U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Today, 09:39 AM
 
7,464 posts, read 2,949,200 times
Reputation: 12390

Advertisements

I had to rep you james112. Even if I don’t have the attention span and interest to read really long posts, I get the impression you really are trying to give some common-sense-style good advice. So much more useful than the “Femalez is Bad Newz” crap responses littering the forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Today, 11:02 AM
 
8,083 posts, read 6,016,742 times
Reputation: 5727
Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
Like I said, guys get romantic right off, but woman need time (at leas some VERY good dates). You can't know what she is feeling so guys need to assume she is just being friendly. However, a women flirting, talking, laughing has more than 50% interest, but in her mind she is not making a romantic advance, and doesn't have romantic feelings yet. Unless a woman makes a romantic advance, assume she's just being friendly. You can't read her mind or feelings.

I found this helpful. All women you meet with either be type 1, 2, or 3. As you engage with women, just note which type they are:

1. low interest - they don't care to be around you. They may be beautiful but forget them. A waste of time. This will be most women.

2. 50-70% interest - these have 50% interest or more with you. These will flirt, laugh and talk with you but not always. You get a mixed message. You're confused. Because their interest is above 50% you can pursue them, but plan on spending time and effort to raise their interest in you.

3. 71-90% interest - these women are rare but easy to know. They come sit next to you, flirt, touch you, etc. They go out of their way to be near you. Nature does the initial attraction.

4. 100% interest - this woman is in love with you. She has found her man for life. This is a woman that was type 3 to start, as nature attracted her to you, and you courted her successfully.
I often run into the three types at the same time. I used to set my sites on type 1 or 2, only to get snatched up by type 3 who I happen to be more attracted to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 11:35 AM
 
7,412 posts, read 11,572,817 times
Reputation: 8208
Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
The good news is dating skills and steps are simple to learn and do, but not easy to execute in practice, because we fall into old patterns. These are the steps which are easy by themselves:

1. put your life goals and purpose first
2. decide what type of relationship/woman you want (that fits in with #1)

3. communicate #2 when meeting woman, and only continue with those who want the same
4. avoid low interest type 1's, only pursue type 2's and 3's

5. never chase and appear needy (no text bombs)
6. only use text/phone calls for making meetups (dates)

7. on meetups just hangout and have fun, never anything serious
8. avoid friendship-only zone by moving romance forward, at her pace

9. do not talk her into being in a relationship, just let the relationship happen


These are the steps which are easy by themselves but difficult to execute
Silly games...

If a woman wants to throw away a potential lifelong match and cross you off the 'list' for life, because you didn't 'play the game' right, it's her choice, but not too smart IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 12:25 PM
 
8,083 posts, read 6,016,742 times
Reputation: 5727
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Silly games...

If a woman wants to throw away a potential lifelong match and cross you off the 'list' for life, because you didn't 'play the game' right, it's her choice, but not too smart IMO.
I don't know if I'd necessarily call it a game. I see it as more proceeding with caution. But yeah, I'm not up for 'games' at this point in my life either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 02:39 PM
 
20,633 posts, read 16,673,422 times
Reputation: 38797
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Silly games...

If a woman wants to throw away a potential lifelong match and cross you off the 'list' for life, because you didn't 'play the game' right, it's her choice, but not too smart IMO.
None of what he stated above is game playing. It's simply good life advice for both men and women.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 05:59 PM
 
717 posts, read 184,399 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
I found this helpful. All women you meet with either be type 1, 2, or 3. As you engage with women, just note which type they are:

1. low interest - they don't care to be around you. They may be beautiful but forget them. A waste of time. This will be most women.

2. 50-70% interest - these have 50% interest or more with you. These will flirt, laugh and talk with you but not always. You get a mixed message. You're confused. Because their interest is above 50% you can pursue them, but plan on spending time and effort to raise their interest in you.

3. 71-90% interest - these women are rare but easy to know. They come sit next to you, flirt, touch you, etc. They go out of their way to be near you. Nature does the initial attraction.

4. 100% interest - this woman is in love with you. She has found her man for life. This is a woman that was type 3 to start, as nature attracted her to you, and you courted her successfully.

Your first and second types are what I experience. Only one of the third type, and she turned me down.


Which brings me to...


Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
Go on dates. Just hang out, have fun...

That's right. You are on a date or not. One or the other...

Most type 2 (50-70% interest) woman will accept to go on a date with you. Nature has already attracted her enough to go out with you...


Except, not. This is where my situation differs from what you're describing. When I've asked women who (apparently, to me?) fall into your second type they've said no. (To be precise, two said yes, but one flaked out at the last minute...so close to the time of the date that she might as well have stood me up...and the other went on a romantically disinterested first date with me and then ghosted.) And this is where the "confused" part of "if she doesn't like you, you'll be confused" comes in. Because what you describe as your type 2..."They will flirt, laugh, and talk with you"...describes what I've experienced, but not the "Most type 2 women will accept to go on a date with you."



In my experience, after two dozen or so rejections, I've accepted the opposite..."Most type 2 women will NOT go on a date with you"...to the point that I'm not willing to accept anything less than your type 3..."They sit next to you, flirt, touch you, go out of their way to be near you, etc."...as a sign that she'd accept an invitation for a date with romantic intent. And again, I've only experienced what you're describing in type 3 once in my life and she said NO...so I'm wary about hypothetically seeing even this type of behavior as evidence that she would want me to ask her out. (Or as evidence that she would say yes, anyways, as I'm not sure that some people don't get a kick out of just being asked out...I can see where they would get an ego boost out of it, to the point that they could be psychologically disposed to acting inviting even if they have no intention of actually going out with the guy...sort of a form of validation-seeking).



And that's why I have a hard time seeing how I'm supposed to interact with a woman with the intent of building her romantic interest if she won't go on a date with me...in my experience, it's either be friends with her ("patty-cake", as my ladies' man friend describes it, when telling me how I turn women off) or...nothing. No dates in the cards for me. And in my extensive experience, the friendzone leads to nothing but misery for me...I will not go back there if I'm wanting a romantic relationship with a woman. I refuse. There has only been one exception among the women I've asked out, and I was willing to quell romantic feelings for her because I liked hanging out with her in a group of mutual friends. For the rest, it's either dating or goodbye...no friendship. And if that makes me a misogynistic sexist pig, so be it. It also means I lack a context for this sort of thing...



Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
To move things forward romantically you can take small steps. You might make a romantic comment and see how she responds. Remember you are doing this with only a high interest woman to start, type 2, who displays some interest signs in you. You don't know if she has romantic feelings or not. Doesn't matter. A romantic move forward might be a sincere comment like "wow I'm sorry to interrupt but your eyes are just beautiful, I got distracted". Or something like that. Then note her reaction. This would be a romantic advance that you sincerely feel. Honest feelings from you, not fake come-on. You are taking a risk but it's true how you feel about her eyes. Her response might be "well thankyou very much" (good) but if she says nothing with a blank face that's not good and you then know she's doesn't want romance. Always advance romance at her pace.

To me romantic advances outside of the context of a dating relationship would be creepy? I read complaints from women about this all the time, including here..."I was just being nice and friendly, and then the creep started hitting on me." It's one thing to compliment a woman..."Hey, I've read that book series, what do you think of Character X?"...and another thing to hit on her..."I'm sorry, what did you say about Character X? I was distracted by how beautiful your eyes are." Does that sort of thing not turn women off? Like you said, it would be all-or-nothing, with "all" being a date and "nothing" being sexual harassment. I just don't see politeness and friendliness as license to hit on her, but that's largely because polite and friendly has never gotten me anything but shot down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
1. put your life goals and purpose first
2. decide what type of relationship/woman you want (that fits in with #1)

3. communicate #2 when meeting woman, and only continue with those who want the same
4. avoid low interest type 1's, only pursue type 2's and 3's

5. never chase and appear needy (no text bombs)
6. only use text/phone calls for making meetups (dates)

7. on meetups just hangout and have fun, never anything serious
8. avoid friendship-only zone by moving romance forward, at her pace

9. do not talk her into being in a relationship, just let the relationship happen

I like your rules. I just feel that...only the first one applies to me, because...dating is never going to be something that I can work hard enough or want badly enough to succeed at. It's always going to take a willing partner whose desire is completely out of my ability to control...from what you're saying, she has to at least be willing to go on a date with me before I can stoke any fire that might be kindling, and I simply am not the kind of guy women are looking to date.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 06:45 PM
 
717 posts, read 184,399 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idkeither View Post
I mean I'm not sure I want to move forward in a relationship with him. I don't have my mind made up to say no to anything he asks, I hope we do go on another date, I don't know if I would say yes to sex because I don't want to start having strong feelings for him. I haven't gotten to know him well enough yet. Same for relationship- I don't know how involved I want to become. I really am starting to like him a lot though.

I don't know if there is a sweet spot for timing when to ask for a date with a girl, etc. I feel there's a lot of truth to your comment about waiting too long and losing the chance. If you like her, ask her. I personally don't like waiting around. (That sounded bitchy, but it's true. The guy even apologised to me for taking so long.) I did not wait around, I went online to look for another date but did not actually follow through and go out with anyone.

Yes, it can be confusing for men. If a guy asks me out when I'm just not ready...I'm not going to go on a date. I may spend time with him platonically and might even flirt though. (Not usually flirt so much.) Now the guy in this example, I'd jump at the chance to date him. We live far apart (2000 miles) so that's not happening too soon.

Timing is everything and it's not always easy to tell. I'd suggest talk to a person about what's going on in their life. More important, listen. If they just got out of a bad situation romantically, they will likely need time- guy or girl if they truly had feelings for the other person.

My point is, a no can become a yes in time. Talk a little to see where the girl is at in her life before you initially ask. But if you don't ask (unless she asks you), the answer is always no. . .

Re: "Hope you go on another date," Okay, then the current situation you're describing is different from what I'd envisioned. I'd envisioned you and him knowing each other, you know he's interested, you've acted interested, but you're indecisive to the point that you'd turn down a date. What you're describing here is exactly the kind of thing I'd think would be the point of a series of dates. But then...


Re: "If I'm not ready, I'm not going to go on a date, even if I'm flirting with him"...THAT is exactly what I'm afraid of. "I might like you, but I'm not sure, but I'm going to flirt with you, but I'm going to say 'No' if you ask me out." That seems to perfectly describe nearly every situation in which I've asked a girl out, except for the first time I asked a girl out. And, that first time, the girl was even MORE flirtatious, because she was showering me with physical affection and attention and private conversation...and then shot me down. It's to the point that I doubt I even know what real interest from a woman looks like...I've come to completely discount politeness, friendliness, engaged conversation, joke sharing, witty banter, etc., from women as signs of interest, because they have never gotten me anywhere with women.


Re: "A No can become a Yes"...No, no, no, no. Sorry, that game is too dangerous to play for me.
1- If she says No, that puts me in the position of interacting with her just as a friend "until" she changes her mind. I.e., The Friendzone. Not going to do that.
2- To not be able to take No for an answer is skating towards sexual harassment.


If the answer is No, the answer is No. Period and forever, amen. I might be willing to be friends, but if I am I'm killing any desire to date her. More likely that would be the end of any close regular interactions. And if that makes me a jerky misogynistic sexist, so be it. Better than a creep who harasses women by asking them out repeatedly despite rejections.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:02 PM
 
717 posts, read 184,399 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
Forgive me if I'm wrong but do I remember correctly that you are on the spectrum?

If so, maybe dating another person with same issues would be beneficial.

I have a hunch I have some characteristics that are Spectrum-ish that are amplified in writing, particularly where I'm spilling my mind under the liberty of anonymity. I find social situations difficult to navigate, particularly with large numbers of people. Social skills don't come naturally to me...what skills I have are learned through hard work, practice, and study. I don't have natural social intuition; for instance, I didn't know it was bad form to ask people to dance at a wedding...either bring a +1 or stay on the wall, flower. I'm a classic introvert. My learned social state is one of shyness due to bullying and ostracization during my early social development, leading me to be very quiet in conversations I don't feel like I have the expertise to participate in.



All of that made trying to date much, much, much harder than it probably is for the average person, because 1- Social skills are hard enough for me to develop under normal circumstances, and 2- Dating situations in particular are rare for me. As a result I have far less dating experience, skill, and instinct than a man of my age should have...most high schoolers (and probably a good many junior high schoolers) have way more experience and ability than me.


But, I've managed to fake and mirror my way to mostly normal social interactions with people in most contexts. I don't feel comfortable or natural, but I can make my way through a party or a meeting or a chance encounter with an acquaintance without acting like Milton from Office Space. I've had two therapists be surprised when I've asked them if I should get screened for autism, and several other close friends be surprised as well.


So, there you have it. If there's a "dating autism spectrum", I'm probably on it, as that's probably the only social situation that I (still) come across like Milton from Office Space.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:59 PM
 
263 posts, read 89,434 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Re: "Hope you go on another date," Okay, then the current situation you're describing is different from what I'd envisioned. I'd envisioned you and him knowing each other, you know he's interested, you've acted interested, but you're indecisive to the point that you'd turn down a date. What you're describing here is exactly the kind of thing I'd think would be the point of a series of dates. But then...


Re: "If I'm not ready, I'm not going to go on a date, even if I'm flirting with him"...THAT is exactly what I'm afraid of. "I might like you, but I'm not sure, but I'm going to flirt with you, but I'm going to say 'No' if you ask me out." That seems to perfectly describe nearly every situation in which I've asked a girl out, except for the first time I asked a girl out. And, that first time, the girl was even MORE flirtatious, because she was showering me with physical affection and attention and private conversation...and then shot me down. It's to the point that I doubt I even know what real interest from a woman looks like...I've come to completely discount politeness, friendliness, engaged conversation, joke sharing, witty banter, etc., from women as signs of interest, because they have never gotten me anywhere with women.


Re: "A No can become a Yes"...No, no, no, no. Sorry, that game is too dangerous to play for me.
1- If she says No, that puts me in the position of interacting with her just as a friend "until" she changes her mind. I.e., The Friendzone. Not going to do that.
2- To not be able to take No for an answer is skating towards sexual harassment.


If the answer is No, the answer is No. Period and forever, amen. I might be willing to be friends, but if I am I'm killing any desire to date her. More likely that would be the end of any close regular interactions. And if that makes me a jerky misogynistic sexist, so be it. Better than a creep who harasses women by asking them out repeatedly despite rejections.
Agreed, in today's world it is best to ask once. You can let her ask next time if she turned you down the first time.

That's where I'm saying timing is everything. I missed out on a great guy because he seemingly didn't listen that I wasn't ready (less than a month out of a broken engagement- maybe I appeared happy but common sense, I wasn't ready.) Timing is everything.

If you come across someone just out of relationship, you could ask, "so do you feel you're ready to date or are you taking a break?" That way you can get her perspective on her readiness. While I realize that is not your original question, a question like that to a girl could help to get the timing correct.

The way women are so agressive these days, you'll do fine with your strategy.

Best of luck to you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:36 PM
 
717 posts, read 184,399 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idkeither View Post
Agreed, in today's world it is best to ask once. You can let her ask next time if she turned you down the first time.

That's where I'm saying timing is everything. I missed out on a great guy because he seemingly didn't listen that I wasn't ready (less than a month out of a broken engagement- maybe I appeared happy but common sense, I wasn't ready.) Timing is everything.

If you come across someone just out of relationship, you could ask, "so do you feel you're ready to date or are you taking a break?" That way you can get her perspective on her readiness. While I realize that is not your original question, a question like that to a girl could help to get the timing correct.

One of my rejections was due to her saying she was too soon out of a relationship. But, it was a hard no, so I figured if she was interested she would contact me again and left it at that. Another time I think the woman had been in a relationship and had gotten out it, but I had asked her out several months previously (and I didn't know at the time if she was in said relationship yet or not), and the consensus on here was to leave her alone.


If she's interested, I'll know. And if she's not...well, I shouldn't be asking, then.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Idkeither View Post
The way women are so agressive these days, you'll do fine with your strategy.

Best of luck to you.


I wouldn't say I have a strategy...and with my not-strategy, no, I didn't do so hot.


So, bring on the aggressiveness. Annny time now...
...And, as it turns out, apparently women are aggressive towards men they actually want to date. (That would be James's third type.) That's never worked out for me either. I've seen that sort of thing in action...I've seen girls hit on guys I've been with, in a bar, even...but for me, not so much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top