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Old 08-02-2019, 11:26 AM
 
3,853 posts, read 1,782,941 times
Reputation: 7603

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
Yes, he knew I was not interested in him romantically, I told him. But it was clear we had some degree of emotional attraction to one another where we shared a lot about ourselves in conversation and enjoyed one another's company.

However, I didn't sense any kind of pining from him, attachment to an outcome or pressure or that he wanted anything with me. He just seemed into my friendship but we got close quite quickly.

Our first date was a long hike to a beach with some snacks he brought with him. I remember looking at him and thinking, nope I don't fancy you. We met through OLD.

I don't always know within minutes whether I am going to be attracted to someone. It definitely takes me longer to decide if someone has something that interests me on a deeper level than just looks.

I have started relationships based on attraction and lust, but there isn't always much beyond that or the person turns out not to be what I am looking for in other ways.

As an aside (and don't mean to derail the thread) but you may not have had many sexual experiences, I have the opposite problem where most people I have met through dating or even men in my everyday life, want to have sex with me and men want me to be their meaningless bit on the side, but I've never had a loving relationship with someone who wants to be with me long term, for a couple of reasons. One is I have a sleep disability (DSPD) that makes me very nocturnal and few of my boyfriends have put up with my odd sleep habits so far.

I asked the guy I had the fling with whether he envisioned us being together long term he said no, he wanted someone he could go to sleep with and wake up with and he saw the hours I kept as being disruptive to his lifestyle. He gave other reasons too related to something I can't change.

The others I've been involved with have wanted kids but I can't have children as I can't get up in the morning.

I can't separate sex from emotions so when I have a sexual relationship with someone and they are not interested in me in any other way, that can be a bit painful. So I don't do that anymore.

So just because you can get sex or people attracted to you doesn't mean anyone wants to commit to you or love you, or that you are going to meet people who are right for you.

I'm mid 30s and never had anything significant in terms of a relationship. There's another reason for it too that I won't go into.

Hope I didn't hijack the thread.
Can't rep you Carly1983. Regarding the bolded part of your comment, it does quite the opposite, really. While you're getting some push back, I really appreciate the effort you're making here. Even if JBT or AtArmsLength ultimately reject your advice, it's relevant, thoughtful, and honest in a way we seldom are here. I hope they give it some serious thought.

Your honesty regarding how it works for people who aren't very physically attractive is refreshing. I've never believed that two people who are decidedly not objectively attractive couple up because they see each other across a crowded room and think they've discovered their reason for living. Like you said, that's just not likely in the cards for them. So what is? I think you're just suggesting that people consider choosing from among the options actually available to them. That's kind advice.

And really, I don't think most moderately attractive people have that lightning strike kind of experience either, at least not often with people who feel the same way about them. Most of us aren't someone's ideal. We benefit from the other person having desires that motivate them to want to connect. That basic need serves to shift our perception from ideal but very unlikely to pretty good and maybe possible. I think the majority of people also benefit from time shared and bonding experiences, including sex, to become more attractive in our partner's eyes.

That shift away from ideal and toward possible may be bigger for some people, but still possible if they let it happen. A flame can grow from a small spark or from a glowing ember, but it doesn't have to start out an inferno.

 
Old 08-02-2019, 11:36 AM
 
7,487 posts, read 11,629,808 times
Reputation: 8333
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
No. Romantic interest or friend. Choose one and give up the other forever.
That's not how it works. In a poll I posted a while ago, I think over 60% of people said the main thing they wanted from a partner was a best friend. Unless they were lying, some women really ARE looking for a best friend. At least ... so they say, lol.

If you're looking for a best friend, then go after that. If you're looking for hot sex, then chase after that.

Don't be suckered into turning it into a game. Keep your eyes on the prize!

Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
I am a 34 year old virgin. A year and a half ago I had a very brief month-long thing with someone who was not mentally healthy. She was rebounding hard just a few weeks after her long-term live-in boyfriend had walked out on her. She approached me, and despite miles of red flags I gave it a shot since it was the only time any woman had expressed any interest in me. It ended in abuse once she’d rebounded a little more and I fell off the pedestal she’d put me on. Even if it ended ugly the experience made me really want to date more and gave me a little confidence that I could.

I worked as hard as I could for a year to build up my market value, learn what I could from articles and videos (it’s how I ended up here), and “put myself out there” as they say, but I had a hell of a time trying to date. I did have two small successes last fall when I finally got two women to accept a date; one stood me up, the other ghosted me after a friendly-but-awkward first date. A few months later I decided to quit orienting my life around something that I was getting such little ROI on. I’m not good at reading social cues, the whole dating process is completely non-intuitive for me, and I lack characteristics that women are generally known to find attractive. That all combines to make dating very difficult for me, along with my location and lack of experience.

That’s my story in a nutshell.
It should be a lot easier at age 34.

I'll be honest, depending where you live, that's the PRIME age. People are mature (for the most part), have had some flings and are generally looking for long term characteristics.

You might not feel it, but it should be turning around for you.
 
Old 08-02-2019, 11:51 AM
 
328 posts, read 65,027 times
Reputation: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
Can't rep you Carly1983. Regarding the bolded part of your comment, it does quite the opposite, really. While you're getting some push back, I really appreciate the effort you're making here. Even if JBT or AtArmsLength ultimately reject your advice, it's relevant, thoughtful, and honest in a way we seldom are here. I hope they give it some serious thought.
Thanks.
 
Old 08-02-2019, 11:53 AM
 
328 posts, read 65,027 times
Reputation: 651
Homina12 I do think you're right and I also think that people who aren't physically attractive should focus less on OLD and instead focus on connecting with all kinds of people offline, without expectation or attachment, because people grow to like one another through shared experiences and seeing one another regularly.

This approach can be hard to tolerate if one is lonely or desperate for connection with the opposite sex which is why I think therapy is a good idea. I also recommend coming to terms with the idea that one may never find love. I accepted that after my last experience being told yet again that my sleep disorder is not something he would want to take on. I asked myself, if I never find love would I get enough meaning from my life? No I would not, so I needed more community and connection with other people in general and focusing on that. I'm also doing OLD but I don't expect anything from it.

Sometimes it's good to take away the expectation and put your focus into other life areas which involve connection and community.

I don't think I would have fallen for the guy I had the fling with if he had had expectations or attachments. He was a buddhist and seemed really zen and up for whatever life brought his way. He gave me room to like him and didn't ask or expect anything of me. He didn't orbit me, I made a move on him. His attitude was quite rare in my experience.

Last edited by Carly1983; 08-02-2019 at 12:50 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2019, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Boulder, CO
474 posts, read 152,053 times
Reputation: 898
OP, now that some time has elapsed, can you kind of cycle back to your friends and ask them what was up with "Little Miss Unsociable" ? They could provide more ground truth than all our guesses about dead pets, stomach-aches and the like.


Suspect you'll hear "all she said was she wasn't attracted to you, and didn't want to give you false hope" or something like that. My guess.
 
Old 08-02-2019, 12:25 PM
 
4,322 posts, read 4,726,157 times
Reputation: 2939
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Don't take this the wrong way, I think a lot of women would describe this fairly common kind of story in this way, and I think the way in which women 'view' or at least describe men creates a lot of poor self esteem for men.

I feel like women so often say ... there's attractive guys and there's unattractive guys.

Obviously, if you fall into the 'initially unattractive' camp which most guys do for any given woman and a good % of all men do for almost ALL women, then they think of themselves as ugly.

So ... basically 20-30% of all guys think of themselves as butt ugly because no women or virtually no women find them initially attractive. Thus, why men in this thread think they're butt ugly, which I have no doubt, they're perfectly normal looking dudes.

I think a better way to put it is ... he's fine, or he's OK, I didn't want to jump his bones. He didn't get me wet. Whatever.

Unattractive is quite harsh. Obviously, some guys do it too.

For me, it's a sliding scale. I really can't say I've been on a date with someone who's UNattractive. There's varying levels of attractiveness.
I think thatís part of the disconnect. Men are attracted to a lot more woman then vice versa at first glance so the average couple thatís together thereís a decent chance the man thought she was kinda cute at first but not give versa.

I also think when men like me say they want somebody theyíre attracted to I have a feeling women picture in their head a blonde super model or some freak of nature IG model when thatís not the case.
 
Old 08-02-2019, 12:26 PM
 
4,322 posts, read 4,726,157 times
Reputation: 2939
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADogNamedSam View Post
OP, now that some time has elapsed, can you kind of cycle back to your friends and ask them what was up with "Little Miss Unsociable" ? They could provide more ground truth than all our guesses about dead pets, stomach-aches and the like.


Suspect you'll hear "all she said was she wasn't attracted to you, and didn't want to give you false hope" or something like that. My guess.
It’s really not something I want to know tbh because if it’s the answer I suspect then it’s really not gonna help me out at all it’s just gonna make me feel bad.
 
Old 08-02-2019, 12:40 PM
 
8,208 posts, read 6,068,821 times
Reputation: 5841
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT1980 View Post
Itís really not something I want to know tbh because if itís the answer I suspect then itís really not gonna help me out at all itís just gonna make me feel bad.
You don't really need to know. If someone is going to treat you like you're worthless, they aren't worth another thought. The best thing to do is move on...
 
Old 08-02-2019, 12:44 PM
 
8,208 posts, read 6,068,821 times
Reputation: 5841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I do think that people who aren't physically attractive should focus less on OLD and instead focus on connecting with all kinds of people offline, without expectation or attachment, because people grow to like one another through shared experiences and seeing one another regularly.

This approach can be hard to tolerate if one is lonely or desperate for connection with the opposite sex which is why I think therapy is a good idea. I also recommend coming to terms with the idea that one may never find love. I accepted that after my last experience being told yet again that my sleep disorder is not something he would want to take on. I asked myself, if I never find love would I get enough meaning from my life? No I would not, so I needed more community and connection with other people in general and focusing on that. I'm also doing OLD but I don't expect anything from it.

Sometimes it's good to take away the expectation and put your focus into other life areas which involve connection and community.

I don't think I would have fallen for the guy I had the fling with if he had had expectations or attachments. He was a buddhist and seemed really zen and up for whatever life brought his way. He gave me room to like him and didn't ask or expect anything of me. He didn't orbit me, I made a move on him. His attitude was quite rare in my experience.
I feel even the more attractive people can benefit from offline-living, but that's just me. While I seem to do fine with women on a general level (not really getting into relationships, but overall interaction), I don't think I would do well with online dating even if I was interested in online dating.


And I especially agree with and encourage people to face the possibility that you may never find love (again or for the first time). Face it and come to terms. What if you never find love? What would you do? How would you find meaning?

Fortunately for me, I am creative so if I never "find love", I still have what I need.
 
Old 08-02-2019, 12:52 PM
 
2,171 posts, read 1,715,389 times
Reputation: 2734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_EU View Post
.....get ripped (to roughly 8-9% bodyfat)

Good luck, bro!
Any good pharmaceutical for that?
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