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Old Today, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,866 posts, read 4,820,767 times
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Among boys, the prevalence of Asperger Syndrome is about 2%. Since AS is a lifelong disorder, then it would follow that 2% of men have AS. Many of these men marry and have children. Among their family members, those who do not have AS, known as “neurotypical (NT),” often experience psychological trauma from attempting to have a close personal relationship with a person who have deficiencies in interpersonal relationships, in areas such as reciprocity, compassion, empathy, recognition of facial expressions, putting themselves in another’s shoes, a constellation of features known as “mind blindness." Challenged in relationship ‘mind blindness,’ AS individuals lack of understanding their own disorder, lack of support to NT/AS families, lack of support and understanding specifically for the NT caregivers. ‘Domestic abuse’ which cause NT spouses to doubt themselves, feel abused, feel oppressed, have stress-related health issues, loneliness, feel unloved, live unfulfilled lives… could be caused by unrecognized AS behaviors…within the home setting.

The situation is unrelenting. It occurs within the home, it and it is often denied by the AS family member. With professional support, understanding, education, information, and validation, NT family members may be effectively treated.

https://www.theneurotypical.com/cass...henomenon.html


I have to add, regretfully, that it is nearly impossible to find "professional support, understanding, education, information, and validation" for NT family members. The failure rate of ASD/NT marriages is as high as 95%.

I would never advise anyone to date an ASD man. Few are prepared for the nullification of one's self that occurs.
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Old Today, 06:19 AM
 
2,162 posts, read 1,710,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Among boys, the prevalence of Asperger Syndrome is about 2%. Since AS is a lifelong disorder, then it would follow that 2% of men have AS. Many of these men marry and have children. Among their family members, those who do not have AS, known as “neurotypical (NT),” often experience psychological trauma from attempting to have a close personal relationship with a person who have deficiencies in interpersonal relationships, in areas such as reciprocity, compassion, empathy, recognition of facial expressions, putting themselves in another’s shoes, a constellation of features known as “mind blindness." Challenged in relationship ‘mind blindness,’ AS individuals lack of understanding their own disorder, lack of support to NT/AS families, lack of support and understanding specifically for the NT caregivers. ‘Domestic abuse’ which cause NT spouses to doubt themselves, feel abused, feel oppressed, have stress-related health issues, loneliness, feel unloved, live unfulfilled lives… could be caused by unrecognized AS behaviors…within the home setting.

The situation is unrelenting. It occurs within the home, it and it is often denied by the AS family member. With professional support, understanding, education, information, and validation, NT family members may be effectively treated.

https://www.theneurotypical.com/cass...henomenon.html


I have to add, regretfully, that it is nearly impossible to find "professional support, understanding, education, information, and validation" for NT family members. The failure rate of ASD/NT marriages is as high as 95%.

I would never advise anyone to date an ASD man. Few are prepared for the nullification of one's self that occurs.
Interesting. I never thought of linking a partner on spectrum and his/her lack of empathy as a potential driver of the other NT partner feeling symptoms commonly associated with domestic abuse.
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Old Today, 07:09 AM
 
12,483 posts, read 9,973,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Among boys, the prevalence of Asperger Syndrome is about 2%. Since AS is a lifelong disorder, then it would follow that 2% of men have AS. Many of these men marry and have children. Among their family members, those who do not have AS, known as “neurotypical (NT),” often experience psychological trauma from attempting to have a close personal relationship with a person who have deficiencies in interpersonal relationships, in areas such as reciprocity, compassion, empathy, recognition of facial expressions, putting themselves in another’s shoes, a constellation of features known as “mind blindness." Challenged in relationship ‘mind blindness,’ AS individuals lack of understanding their own disorder, lack of support to NT/AS families, lack of support and understanding specifically for the NT caregivers. ‘Domestic abuse’ which cause NT spouses to doubt themselves, feel abused, feel oppressed, have stress-related health issues, loneliness, feel unloved, live unfulfilled lives… could be caused by unrecognized AS behaviors…within the home setting.

The situation is unrelenting. It occurs within the home, it and it is often denied by the AS family member. With professional support, understanding, education, information, and validation, NT family members may be effectively treated.

https://www.theneurotypical.com/cass...henomenon.html


I have to add, regretfully, that it is nearly impossible to find "professional support, understanding, education, information, and validation" for NT family members. The failure rate of ASD/NT marriages is as high as 95%.

I would never advise anyone to date an ASD man. Few are prepared for the nullification of one's self that occurs.
Wow. I am married to an NT person who has lack of empathy deemed in the normal range. And it sucks enough to cause me to leave. This is very enlightening. A hard core bummer for AS. But very enlightening. It makes a lot of sense.
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Old Today, 07:22 AM
 
7,566 posts, read 2,986,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Wow. I am married to an NT person who has lack of empathy deemed in the normal range. And it sucks enough to cause me to leave. This is very enlightening. A hard core bummer for AS. But very enlightening. It makes a lot of sense.
There are huge amounts of people who stay in relationships with others that are undiagnosed. If you ever have the chance to study *Intermittent Explosive Disorder, you probably will think: Wow! That’s my brother in law! Or my dad, whomever you knew that behaved exactly like that. My sister just responds with: “I just tune him out, he gets over it.” I find it the definition of abusive though, being screamed at? I couldn’t live like that. One never knows all that goes on in someone else’s home.

And with that, we would have to acknowledge that yes, it’s possible for all kinds of people to have relationships.


*Intermittent explosive disorder involves repeated, sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which you react grossly out of proportion to the situation. Road rage, domestic abuse, throwing or breaking objects, or other temper tantrums may be signs of intermittent explosive disorder.
-MayoClinic.org
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Old Today, 07:25 AM
 
12,483 posts, read 9,973,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
There are huge amounts of people who stay in relationships with others that are undiagnosed. If you ever have the chance to study *Intermittent Explosive Disorder, you probably will think: Wow! That’s my brother in law! Or my dad, whomever you knew that behaved exactly like that. My sister just responds with: “I just tune him out, he gets over it.” I find it the definition of abusive though, being screamed at? I couldn’t live like that. One never knows all that goes on in someone else’s home.
I could not live like that either. My husband never yelled. But boy could he play mind games as he sought to justify some pretty f'ed up stuff.

Quote:
And with that, we would have to acknowledge that yes, it’s possible for all kinds of people to have relationships.
Therapists will tell you that empathy may be hard to learn and develop. BUt habits to be a good human CAN. But how does a person decide learning those habits is useful? I guess that is up to them.

Quote:
*Intermittent explosive disorder involves repeated, sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which you react grossly out of proportion to the situation. Road rage, domestic abuse, throwing or breaking objects, or other temper tantrums may be signs of intermittent explosive disorder.
-MayoClinic.org
Not A FAN.
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Old Today, 07:27 AM
 
3,845 posts, read 1,776,293 times
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I fully understand the challenges associated with working with people on the autism spectrum, since I have experience doing that. I work primarily with people who have fairly significant cognitive deficits, but we ran an employment service program that served people with what used to be termed Asperger's, and people with that disorder could be a unique challenge to work with. Men and women really struggled with interpersonal stuff in the work place, forming one sided crushes, failing to read people's reactions, and generally making things awkward for co-workers at times. I can only imagine trying to form a long term relationship with a man or woman with the common symptoms of Autism (Asperger's). I understand people's concerns.

Still, it kind of feels like this thread and threads like it are a discussion about who gets tossed from the social lifeboat. I feel a tad guilty being all understanding.
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Old Today, 07:35 AM
 
12,483 posts, read 9,973,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
I fully understand the challenges associated with working with people on the autism spectrum, since I have experience doing that. I work primarily with people who have fairly significant cognitive deficits, but we ran an employment service program that served people with what used to be termed Asperger's, and people with that disorder could be a unique challenge to work with. Men and women really struggled with interpersonal stuff in the work place, forming one sided crushes, failing to read people's reactions, and generally making things awkward for co-workers at times. I can only imagine trying to form a long term relationship with a man or woman with the common symptoms of Autism (Asperger's). I understand people's concerns.

Still, it kind of feels like this thread and threads like it are a discussion about who gets tossed from the social lifeboat. I feel a tad guilty being all understanding.
I hear the bolded. BUT the question asked is would *I* date a person with Autism. And upon reflection, unless they were extraordinarily adept and behaviors, I think the answer is no. Yes I feel bad that certain disorders make things harder than hard. But I, personally, don't owe anyone my life.
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Old Today, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,866 posts, read 4,820,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
Still, it kind of feels like this thread and threads like it are a discussion about who gets tossed from the social lifeboat. I feel a tad guilty being all understanding.
I get it.

But people need to know, especially women who are considering that shy awkward guy who maybe works in tech and loves to talk about his special interests as long as anyone's willing to listen. Some high functioning autistic men watch rom-coms or read romance novels to try to discern how to pass as an NT in a dating situation.

I belong to an online group of people, mainly women, none of whom knew when they married that their new partner was autistic. I certainly didn't know.

Example: A woman in our online group had a brain seizure. Her husband suggested she drive herself to the hospital because he didn't want to pay for an ambulance. Then he stepped over her body on his way of out of the room. She survived and got a divorce.

We were watching TV one evening, eating dinner from trays. I choked on a piece of meat and kept trying to dislodge it. He kept eating, shoveling food in as fast as possible, the way he always eats. I was coughing and straining with my entire body trying to rid myself of the obstruction. He was smiling at the TV screen in rapt attention.

Finally, I did expel the offending object. When I got my breath back, I asked him why he hadn't called 911. "I could hear you breathe," was his response. And if I had stopped breathing, I would have been dead by the time an ambulance arrived. Their average response time is 14 minutes.

He would have called 911 if someone had told him to do it. I couldn't talk. So things had to change.

He took a CPR class and learned the Heimlich maneuver. I decided I would have to train him so that his brain would automatically know how to react to emergency situations. So when I had an asthma flare, I'd have him take me to the ER. Now, he asks if he should take me if I seem to be having trouble breathing. The old DH would have just ignored it and kept watching YouTube videos. Though now that we've moved to a different city, I will have to retrain him because there are two ERs fairly close by and he might not be able to decide between them.

I've had surgeries in recent years. He didn't know what to do before or after. I had to teach him that he must feed me if I were confined to bed post-surgery, otherwise he would only buy food for himself. He had to help me up the stairs and perhaps even help me toilet. Common sense stuff that most people take for granted, but I can never take anything for granted. I can never assume he knows something everyone else "just knows."

I love my husband. But if I'd known 25 years ago what I know now...
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Old Today, 09:23 AM
 
3,845 posts, read 1,776,293 times
Reputation: 7577
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I hear the bolded. BUT the question asked is would *I* date a person with Autism. And upon reflection, unless they were extraordinarily adept and behaviors, I think the answer is no. Yes I feel bad that certain disorders make things harder than hard. But I, personally, don't owe anyone my life.
I agree, and I appreciate the fullness of your response. I could name a dozen conditions or biographical tidbits that are part of people's lives that would cause me to not want to date them. With a disorder like Autism that a person had no part in acquiring and limited control over its impact on their behavior, it can be both understandable (even wise) that individuals won't date them, and sad that most individuals will feel that way.

Part of the problem is the wording of the question. I think maybe mods should make the person asking these types of questions the subject of the title sentence. We have a thread still active where a guy with a pretty significant sounding disability asks if he can date or make friends. He asks, "Can I" as opposed to "Would you". Framing it that way leaves open and perhaps even invites more hopeful yet still honest responses.
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Old Today, 09:38 AM
 
3,845 posts, read 1,776,293 times
Reputation: 7577
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
I get it.

But people need to know, especially women who are considering that shy awkward guy who maybe works in tech and loves to talk about his special interests as long as anyone's willing to listen. Some high functioning autistic men watch rom-coms or read romance novels to try to discern how to pass as an NT in a dating situation.

I belong to an online group of people, mainly women, none of whom knew when they married that their new partner was autistic. I certainly didn't know.

Example: A woman in our online group had a brain seizure. Her husband suggested she drive herself to the hospital because he didn't want to pay for an ambulance. Then he stepped over her body on his way of out of the room. She survived and got a divorce.

We were watching TV one evening, eating dinner from trays. I choked on a piece of meat and kept trying to dislodge it. He kept eating, shoveling food in as fast as possible, the way he always eats. I was coughing and straining with my entire body trying to rid myself of the obstruction. He was smiling at the TV screen in rapt attention.

Finally, I did expel the offending object. When I got my breath back, I asked him why he hadn't called 911. "I could hear you breathe," was his response. And if I had stopped breathing, I would have been dead by the time an ambulance arrived. Their average response time is 14 minutes.

He would have called 911 if someone had told him to do it. I couldn't talk. So things had to change.

He took a CPR class and learned the Heimlich maneuver. I decided I would have to train him so that his brain would automatically know how to react to emergency situations. So when I had an asthma flare, I'd have him take me to the ER. Now, he asks if he should take me if I seem to be having trouble breathing. The old DH would have just ignored it and kept watching YouTube videos. Though now that we've moved to a different city, I will have to retrain him because there are two ERs fairly close by and he might not be able to decide between them.

I've had surgeries in recent years. He didn't know what to do before or after. I had to teach him that he must feed me if I were confined to bed post-surgery, otherwise he would only buy food for himself. He had to help me up the stairs and perhaps even help me toilet. Common sense stuff that most people take for granted, but I can never take anything for granted. I can never assume he knows something everyone else "just knows."

I love my husband. But if I'd known 25 years ago what I know now...
The bolded can apply to lots of issues

I don't mean to downplay the challenges you face with your husband, though, or the weight someone should give those issues before considering a relationship. In my experience people with Autism can have a puzzling inability to generalize from one situation to the next. Your approach to guide your husband through as many specific scenarios as you can is a good approach, but as you know it has its limits and it can be tough on you. You might consider a health alert system of some sort, if you don't already have one.
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