "try to act young", i was always myself.
Quote:
To me, as a middle-aged guy who never married, the ideal would be an older women with work experience but not at the point of having become a single mom (say, a 30 year old DNP). But they are rare and if exist usually get taken immediately. Meanwhile, the older available women are usually single moms. I can see why middle-aged, never-married guys may wind up going for younger women simply because the ideal unmarried older woman without children (e.g. 30 year old DNP) is statistically. Exceptions may be places like NY or DC. Places to avoid would be Denver, Silicon Valley, Alaska - etc. Relocation may be key in your case.
Well, thats what i also experienced. Women 30+ are very rare if they should be
- good looking and still full of energy
- single
- with no kids and
- no previous marriage and
- interested in you.
Thats not too easy and i would not even have a good plan here. By now my only strategy was to go dancing until a girl gets interested.
Well, thats what i also experienced. Women 30+ are very rare if they should be
- good looking and still full of energy
- single
- with no kids and
- no previous marriage and
- interested in you.
Thats not too easy and i would not even have a good plan here. By now my only strategy was to go dancing until a girl gets interested.
Seriously? The only "not too easy" part about this is the last item on the list. Great-looking, energetic, child-free, divorce-free women are very common where I'm from. I wonder where the OP lives. Maybe he needs to relocate. He writes as if 30 or 32 is over the hill. Ridiculous!
OP I think you need therapy because you obviously think life stops at 40. The problem is lying to her. You need to be honest about your age in future.
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