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Old Yesterday, 07:58 AM
 
4 posts, read 184 times
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I would not try the slow burn friend thing rarely works. I would approach as many woman as possible and let your intentions known right away.

I’m in my 40’s and most people of my friends and people my age are married with kids so the meeting through mutual friends thing doesn’t really happen anymore.
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Old Yesterday, 10:57 AM
 
4 posts, read 184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Highlighted the pertinent bit. I'm fine with "putting aside the agenda" to be conversational and friendly with women, and even with actively trying to start a friendship with her. (Though I don't do the latter very often with anyone, male or female, and I'll talk about why later.) If I wasn't fine with it I would have stopped talking to women when I decided to stop focusing on trying to create dating opportunities. (The truth is, there's very little difference behaviorally between "Me Talking to a Woman To Be Friendly and Pleasant" and "Me Talking to a Woman And About To Ask Her Out", and maybe that's part of my problem.) But whether there's a difference in how I'm talking to her or not, there is absolutely a difference in my own mentality: either I think of her as a potential date, or I don't, and it's not because I don't see her as a person either way.


My experiences with the immutability of women's non-attraction to me being what they are, I've learned that my mental health is better if I find out her interest level in me as soon as I think I could be interested in her. Once upon a time I would drift along being friends with girls, hoping they might some day develop interest in me. The last time I did it led to the absolute lowest point in my life, a full-on nervous breakdown. It took me years to recover from it. And it wasn't her fault, it was mine...I failed to emotionally disengage my feelings for her when she told me "You're a great guy, and I just know that there's somebody out there for you, but it's not me." I just kept holding out hope that she might...change her mind about me. Though it's been 15 years since I did it, in the past I have been unable to hold "interest" at merely being "interest." My interest turns to being smitten turns to being infatuated turns to full-on unrequited love...and that is far, far crueler than any quick rejection will ever be.


Now, as to the "limited friendships" thing. All I can say is, I'm an introvert, social situations and social networks are very draining to me. Frankly I'm very bad at maintaining a lot of social contacts. I feel bad about it sometimes, I just don't have the sort of personality to give more than about 15-20 relationships the time and energy and maintenance that they deserve at any given time. If I add one...unfortunately, I tend to let another drift off. I invest my limited social energies into a smaller number of close friends and relatives, and I simply lack the capability to keep up with more without feeling like I'm wearing myself out. So, no, I tend to not seek out new friendships on a regular basis. Acquaintanceships, sure, but not friendships, and that goes for both men and women, young and old, romantically interested in them or not.


(That said, I have tried to make an effort to reach out to people from my past who have been important to me. For instance, last year, I reached out to and went to visit several old college friends who I hadn't seen in years, for no other reason than I valued their friendship and hated that I'd let it drift. I'm just not very good about doing that sort of thing, or keeping close touch with a lot of different people, on a consistent basis.)


So, for those two reasons, if I was interested in dating a woman, I tried to ask her as soon as I thought I might be interested, sometimes as soon as two-three engagements. I'm not interested in playing a "friendship numbers game" because 1- Investing in a new friendship is taxing on my social energies, and 2- I have a history of falling deeper and deeper in love with women who are friends if I allow myself to maintain any level of romantic interest for them at all, and I refuse to do that again.






That list stops at #2 for me. I've never had a woman come right out and tell me that she's single, other than the one who rebounded with me (and later abused me). Women have wanted to spend time with me, they've known that I was single...but other than my dangerous exception, none have ever made any production out of their relationship status, unless it was to drop early, heavy hints about the fact that they were already involved with someone. To be fair I've never asked, either, absurdly, because I didn't want to creep her out even though I might be thinking of asking her out. But I'd found out the relationship status of all of the women I've asked out in ways other than them telling me of their own accord.


So, if what you're telling me that I can potentially gauge a woman's interest by her letting me, a single guy, know that she is also single...well, women don't do that. They either let drop that they have a boyfriend/husband, usually very early in our acquaintanceship, or they keep the fact that they're single to themselves and I find out their relationship status in a different way. "Patty-cake."
Yeah when a woman sees you as a friend chances she ever sees you in a romantic light is slim to none.

Attraction is either there or isnít it a woman doesnt show romantic interest soon then itís not gonna happen.
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Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM
 
7,709 posts, read 3,027,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg78 View Post
I would not try the slow burn friend thing rarely works. I would approach as many woman as possible and let your intentions known right away.

Iím in my 40ís and most people of my friends and people my age are married with kids so the meeting through mutual friends thing doesnít really happen anymore.
In one day, or as a general life rule? Sounds exhausting either way. Maybe if you don't really know what you want, other than getting laid, it works though.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
 
7,709 posts, read 3,027,184 times
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Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
- BE a positive, grateful and energetic person. Not present a positive, cheerful, charming exterior. BE positive, cheerful and grateful person. Not acting. Not playing. This is the hardest, most beneficial thing you will ever do in your life. But it is beyond true that it is not happy people who are grateful, but grateful people who are happy. By being this person, your self esteem will fall into line without your half realizing it.
All of the OP was good, I especially enjoyed the proceeding 'landing with your legs in the air' miscommunications, (perhaps it was the gravy?) but good effort! Hopefully it's not lost on those who could benefit, but it doesn't seem to always work that way.
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Old Yesterday, 07:34 PM
 
810 posts, read 206,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
In one day, or as a general life rule? Sounds exhausting either way. Maybe if you don't really know what you want, other than getting laid, it works though.

I think he's saying, play the numbers game and be up front with what you're looking for.
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Old Yesterday, 08:00 PM
 
796 posts, read 458,782 times
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either casual friends or acquaintances is best, make your intentions known early. if you try the good friend route, then swoop in for the poke, you'll get shut down quick.

In general, unless you somehow have a very close connection to her friends or sibling, she's not going to want to be good friends with you in the first place. Unless she sees you like a gay friend, or an orbiter with $$$$. Any girl that goes out of her way to talk to you or "hang out" that you're not already close friends with is likely somewhat interested in you. If this is the case, and you're not interested in her, its best not to accept her advances to avoid leading her on. Also some women are naturally flirty or are simply attention whores, so it's not a good idea to jump to conclusions early without knowing her relationship status/intention.

if youre a guy and never had a relationship or had women show interest as mentioned above, then it's likely that majority of women in general do not find you attractive. you're better off accumulating $$$, status, and a drive towards accomplishing XXXXX first instead of attempting to charm women that are rejecting you over and over and over again because they think you're just a worthless introverted midget balding ogre that lives in his parents basement playing magic cards and WoW.
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Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
 
810 posts, read 206,098 times
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Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
either casual friends or acquaintances is best, make your intentions known early. if you try the good friend route, then swoop in for the poke, you'll get shut down quick.

In general, unless you somehow have a very close connection to her friends or sibling, she's not going to want to be good friends with you in the first place. Unless she sees you like a gay friend, or an orbiter with $$$$. Any girl that goes out of her way to talk to you or "hang out" that you're not already close friends with is likely somewhat interested in you. If this is the case, and you're not interested in her, its best not to accept her advances to avoid leading her on. Also some women are naturally flirty or are simply attention whores, so it's not a good idea to jump to conclusions early without knowing her relationship status/intention.

if youre a guy and never had a relationship or had women show interest as mentioned above, then it's likely that majority of women in general do not find you attractive. you're better off accumulating $$$, status, and a drive towards accomplishing XXXXX first instead of attempting to charm women that are rejecting you over and over and over again because they think you're just a worthless introverted midget balding ogre that lives in his parents basement playing magic cards and WoW.

Re: "Out of her way"...what sorts of behavior are "out of her way"? Can you give any examples?


Re: "Don't see flirting and jump to conclusions without knowing her intention"...how do you "know her intention" without "jumping to conclusions" in asking her out? That seems counter-intuitive. "If she flirts with you she might be interested and might want you to ask her out, but you shouldn't jump to conclusions and ask her out until you know whether or not she wants you to ask her out." That's extremely confusing. Still, that fits something that I've experienced...the only girl who ever acted flirty towards me wasn't actually interested in me when I asked her out.


Re: "Accumulate $$$, status, and achievements"...frankly, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not interested in a woman who's going to be chasing money or power. I'm not interested in accumulating money or power. And my goals are for me. Not for anyone else. I'm not a showy or boastful person, most people don't know when I accomplish my goals. They bring me a sense of satisfaction, I don't care whether anyone else even notices.


Re: "Introverted midget balding basement-dwelling WoW and Magic nerd"...I know this is an insecurity coming out, but what about an introverted, tall, balding, single house-dwelling, nerdishly-oriented, moderately socially engaged professional? Eh, I know my answer as to whether women are generally interested in that. Wanted to challenge your assumption though.

Last edited by At Arms Length; Yesterday at 08:51 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM
 
796 posts, read 458,782 times
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RE: out of her way, you'll know it when you see it. If you have to ask, you haven't seen a girl show interest in you.

RE: jumping to conclusion meaning not getting handsey and making her uncomfortable without knowing or asking her out directly.

RE: doing things that many women are attracted to. up to you

RE: it's a stereotype and a joke. My point stands. The average woman finds the majority of guys unattractive. If you fall into this category, then it is what it is. Either do what you can to be more attractive or DGAF and forget about the relationship. Life is strange though, it may come when you least expect it.
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Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM
 
810 posts, read 206,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
RE: out of her way, you'll know it when you see it. If you have to ask, you haven't seen a girl show interest in you.

"Know it when I see it," that's a bold statement given my lack of natural social intuition. I've worked hard for what social skills I've got, and I acquired them through lots and lots of daily practice. They let me engage in normal every-day social interactions with...decent success. Getting lots and lots of practice at the dating and attraction game, though? That's a tall order. My chances to develop and practice social skills for that sort of situation are few and far in-between. Unless you really mean something that there's really no way I can miss...her coming over, sitting in my lap, and giving me a kiss or something like that...there's a decent chance I actually wouldn't know it when I see it, because my awareness of social cues is largely acquired through experience, observation, and trial-and-error.



So, specific examples would be appreciated. From anyone reading this. The floor is open.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
RE: jumping to conclusion meaning not getting handsey and making her uncomfortable without knowing or asking her out directly.


Granted. I've never gotten handsey. If I made anyone uncomfortable ever it was completely unintentional. (I did have a woman tell me my appearance was intimidating once though.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
RE: it's a stereotype and a joke. My point stands. The average woman finds the majority of guys unattractive. If you fall into this category, then it is what it is. Either do what you can to be more attractive or DGAF and forget about the relationship. Life is strange though, it may come when you least expect it.


I did a lot to be more attractive. It wasn't enough to help me in escaping my category. I decided I'd spent enough of my time and energy on trying to force something that can't be forced. No matter how much work I put into it, it will always require the interest of a person whose opinions I cannot control. I decided to spend my time and energy on pursuits that I can force, e.g., career, hobbies, pursuits, goals. Things I can succeed at. Things that don't make me feel like a failure. So I guess it is what it is.
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Old Yesterday, 11:52 PM
 
7,709 posts, read 3,027,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
"Know it when I see it," that's a bold statement given my lack of natural social intuition. I've worked hard for what social skills I've got, and I acquired them through lots and lots of daily practice. They let me engage in normal every-day social interactions with...decent success. Getting lots and lots of practice at the dating and attraction game, though?.
Yeah, never mind, it didnít fit your situation. At all. None of it.
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