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Old 07-22-2019, 09:31 AM
 
Location: New to Bay Area
1,237 posts, read 287,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
Yeah, the bachelor party for the last guy I know who got married involved whisky tasting and poker.
ITA......or fishing trips, dive bars & stuff like that......

 
Old 07-22-2019, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,008 posts, read 7,400,896 times
Reputation: 21633
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel View Post
I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't know why women try to stir things up with their friends re: the "doesn't that bother you" stuff.
It's not just women. In fact in the military, they've had to make a rule against it but there was a tradition of "Jody's" that were marching chants, and Jody was the guy back home bangin' your wife while you were deployed or away on training. Those guys were relentless with one another, you so much as mention your wife or girlfriend doing something and they'd find a way to rib you about how she was doing this and taking that and so forth. Nah. Women do jump on the "leave that jerk!" bandwagon pretty fast, but men give each other a hard time about the woman back home getting up to no good.

I know, or assume, it's all supposed to be banter, but I think it has an effect, if a guy is even a little insecure or uncertain, it can only make it worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
Nope, just someone who has worked with former sex workers and knows that the happy hooker myth is largely a myth. The vast majority of women are in sex work out of financial need, not because they love taking their clothes off and being leered at.

Nothing wrong with women's bodies. A lot wrong with porn culture and the exploitation that comes with it. When a woman supports that, it is perverse and kind of gross in my opinion.
You know I am sorry that you've encountered this, but...

a.) Not all sex workers are hookers, and porn stars and strippers aren't prostitutes.
b.) It will depend probably on what kind of a place you live. What quality of club, for instance, strippers work in. Whether the ladies feel marginalized by a judgmental, conservative local culture...things like that. I know a number of strippers, though I have never been to a strip club, in fact I came fairly close to dating one (I still consider it from time to time) and she's not ashamed, doesn't feel exploited. She enjoyed learning the pole work, it was an athletic skill and she's really good at it. She said she felt awesome and in control and she made a lot of money.
c.) I also know a number of porn actresses, from amateur and cam girls, to actual porn ~stars~ that I have met at conventions. Mostly women, one man. None of them feel exploited. All of them do it of their own free will, because they enjoy it and it was a choice, not a desperate necessity. And you should meet a few Pro Dommes. The ones I know, LOVE their work.

I absolutely support the right of any person to decide to engage in consensual sexual activities, for money or not, on camera if they please, on a stage if they want, and I keep that very separate from exploitation--which also happens in ways where sexuality isn't even involved. A grown woman deciding to take off her clothes in front of people or have sex for money, is far less morally objectionable to me, than another thing we allow in 48 out of 50 states in this country, which is underage marriage. I get so damn tired of people getting so squicky about sex unless it's under this holy special umbrella of a marital vow, people need to get their priorities straight. Living in a place where a 60 year old can marry a 14 year old, but a 30 year old woman can't take cash for consensually having sex, unless (in some states) she's on camera doing it... Criminy. Sex workers that I know, want their work legalized, they want the websites back that they used to vet clients, and they want safe working conditions.

Anyhow. This is a tangent. The weird thing is, despite believing all of this very solidly, I still have discomforts with the idea of my boyfriend participating in such a thing. I know he's been to strip clubs. I know he enjoys porn. What bugs me about it isn't that the women might be exploited, since I think most aren't, nor is it a sense that he's necessarily cheating...

I think what bothers me is that in a long-ish relationship, people stop acting excited about each other. You love one another, you maybe are still affectionate, but the newness and excitement has all simmered down years ago. They are the same old person. Watching my guy's eyes light up for another woman and knowing they can't for me anymore...I hate being the boring same old, same old, no matter what I do, and seeing a guy get all jazzed about strange makes me feel like I should just leave. It makes me feel unwanted and unappreciated. I don't give that kind of excited attention to any other men, when I'm in a relationship with a guy. So it is that specifically that hurts, to me.

Having been involved with open relationship things in the past, I think I'd even prefer that he have an actual sexual involvement with another woman, so long as he didn't act all "kid in candy store" infatuated where I had to see that energy going to someone else and not me.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 12:56 PM
 
352 posts, read 67,736 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
c.) I also know a number of porn actresses, from amateur and cam girls, to actual porn ~stars~ that I have met at conventions. Mostly women, one man. None of them feel exploited. All of them do it of their own free will, because they enjoy it and it was a choice, not a desperate necessity. And you should meet a few Pro Dommes. The ones I know, LOVE their work.
I used to practise in the mental health field & I had a colleague who sent me a lot of people with alternative lifestyles. I worked with several sex workers and the experiences I heard about turned me into someone who felt neutrally about sex work to someone who thinks the clients should probably be criminalised. Some made very good money but felt trapped by the work, most had had traumatic experiences with clients. The predominant issue was lack of respect from clients but most had experienced prejudice about their profession so won't talk about this openly because they fully expect to be told "what do you expect if you sleep with strangers for money". Hope I'm not derailing this thread too much.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 01:13 PM
 
7,638 posts, read 3,002,418 times
Reputation: 12603
I thought I was being pretty open minded when a date suggested we take a cab to a popular strip club in the area. I don’t judge. We had gone to the places in the little touristy town I picked already, and he was kinda “daring” me to agree. I said sure, let’s go! What’s the worse that could happen.

It was fun at first, decent music, bachelor party, friendly girls...his attitude seemed to change when I was having fun and some of the ‘patrons’ started encouraging me to “Get up there!”

Ha. I wouldn’t have, but he decided it was time to go somewhere else, anyway.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 01:21 PM
 
Location: New to Bay Area
1,237 posts, read 287,626 times
Reputation: 1108
Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
I thought I was being pretty open minded when a date suggested we take a cab to a popular strip club in the area. I don’t judge. We had gone to the places in the little touristy town I picked already, and he was kinda “daring” me to agree. I said sure, let’s go! What’s the worse that could happen.

It was fun at first, decent music, bachelor party, friendly girls...his attitude seemed to change when I was having fun and some of the ‘patrons’ started encouraging me to “Get up there!”

Ha. I wouldn’t have, but he decided it was time to go somewhere else, anyway.
Going to a club as a couple....should in no way be an issue. I would hope even the women against their Bf's or husbands going to a bachelor party could be *for* anything as a couple. Ladies...we shouldn't be as controlling as some men try to be....we have to know it's about trusting our men, not controlling them.....same as the men should think.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,008 posts, read 7,400,896 times
Reputation: 21633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I used to practise in the mental health field & I had a colleague who sent me a lot of people with alternative lifestyles. I worked with several sex workers and the experiences I heard about turned me into someone who felt neutrally about sex work to someone who thinks the clients should probably be criminalised. Some made very good money but felt trapped by the work, most had had traumatic experiences with clients. The predominant issue was lack of respect from clients but most had experienced prejudice about their profession so won't talk about this openly because they fully expect to be told "what do you expect if you sleep with strangers for money". Hope I'm not derailing this thread too much.
That's a real shame. I don't know if there is a regional or class component, but I've got to think that there is. Most of the sex workers I have known, have the support of communities, and are not marginalized over it. Of course, we're talking Colorado and others I've known are from California. Certainly the very well off, retired porn actresses I've met seem like strong people who get plenty of respect. I've met Nina Hartley, she teaches classes at conventions.

Issues with clients though, a lot of that could be resolved via legalization and worker safety protocols. I've heard good things about some of the brothels in Nevada (though I don't know if that is representative of them all.) And it is a terrible thing that if a sex worker is mistreated, they can't report to police since their work itself is illegal, in most of the country. That would take a toll on one's mental health.

I just think that the worst elements of it, the trafficking, the mistreatment, the stigma...would be lessened if our society stopped steeping all things sexual and sex work in particular, in shame and just put some sane standards in place like we do for most professions. It's not going away, I don't think.

But again, you are talking about PROSTITUTES and the OP was talking about ~maybe~ a stripper, or a strip club, and those women do not sleep with strangers for money.

But I do think that your position has bearing on the thread, because it is stuff like this, as you said, it can really turn you against sex work when you hear some bad stories like that. I agree, what you've heard seem like things that should not happen. But in an even halfway decent strip club, I don't believe they generally do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TashaPosh View Post
Going to a club as a couple....should in no way be an issue. I would hope even the women against their Bf's or husbands going to a bachelor party could be *for* anything as a couple. Ladies...we shouldn't be as controlling as some men try to be....we have to know it's about trusting our men, not controlling them.....same as the men should think.
Funny. I had a friend who was having a birthday. Other friends of ours arranged a party with a male stripper. My boyfriend was seriously anxious about this. He said that he had "heard" that women, unlike men with female strippers, get away with doing whatever they want with a male stripper. They can touch him and do things to him! With him! So he'd heard! From like...the Adam Corolla show! Yes, an authority on the subject, I'm sure.

I told him, that for my friend's sake, I wasn't going to miss her party. But that I had no real interest in having a strange guy wiggle his body parts at me. My plan was to take a bunch of cash and give it to the Birthday Girl, to enjoy with him, and let him know I'd done so, and that I'd be hanging back and please to just ignore me. I had another female friend present who agreed that she wanted to do the same thing, so we both talked to the young man. And he was super nice, and said that was no problem, and thanked us in advance for the money we were giving Birthday Girl and promised to give her a really fun dance. OK great! So there we were. And the guy...the only interesting thing about him was his tattoos, and his man business was floppy flopping around in this absurd banana hammock and it was all I could do not to laugh at it. It wasn't a flattering look. No one "did anything" with or to him. He just danced around. People got to tuck money in Birthday Girl's clothes and he pulled it out with his teeth. I found it far more ridiculous than arousing.

I think my boyfriend may have been almost disappointed that his somewhat alarmist fantasies were nothing like the reality of the situation. But he always wants to think that when the menfolk aren't looking, women are getting up to scandalous things. I was manager on duty for a women's only party at the club once. He texted to ask if anything hot was going on. I said, "Well, there's a game of Trivial Pursuit happening." "Naked Trivial Pursuit?" "No. Just regular Trivial Pursuit." lol
 
Old 07-22-2019, 02:52 PM
 
Location: So Cal
40,624 posts, read 40,169,289 times
Reputation: 42042
I've heard that those can run from just guys hanging out and having a few beers watching sports all the way to strippers giving guys BJ's.

So, I'd imagine that you'd have to know the deal ahead of time. I'm not trying to be a "nice" guy but strippers and bachelor parties aren't my thing. Even when I was single I wasn't into strip joints. I've been a handful of times and it was usually because someone else wanted to go and it was their idea. I don't recall ever being a bachelor party where a stripper was there. Can't recall. If I had been must have been the boring no BJ type.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
22,681 posts, read 24,276,580 times
Reputation: 49302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I think my boyfriend may have been almost disappointed that his somewhat alarmist fantasies were nothing like the reality of the situation. But he always wants to think that when the menfolk aren't looking, women are getting up to scandalous things. I was manager on duty for a women's only party at the club once. He texted to ask if anything hot was going on. I said, "Well, there's a game of Trivial Pursuit happening." "Naked Trivial Pursuit?" "No. Just regular Trivial Pursuit." lol
I've known more than one guy who was saddened to learn that no, most women have not had a pillow fight in a negligee with her friends.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 04:05 PM
 
352 posts, read 67,736 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
That's a real shame. I don't know if there is a regional or class component, but I've got to think that there is. Most of the sex workers I have known, have the support of communities, and are not marginalized over it. Of course, we're talking Colorado and others I've known are from California. Certainly the very well off, retired porn actresses I've met seem like strong people who get plenty of respect. I've met Nina Hartley, she teaches classes at conventions.

Issues with clients though, a lot of that could be resolved via legalization and worker safety protocols. I've heard good things about some of the brothels in Nevada (though I don't know if that is representative of them all.) And it is a terrible thing that if a sex worker is mistreated, they can't report to police since their work itself is illegal, in most of the country. That would take a toll on one's mental health.

I just think that the worst elements of it, the trafficking, the mistreatment, the stigma...would be lessened if our society stopped steeping all things sexual and sex work in particular, in shame and just put some sane standards in place like we do for most professions. It's not going away, I don't think.

But again, you are talking about PROSTITUTES and the OP was talking about ~maybe~ a stripper, or a strip club, and those women do not sleep with strangers for money.
Yes, they were escorts, mostly middle class women, not in the US.

In my view, the problem is misogyny that exists in society because some of the abuse my clients described was of the vile misogynistic kind. Some men don't get to sleep with the people they want to, and so they want to pay for sex. OK. But the problem is that society shames women who are overtly sexual or who have sex for money, and so those men who pay for sex might believe that the people who offer sexual services are not worthy of respect, and so they think they can get away with bad behaviour and abuse.

At the same time, there's no way I'd want my nieces or young female family members to consider the sex industry as a worthwhile occupation (simply because I do think sleeping with strangers for money affects one's mental health in a variety of ways) and so I'm not sure I'd want it be quite so accepted in society.

Incidentally, I have a male friend who offers erotic massages (to women) for money, he has never been treated with disrespect or experienced abuse at the hands of his female clients.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 04:21 PM
 
Location: New to Bay Area
1,237 posts, read 287,626 times
Reputation: 1108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post


But again, you are talking about PROSTITUTES and the OP was talking about ~maybe~ a stripper, or a strip club, and those women do not sleep with strangers for money.
Lol...Yess! A *public* gentleman's club so they can watch a dancer....or play poker & drink too much whiskey is not prostitutes.....that's a different subject! If someone's Bf or husband spends time with prostitutes, that's a bigger problem than him just supporting his friend getting married.....
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