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Old 07-12-2019, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,073 posts, read 4,211,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
I don't agree. Life just isn't that simple.


“If they like you, you’ll know."

Sometimes, but it's very possible you misread the other person.


"If they don’t like you, you’ll be confused.”

Not necessarily. It's very possible to be confused when the person actually does like you.
I agree with this. Way too many variables to consider. Nothing is just one way or the other. People are much more complex for that simple of an answer.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:14 PM
 
713 posts, read 184,399 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
I don't picture you as a women needing practice flirting, Sonic. Maybe because I can relate to people who are more direct and don't want to send mixed messages. I don't flirt with strangers. I should have used "I" instead of women. That's why the issue with the word, practice.

OLD is the right venue for me. It's already agreed we're both interested in each other, and it's supposed to be for a romantic connection. So I get to say what I mean, compliment without hesitation, touchy-feely, if it's there. I just disagreed with the idea of women practice flirting. For what? The big event when we have to get it down right, like a professional?

Maybe some do flirt and get offended if it's acted upon, like a tease or attention seeker.
To derail my own thread, I’d be interested in your take on what happened, since it’s confused the hell out of me for years, and came to my mind immediately when I read the axiom in the OP. It was the only overt display of affection I’ve gotten, and in trying to understand it I’ve just chalked it up to her being young and discovering her allure.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:15 PM
 
8,073 posts, read 6,016,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty2011 View Post
I think he might be misunderstanding smell good, i.e. showered and wearing cologne, versus the scent of pheromones which are involved in attraction.
Cologne is a great option. I like the "fresh out of the shower" smell.

And...pheromones... I wouldn't know that much. I never really needed "pheromones". But as long as it works.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:17 PM
 
8,073 posts, read 6,016,742 times
Reputation: 5714
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
To derail my own thread, I’d be interested in your take on what happened, since it’s confused the hell out of me for years, and came to my mind immediately when I read the axiom in the OP. It was the only overt display of affection I’ve gotten, and in trying to understand it I’ve just chalked it up to her being young and discovering her allure.
If I remember correctly, this was in high school? Probably not even worth thinking about because we are rarely the same person we were in high school. She could've been discovering her allure, but y'all were just kids. I don't know how old you are now, but by the time I turned 20, high school seemed like a distant memory to me. I myself did not get any attention from girls in high school.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Colorado
11,916 posts, read 7,336,954 times
Reputation: 21391
Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
I don't picture you as a women needing practice flirting, Sonic. Maybe because I can relate to people who are more direct and don't want to send mixed messages. I don't flirt with strangers. I should have used "I" instead of women. That's why the issue with the word, practice.

OLD is the right venue for me. It's already agreed we're both interested in each other, and it's supposed to be for a romantic connection. So I get to say what I mean, compliment without hesitation, touchy-feely, if it's there. I just disagreed with the idea of women practice flirting. For what? The big event when we have to get it down right, like a professional?

Maybe some do flirt and get offended if it's acted upon, like a tease or attention seeker.
I don't think that there is anything truly wrong or scornworthy about teasing or attention seeking, especially when one is young. Attention feels good. It's a form of validation. And I think that those who act like they are so very above getting a ping of positive feeling from it, are being disingenuous. Is there a place where people take it too far and it's over the top and therefore tiresome? Absolutely, yes!!

But this is where my thought comes in on "practicing." Like how young pups and kittens play to learn predator skills that they may need as adult creatures, right? Practice. Humans are complex social animals. It's our biggest strength along with our intelligent brains. So growing up, courting, mating, flirting, how to interact with the gender we're attracted to, that is very social behavior. As is how to find safe and appropriate ways to act in bigger social groups. How boundaries operate, and how far they can or cannot, should or should not be pushed. All stuff that teenagers are "practicing"...to learn how it works. We're not born knowing all of this.

In my opinion one of the more tricky things about being a very sociable woman, is a conflicting feeling towards a male. When I like him, appreciate his personality, find him pleasing to be around, and wish to express to him that hey...you are a human that I appreciate. As a good-hearted person, I want to validate and affirm other human beings that I have a positive feeling towards.

But.

Does that mean I wish to wrap myself up with a bow on top and give him my life? Mate with him, have his kids? Even date him to "see where that goes"...? Well. Maybe not. Maybe I find him appealing yet too familial somehow (brother-like) or I'm just not ready for a relationship and I get a sense he would get VERY attached if I let him. Maybe I want to say uplifting or affectionate things...yet keep him at a safe...arm's...length... ?

And the thing that I don't want to have to do, is to reach a crossroads where the only possible action is to break his heart.

So yeah, in fact, it took a lot of PRACTICE in social behavior, including flirting and what could be perceived as flirting but didn't really have that intent (since some eager souls see a flirt in everything) and that was part of growing up, learning how to human. And so this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
To derail my own thread, I’d be interested in your take on what happened, since it’s confused the hell out of me for years, and came to my mind immediately when I read the axiom in the OP. It was the only overt display of affection I’ve gotten, and in trying to understand it I’ve just chalked it up to her being young and discovering her allure.
...is entirely possible.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:36 AM
 
7,460 posts, read 2,949,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
To derail my own thread, I’d be interested in your take on what happened, since it’s confused the hell out of me for years, and came to my mind immediately when I read the axiom in the OP. It was the only overt display of affection I’ve gotten, and in trying to understand it I’ve just chalked it up to her being young and discovering her allure.
Ok, but I can only tell you why I did that a couple of (or more) times in high school. I really did like the guy, but I was so insecure with low self esteem that I became frozen in fear when he acted on my interest and asked me out.

My go to safe answer was “no, sorry, I’m not allowed to date.” Or just “no thanks.” (I probably couldn’t even bring myself to say the word date!) I certainly didn’t think highly enough of myself to “practice flirting”. Then I would be kicking myself for days wondering why I couldn’t just be like the other girls, excited to go out on a date. No, the spotlight terrified me. I always had the voice in my head saying:”who do you think you are? A date? With a boy? No, must be a joke.” A family member molded me into that person.

I wished the guy would ask again, so the “NO!” wouldn’t come hurling out of my mouth projectile-reaction style, but it didn’t happen. They lost their confidence too, got their feelings hurt, and tell themselves the things some of the guys do here: You lost your chance, didn’t like me then, dead to me now.

Maybe that’s why after decades of becoming ok with myself, I just do the asking! I don’t need practice.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:40 PM
 
713 posts, read 184,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Does that mean I wish to wrap myself up with a bow on top and give him my life? Mate with him, have his kids? Even date him to "see where that goes"...? Well. Maybe not. Maybe I find him appealing yet too familial somehow (brother-like) or I'm just not ready for a relationship and I get a sense he would get VERY attached if I let him. Maybe I want to say uplifting or affectionate things...yet keep him at a safe...arm's...length... ?

And the thing that I don't want to have to do, is to reach a crossroads where the only possible action is to break his heart.

So yeah, in fact, it took a lot of PRACTICE in social behavior, including flirting and what could be perceived as flirting but didn't really have that intent (since some eager souls see a flirt in everything) and that was part of growing up, learning how to human.

I strongly identify with the bolded clauses. The former is probably one of my main problems...I think women can smell the potential for clinginess in me. Sometimes my desire for physical affection is very much like a hunger pain in the pit of my stomach. It can be so intense that it's like a physical pain, and sometimes it reduces me to tears. I've been known to cry during romantic scenes in movies and TV shows...let's just say I don't need to ever see A Star Is Born again. My "physical touch" love language blows the other four out of the water. I think women can sense this and its propensity to making me clingy and needy, and I know that's not a good look to women.


The second bolded part fits, too. Many times in the past my wishful thinking has led me to thinking there was something that wasn't, leaving me confused when I've been shot down. The story from high school, however, stands as the most perplexing. I think if I was here, as a 16 year old kid, asking everyone's opinion on whether I should ask her out or not based on how she acted towards me, I doubt anyone would have advised against it. Every other encounter that I've had, sure..."polite and friendly"...but that first one is unique in the level of affection she showed me. (Its uniqueness alone should be enough to make me think twice when I think there might be someone interested, though.)
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:48 PM
 
713 posts, read 184,399 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
Ok, but I can only tell you why I did that a couple of (or more) times in high school. I really did like the guy, but I was so insecure with low self esteem that I became frozen in fear when he acted on my interest and asked me out.

My go to safe answer was “no, sorry, I’m not allowed to date.” Or just “no thanks.” (I probably couldn’t even bring myself to say the word date!) I certainly didn’t think highly enough of myself to “practice flirting”. Then I would be kicking myself for days wondering why I couldn’t just be like the other girls, excited to go out on a date. No, the spotlight terrified me. I always had the voice in my head saying:”who do you think you are? A date? With a boy? No, must be a joke.” A family member molded me into that person.

I wished the guy would ask again, so the “NO!” wouldn’t come hurling out of my mouth projectile-reaction style, but it didn’t happen. They lost their confidence too, got their feelings hurt, and tell themselves the things some of the guys do here: You lost your chance, didn’t like me then, dead to me now.

Maybe that’s why after decades of becoming ok with myself, I just do the asking! I don’t need practice.

Man, that's tragic, for both you and the guys who approached you. I strongly identify with "Why can't I just be like the others," except in this case the others were romantically successful guys and I...wasn't.


Re: "Ask again"...In their defense, though, for a guy, to ask more than once is to open himself up to trouble, particularly these days.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:21 AM
 
8,073 posts, read 6,016,742 times
Reputation: 5714
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
I strongly identify with the bolded clauses. The former is probably one of my main problems...I think women can smell the potential for clinginess in me. Sometimes my desire for physical affection is very much like a hunger pain in the pit of my stomach. It can be so intense that it's like a physical pain, and sometimes it reduces me to tears. I've been known to cry during romantic scenes in movies and TV shows...let's just say I don't need to ever see A Star Is Born again. My "physical touch" love language blows the other four out of the water. I think women can sense this and its propensity to making me clingy and needy, and I know that's not a good look to women.


The second bolded part fits, too. Many times in the past my wishful thinking has led me to thinking there was something that wasn't, leaving me confused when I've been shot down. The story from high school, however, stands as the most perplexing. I think if I was here, as a 16 year old kid, asking everyone's opinion on whether I should ask her out or not based on how she acted towards me, I doubt anyone would have advised against it. Every other encounter that I've had, sure..."polite and friendly"...but that first one is unique in the level of affection she showed me. (Its uniqueness alone should be enough to make me think twice when I think there might be someone interested, though.)
I can identify. I have seen something there that wasn't, but fortunately, it never turned into a big mess for me. I think a lot of guys go through that kind of confusion. Even some of the more affectionate and "smitten" types of interactions can be misinterpreted by me.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:13 PM
 
7 posts, read 863 times
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From my point of view, it's usually pretty clear when someone does or doesn't like me romantically but wishful thinking often gets in the way. The trick is try be ok with either outcome and that's where self-confidence and understanding your own worth comes into play - easier said than done but that's what we're all aiming for in life, some are just faster than others
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