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Old Yesterday, 01:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
No, but it does make me cautious and protective of myself in certain types of situations.

Like if a drunk girl was trying to feel me up.

(Kidding.)
(Mostly.)
Ha! If you acted uninterested, even a drunk girl might stagger away, and leave you alone -don’t worry about that.
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Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
Ha! If you acted uninterested, even a drunk girl might stagger away, and leave you alone -don’t worry about that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2n77-SvkBo
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Old Yesterday, 01:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Very similar to the expression one of my uber passengers had last night. (But I never drink and drive. )
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
Very similar to the expression one of my uber passengers had last night. (But I never drink and drive. )

Sounds like you don't have to.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Sounds like you don't have to.
It’s a zoo out there at night AAL, I need a dash cam. I’m lucky to be privy to some end of the night discussions though, so it’s perfect for me.

Sorry, back on topic.
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Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Ouch.





Re: "Personality types"...that mostly doesn't fit me. I'm not a strong personality. I am not bold or deliberate. I can take charge, and I have in certain situations, and I have leadership skills and abilities, but I tend to defer to stronger personalities. I am a second-guesser, a self-doubter, indecisive, hesitant. I over-think and over-analyze, constantly. My natural inclination is to put more stock into what other people think, feel, and say than I do in my own opinions and beliefs...if I'm challenged or criticized on something, I immediately revert to a state of self-examination to see if what was presented is more accurate or valid than what I believe.


At the very least, though, when all of that pensiveness and pausality is worked through, and I have determined what my goals should be and what the best courses of action to achieve them are, I can be very decisive, confident, and determined, almost to the point of arrogance; it just takes me a while to get there.



Re: Body language and boldness, that seems to be something that is dictated by confidence, of which I have very little when it comes to women. When I've done my asking, I've tried to muster as much confidence as I could, but it's still very likely that this was seen for what it was, a facade masking my nervousness and lack of confidence. Probably played a factor in my rejections.


That said, in my new job, I have actually seen the benefit of coming in projecting false confidence. I did that...I projected an air of authority, competence, and attempted likeability, and people responded to it very well. As a result of how they were treating me in reaction, I have begun to develop real, actual self-confidence in myself and my professional abilities. For instance, not long ago I screwed up on the job for the first time. My boss made a snide remark about it. But even in the short time I've been here I feel like I've already grown in my confidence in myself. Where that snide remark would have in the past sent me into a spiral of negativity and self-doubt, here I chuckled (because it was funny) and set myself to solving the problem that I'd caused. That feels like real growth to me.


Could I develop that with women, if they were to respond favorably to my facade of self-confidence with them? Maybe. But with women my balloon tends to get pricked and everything I was trying to fortify myself for comes crashing down with another rejection. If, on my first day on the job, I had been questioned, challenged, disregarded, or disrespected, I suspect my initial facade of self-confidence would have come crashing down then as well. People would have seen my naked insecurities and vulnerabilities, I would have felt exposed in my new job...and I very well might have spiraled out of control when my boss criticized me that day, because I hadn't been allowed to grow a buttress of real self-confidence against the veneer of projected self-confidence.



What I'm saying is...maybe if I were to ask a woman out, and she dealt me a pair of pocket rocket aces and agreed instead of turning the card table over and walking off...I might come to believe it's a game I can learn to play after all. But if she doesn't, and the cards go flying, and I'm wondering what was the wrong move I made once again, I'll feel even worse about my ability to play the game.






All depends on what boxes I check for her. If I know and own who I am, and I stand out and am unique, but who I am and what's unique about me aren't very attractive and don't check many boxes, then...it won't work. "Just be yourself!" being pernicious dating advice if yourself isn't very dateable.
I never been one to successfully project confidence when I didn't feel I had it. And I am happy that you are able to develop real confidence. One thing to remember is that people are going to test the confident. One very large factor in confidence is the ability to handle failure. Fear of failure is often very effective in killing confidence. Just remember that (some) failures are just stepping stones to success.

A lot of successful people have failed over and over before they have finally broke through.

I'm honestly not the best when it comes to body language and confidence. It is just something I notice with people in relationships and those who don't struggle that much with relationships. Part of it is intentional because I don't "accept" myself as I am. So I intentionally throw on a slightly turn off disposition (distant, somewhat timid) to discourage anything deeper (until I'm done building myself).

And believe me, other people's opinions of me was God to me. I lived my life by other people's opinions of me. But then I realized that (some) people jump to conclusions about me when they first see me, and these conclusions were unconditional (especially when they were negative). I also noticed some flaws in them as well. Then I started caring less and less about the opinions of those around me. Just as long as they don't harass me or take some action against me just because they don't "like me".

And don't get me started on second-guessing. I'm the poster child of second-guesses.

Different women are going to have different turn ons and turn offs with a lot of overlaps so one approach that works with one woman might not be as effective with another. And rejection does sting and chip away at self confidence (which is one of the reasons I recommend backing off a bit after quite a few rejections). The most important thing is to not take relationships without so much weight. Contrary to what certain people might have you believe, you can live without romantic relationships. Lack of romantic relationships does not mean that there is something inherently wrong with you.
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Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
Yes! That has been the case for me more than once. I’ll accuse: “I bet you you say that to alllll the “girls”...
And when I find out I’m right = zero attraction. Even if it could have been genuine, I More than once have found myself in the position of telling someone I don’t want to be a ‘groupie’. It is not their job to make every woman feel beautiful— at least not in my presence. I don’t care how that makes me look, if I don’t like it I don’t have to deal with that, and I don’t.

I may have Even be triggered by that situation of numbers game you posted, because I have felt like it has ruined some great possibilities, their inability to “narrow the field”, if you will.

Does that opinion hold true about online dating behaviors, in terms of numbers of people contacted? Even in my limited forays into trying to date online I still sent many, many feelers out. They were customized and unique to the women I contacted, so no, I didn't say anything that I was also saying to allllll the girls. But, I did send out many overtures, and I knew when I sent them that there was a very, very small chance they any of them would even be responded to at all, much less favorably. True to that, only a handful of the women I texted didn't ignore me outright, and of that handful all of them eventually dropped me.


Still, if I've ever attempted to "play the numbers game" it was there. I didn't work to "narrow my field", I worked to put myself out there and try to expand "my field." Would you consider that behavior to be off-putting online as well? Because if so I don't see how a guy is supposed to get a toehold at all online, unless he happens to look like an underwear model and really can stand back and let women message him.


A guy like me...if I sit back and expect that to happen...well, let's just say I've been waiting a long time for such a thing to happen.
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Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Does that opinion hold true about online dating behaviors, in terms of numbers of people contacted? Even in my limited forays into trying to date online I still sent many, many feelers out. They were customized and unique to the women I contacted, so no, I didn't say anything that I was also saying to allllll the girls. But, I did send out many overtures, and I knew when I sent them that there was a very, very small chance they any of them would even be responded to at all, much less favorably. True to that, only a handful of the women I texted didn't ignore me outright, and of that handful all of them eventually dropped me.


Still, if I've ever attempted to "play the numbers game" it was there. I didn't work to "narrow my field", I worked to put myself out there and try to expand "my field." Would you consider that behavior to be off-putting online as well? Because if so I don't see how a guy is supposed to get a toehold at all online, unless he happens to look like an underwear model and really can stand back and let women message him.


A guy like me...if I sit back and expect that to happen...well, let's just say I've been waiting a long time for such a thing to happen.
The thing with online dating is that from what I hear, women get tons of messages in their inbox. And there is a possibility that yours might get "lost in the shuffle" so to speak. I don't know if there is a way to know if a woman has looked at your message given that I'm not on any dating apps or online dating accounts. Heck, I don't even know how online dating works. I'm so behind.

When it comes to meeting people offline, all I have to do is "sit back and let it happen". But I can see that is not typical for men. In fact, I was getting ready to and expecting to be the one to go around initiating conversation.


Honestly, there are a lot of similarities between you now, and me a few years ago.
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Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
And I don’t find that to be disrespectful versus respectful, I recognize we have two very different attitudes, needs and wants. I picture you as the type who would find it admirable if a man asked your permission to kiss you, whereas just typing: “May I kiss you?” makes me cringe, and throw the whole atmosphere down the toilet for me.

@At Arms Length- These very different responses to your ruminations aren’t contradictions in a way that should make you even more taken aback. They're examples and proof that you’re not gonna be able to ensure a clear path and green light for yourself, just like no one else gets insurance and directions.

Youre going to have to engage social cues to find out what’s best for each individual situation. The only way this is going to happen is if you get the hell out there and try. If you stay locked into your hypothesizing and introspection you’re not going to eventually gain dating insurance.

No one gets a manual!

I would ask before kissing a woman, but not because I'd find it admirable. Indeed, I think it's silly...if I've gotten the wrong idea a simple awkward apology and a hasty "good night" should suffice to put the issue to rest. But I've read too many situations where an assumption was made by the guy and it led to a trespass against the will of the woman. So, I'd find asking if I could kiss her to be necessary in order to make sure that I'm not proceeding against her will. "Enthusiastic affirmative consent." If she hasn't said "Yes"...with no hesitation or trepidation...then the answer should be assumed to be "No."


If I ask such a thing, I might indeed offend her or turn her off with my hesitancy and caution, and might indeed "throw the whole atmosphere down the toilet." But if I don't ask then I may be sexually assaulting her, in her eyes. Between those two, I choose the former.


Re: Get the hell out there and try, If I have the opportunity to ask out someone who's interested, I will take it. But you said it yourself...guys who go around trying desperately to sow seeds of opportunity whether they're on fertile ground or not...not attractive.
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
 
829 posts, read 206,098 times
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Originally Posted by TJenkins602 View Post
When it comes to meeting people offline, all I have to do is "sit back and let it happen".
Ah, so you're the one holding my face cards.
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