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Old 07-17-2019, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Middle America
36,701 posts, read 41,991,338 times
Reputation: 50635

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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Very likely. I don't have game. And it's my understanding that if flirting's not a two-way street, it's creepy coming from a man.
All one-sided flirtation is awkward.

 
Old 07-17-2019, 03:48 PM
 
3,825 posts, read 1,766,770 times
Reputation: 7533
I don't disagree. I respond in these types of threads, though, because I think people push back against a person's claim that all of their difficulty dating is due to their looks, and in pushing back they tend to invalidate the experiences of people like me. My appearance very much limited my social life when I was young, and later on too for that matter, but the stakes weren't as high once I was an adult. I tend to believe that the people who complain here that their looks are a challenge are being pretty honest. Sometimes this forum does a sort of a just world thing on people who are frustrated, though. I'm aware that many men and women with little or no dating or relationship success let their struggles get the best of them and they may put too much focus one a single aspect of their challenge, and sure, those people often get an outcome commensurate with their weak input.

But I can easily imagine that it wasn't always that way. In any other activity, like job hunting or weight loss or learning a language or to play a musical instrument, we can look at a person who isn't having success and attribute their lack of success to the genuine difficulty of what they're trying to do. We don't blame their history of not succeeding on their current attitude, one that is the result of their struggle, and not the cause. And their fear that losing the sour attitude just puts them back where they were a few years ago when they started down this challenging and unfulfilling path is kind or rational. It feels like resistance, but it's got a basis in their lived reality. Working through that is necessary if they're to keep trying and ultimately have some success, but by blaming their attitude, we may be erasing the reality of their past experience.



I've been you in that situation, and it sucks. You've brought this up in possibly every thread you've participated in, though. This, or things like this, happen. You need to find a way to witness other men's apparent or real ease with attracting women, and not make that a comment about you having no hope. It means something, but maybe it just means that it's easy for him to attract women. Period. Most men don't have that kind of appeal, and while they may feel a twinge of envy witnessing someone who does, they deal with those feelings and make connections with women on their terms. Men just like you. Every day.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post


Seems like the comment in red, as advice to the OP, contradicts all that other stuff you said up top.
Does it? I'm saying that it's better to be unattractive with a decent outlook on life than it is to be unattractive and bitter. Being bitter is no fun, so my advise was to find ways to better cope with one of the poor mental habits that seems to contribute to the OP feeling bitter or down about his life and himself.

My point above is that the causal relationship is often bad experiences>>>>>>>bitterness. I guess some people are born with poor attitudes, but most people develop them over time, as part of a process. Anyone should avoid that process if they can, or reverse it if it transpires, but It makes no sense to reach back and blame the process of on the result of the process.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 05:01 PM
 
8,083 posts, read 6,020,979 times
Reputation: 5727
Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
I don't disagree. I respond in these types of threads, though, because I think people push back against a person's claim that all of their difficulty dating is due to their looks, and in pushing back they tend to invalidate the experiences of people like me. My appearance very much limited my social life when I was young, and later on too for that matter, but the stakes weren't as high once I was an adult. I tend to believe that the people who complain here that their looks are a challenge are being pretty honest. Sometimes this forum does a sort of a just world thing on people who are frustrated, though. I'm aware that many men and women with little or no dating or relationship success let their struggles get the best of them and they may put too much focus one a single aspect of their challenge, and sure, those people often get an outcome commensurate with their weak input.

But I can easily imagine that it wasn't always that way. In any other activity, like job hunting or weight loss or learning a language or to play a musical instrument, we can look at a person who isn't having success and attribute their lack of success to the genuine difficulty of what they're trying to do. We don't blame their history of not succeeding on their current attitude, one that is the result of their struggle, and not the cause. And their fear that losing the sour attitude just puts them back where they were a few years ago when they started down this challenging and unfulfilling path is kind or rational. It feels like resistance, but it's got a basis in their lived reality. Working through that is necessary if they're to keep trying and ultimately have some success, but by blaming their attitude, we may be erasing the reality of their past experience.



I've been you in that situation, and it sucks. You've brought this up in possibly every thread you've participated in, though. This, or things like this, happen. You need to find a way to witness other men's apparent or real ease with attracting women, and not make that a comment about you having no hope. It means something, but maybe it just means that it's easy for him to attract women. Period. Most men don't have that kind of appeal, and while they may feel a twinge of envy witnessing someone who does, they deal with those feelings and make connections with women on their terms. Men just like you. Every day.





Does it? I'm saying that it's better to be unattractive with a decent outlook on life than it is to be unattractive and bitter. Being bitter is no fun, so my advise was to find ways to better cope with one of the poor mental habits that seems to contribute to the OP feeling bitter or down about his life and himself.

My point above is that the causal relationship is often bad experiences>>>>>>>bitterness. I guess some people are born with poor attitudes, but most people develop them over time, as part of a process. Anyone should avoid that process if they can, or reverse it if it transpires, but It makes no sense to reach back and blame the process of on the result of the process.
I see what you are saying. While the attitude can perpetuate the process in a vicious cycle, the attitude is caused by the process.

In the case of relationships, a certain person is told that they are undesirable, they go through a process that develops an undesirable trait that then becomes a large factor in their experience. The "undesirable" person either attracts more situations that prove to them they are undesirable, or they just focus in on them and not notice or appreciate the circumstances that provide evidence that he is desirable (speaking from my experience.

There is a possibility of breaking that process. I've done it myself. I used to be the one who blamed my looks on my lack of success with women. But even now, I don't have much problems.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 08:27 PM
 
Location: La lune et les ťtoiles
17,619 posts, read 19,061,699 times
Reputation: 18963
I'm not understanding why the guys in the Dateless Wonders Club are making things harder than it needs to be. Its truly not that hard.

If you are fat....lose weight
If you are shy...work on building your confidence overall
If you are lazy...change that bad habit
If you are a loner...try getting out of your room/apartment/grandma's basement
If you are a slovenly pig....practice better hygiene and grooming habits
If you are poor...get a better job/start a business and make more money
If you are ugly....go make a LOT of money
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
43,433 posts, read 41,976,963 times
Reputation: 83438
Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post

Does it?
Yes.

In the first part you chastise the forum in general for supposedly minimizing JBT's struggles and blaming them on resultant attitude, cautioning him not to focus too much on one single factor, then right after that coach JBT to simply accept that others succeed because .. they do, which effectively minimizes his conflict.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post

I'm saying that it's better to be unattractive with a decent outlook on life than it is to be unattractive and bitter.
Did not get that from this at all.
 
Old 07-17-2019, 10:06 PM
 
8,083 posts, read 6,020,979 times
Reputation: 5727
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
I'm not understanding why the guys in the Dateless Wonders Club are making things harder than it needs to be. Its truly not that hard.

If you are fat....lose weight
If you are shy...work on building your confidence overall
If you are lazy...change that bad habit
If you are a loner...try getting out of your room/apartment/grandma's basement
If you are a slovenly pig....practice better hygiene and grooming habits
If you are poor...get a better job/start a business and make more money
If you are ugly....go make a LOT of money
I wish more people would tell me that because that is the mindset I have.

Instead, I get more "If you are poor, don't work, you're a victim, let daddy gubbie carry you."

No thank you, I'd rather earn my money. If my success diminishes you, so sad.

For those who are able, if there is a problem, find a solution.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 05:15 AM
Status: "Beach time!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg/Virginia Beach, VA
10,701 posts, read 11,108,112 times
Reputation: 14090
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
I'm not understanding why the guys in the Dateless Wonders Club are making things harder than it needs to be. Its truly not that hard.

If you are fat....lose weight
If you are shy...work on building your confidence overall
If you are lazy...change that bad habit
If you are a loner...try getting out of your room/apartment/grandma's basement
If you are a slovenly pig....practice better hygiene and grooming habits
If you are poor...get a better job/start a business and make more money
If you are ugly....go make a LOT of money
I think these guys understand this, the problem for them is they donít know how to do any of the above. I mean if starting a business and making more money were so easy everyone would do it.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 07:52 AM
 
3,825 posts, read 1,766,770 times
Reputation: 7533
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
I'm not understanding why the guys in the Dateless Wonders Club are making things harder than it needs to be. Its truly not that hard.

If you are fat....lose weight
If you are shy...work on building your confidence overall
If you are lazy...change that bad habit
If you are a loner...try getting out of your room/apartment/grandma's basement
If you are a slovenly pig....practice better hygiene and grooming habits
If you are poor...get a better job/start a business and make more money
If you are ugly....go make a LOT of money
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I think these guys understand this, the problem for them is they donít know how to do any of the above. I mean if starting a business and making more money were so easy everyone would do it.
I suppose being a "slovenly pig" (do I detect some contempt?) is readily correctable and probably related to being lazy. If any of the other things listed were easy though, people would just do those things. Whoops, I hadn't noticed that calipoppy had declared that those tasks are "not that hard". I stand corrected.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Middle America
36,701 posts, read 41,991,338 times
Reputation: 50635
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I think these guys understand this, the problem for them is they don’t know how to do any of the above. I mean if starting a business and making more money were so easy everyone would do it.
Also, all of the above take work/effort. Which, once you've already allowed yourself to become beaten down, lonely, embittered, etc., feels even more insurmountable.

On paper, as with most things related to self-care and wellbeing, the steps look simple. In practice, they're not, particularly for the emotionally unhealthy among us. They all take behavioral change, and behavioral change is a hard, slow, process fraught with numerous steps back for every step forward. People with strong emotional reserves have a difficult time changing behavior. People who are already struggling and don't have those reserves? Tall order. Any one of them alone is a huge project to undertake.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 08:55 AM
 
4,272 posts, read 4,704,262 times
Reputation: 2898
I’ve talked about it before but when I have the money I really think a nose job would make me more attractive.

My nose is awful and is probably hurting me attract woman.
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