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Old Today, 02:11 PM
 
651 posts, read 336,661 times
Reputation: 475

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJenkins602 View Post
It might just be your area because I'm an introvert and I have dealt with way more shady characters than I can count on both hands and feet.

I'm very sought out and all I try to do is go where I need to go, get some work done, and get out.
Its possible. I grew up in a very affluent area of so cal where people are very insular. Probably snobby is a good word. I dont know where you are from. We all probably had a kind of attitude though, like you have to be in our special circle or something.

Not that shady stuff didnt happen within. But there were other ways to handle it you could say? Ratting out the inner circle was frowned upon.

When I speak of Morocco let me just say its not Islamophobic or racist. Its just I wasnt wearing Muslim attire and later found they view that as being available, like a prostitute. Thats why they followed me around. I have very straight hair dyed pitch black then, thats why I tried to pass for Japanese and it did work. When I replied in gibberish they gave up.
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Old Today, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
Reputation: 21768
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Woops. My hyperbole got the best of me. One needn't be a basement dweller to be a creep.

Nope. A creep is in the eye of the beholder.
I am imagining an actual Beholder, like the monster from D&D right now. Just thought I'd share that.

Erm. Well. In this beholder's eye, a "creep" or "creepy" behavior is reserved only for those who push boundaries. It's been my observation/opinion that they do this either a.) because they lack the social skills to sense that a boundary has been expressed and exists, or b.) they sensed the boundary and they have chosen to disregard it.

The first kind I can forgive. I will wonder if I was clear enough in expressing that "Hey, uh, boundary. Right here. You're stepping on it. Please stop." I know enough neurodivergent types, especially spectrum-y folks, who struggle with more subtle boundary stuff...I'll at least try to be plain about it when I think that there's misunderstanding.

The second kind, I do not like one bit. And I think that's why moongirl's statement about saying no the first time and wanting to be asked out more than once, may have struck the odd nerve here and there, is that optimally if someone expresses a boundary, the other person should respect it, and it's like she was saying that men should persist in pushing those boundaries and maybe the no will become a yes.

I think that this notion has been expressed in about a bajillion movies with a romantic side-plot, it's very hero gets the girl stuff, where at first she hates the guy but he just keeps trying, the plucky lad, and of course she falls for his charms by the end. In the real world, that's not usually how it works. It can be an unhappy scenario for both parties. I know that conflict and overcoming a challenge, makes for a good story, but I think it really gave people the wrong ideas and now a lot of folks have paid a price for internalizing that narrative.

(Thank you, moongirl, for clarifying though, that you would be mitigating your refusal with offers to continue talking, and not giving the impression that it was a hard-and-permanent kind of a "no.")
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Old Today, 02:15 PM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
Reputation: 16402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I am imagining an actual Beholder, like the monster from D&D right now. Just thought I'd share that.

Erm. Well. In this beholder's eye, a "creep" or "creepy" behavior is reserved only for those who push boundaries. It's been my observation/opinion that they do this either a.) because they lack the social skills to sense that a boundary has been expressed and exists, or b.) they sensed the boundary and they have chosen to disregard it.

The first kind I can forgive.
In the context of this thread, it is not a matter of forgiving. Forgiving or not forgiving is not at issue. What is at issue is continuing creepy behavior and expecting it to yield different results ... different results than they are experiencing, which is rejection from women.

Quote:
I will wonder if I was clear enough in expressing that "Hey, uh, boundary. Right here. You're stepping on it. Please stop."
We see on here quite clearly the desire to hold to views. This is normal confirmation bias. It is nothing new under the sun.
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Old Today, 02:19 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
Reputation: 5896
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
Its possible. I grew up in a very affluent area of so cal where people are very insular. Probably snobby is a good word. I dont know where you are from. We all probably had a kind of attitude though, like you have to be in our special circle or something.

Not that shady stuff didnt happen within. But there were other ways to handle it you could say? Ratting out the inner circle was frowned upon.

When I speak of Morocco let me just say its not Islamophobic or racist. Its just I wasnt wearing Muslim attire and later found they view that as being available, like a prostitute. Thats why they followed me around. I have very straight hair dyed pitch black then, thats why I tried to pass for Japanese and it did work. When I replied in gibberish they gave up.
I grew up in the Bay Area. Very similar in mindset to your area when it comes to people. One word I often use is cliquish for people who have kind of a closed circle.

The area I live in now is a city just East of Phoenix. There's a lot of "characters" in the city I am in. And they tend to be pretty grabby. Sometimes, I have to change my route to avoid running into one of those characters.

While a lot of them are other men, there are some rather attractive women of the type that I probably would've dated in my 20s. But being in my mid-thirties, my bigger brain has taken over. So that is one reason I'm not in a relationship.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM
 
3,872 posts, read 1,791,545 times
Reputation: 7647
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Woops. My hyperbole got the best of me. One needn't be a basement dweller to be a creep.




Nope. A creep is in the eye of the beholder.
I've been there with my own hyperbole.

I still think the creep definition is loose. I'm good with creepy behavior or even a creepy appearance being subjective. You or I get to decide those things. I personally don't think it's fair for me to label someone a creep though, if I get a creepy vibe but no one else does. I can stay away from that person with a clear conscious, but I don't think I get to tag them.
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Old Today, 02:24 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
Reputation: 5896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I am imagining an actual Beholder, like the monster from D&D right now. Just thought I'd share that.

Erm. Well. In this beholder's eye, a "creep" or "creepy" behavior is reserved only for those who push boundaries. It's been my observation/opinion that they do this either a.) because they lack the social skills to sense that a boundary has been expressed and exists, or b.) they sensed the boundary and they have chosen to disregard it.

The first kind I can forgive. I will wonder if I was clear enough in expressing that "Hey, uh, boundary. Right here. You're stepping on it. Please stop." I know enough neurodivergent types, especially spectrum-y folks, who struggle with more subtle boundary stuff...I'll at least try to be plain about it when I think that there's misunderstanding.

The second kind, I do not like one bit. And I think that's why moongirl's statement about saying no the first time and wanting to be asked out more than once, may have struck the odd nerve here and there, is that optimally if someone expresses a boundary, the other person should respect it, and it's like she was saying that men should persist in pushing those boundaries and maybe the no will become a yes.

I think that this notion has been expressed in about a bajillion movies with a romantic side-plot, it's very hero gets the girl stuff, where at first she hates the guy but he just keeps trying, the plucky lad, and of course she falls for his charms by the end. In the real world, that's not usually how it works. It can be an unhappy scenario for both parties. I know that conflict and overcoming a challenge, makes for a good story, but I think it really gave people the wrong ideas and now a lot of folks have paid a price for internalizing that narrative.

(Thank you, moongirl, for clarifying though, that you would be mitigating your refusal with offers to continue talking, and not giving the impression that it was a hard-and-permanent kind of a "no.")
Admittedly, that did make me a little nervous because I think of the many cases where a no eventually turns into PTSD because someone would not respect it and just kept pushing and even escalating.

Oh, and the romantic trope of hero gets the girl who can't stand him and then reluctantly and rather nonchalantly decides to go with him...don't get me started.

I think those types of rom coms are definitely not sending the best message about how romance works.

Last edited by TJenkins602; Today at 02:42 PM..
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Old Today, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
Reputation: 21768
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
In the context of this thread, it is not a matter of forgiving. Forgiving or not forgiving is not at issue. What is at issue is continuing creepy behavior and expecting it to yield different results ... different results than they are experiencing, which is rejection from women.


We see on here quite clearly the desire to hold to views. This is normal confirmation bias. It is nothing new under the sun.
It does make a difference to me (this beholder, this eye) because if I think that they misunderstood something, and I clarify, and they then respect the boundary that they now understand, then we can go forward and interact.

But if I feel that they are doing the thing of disregarding my boundaries when I have been clear, and OK now I find them creepy because of it...you don't come back from that.

If I were available, I know which of the men I know I would consider dating, and which I would not, and the creepy ones wouldn't be candidates. And most of the women I know, talk about men they find to be creepy, and that opinion has a way of spreading when another woman and another says, "Oh yeah, he did that to me, too!" Even online dating is not a bubble where no one knows anyone else. I've heard groups of single women compare notes on experiences they've had with guys from a particular site.
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Old Today, 02:34 PM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
Reputation: 16402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
It does make a difference to me (this beholder, this eye) because if I think that they misunderstood something, and I clarify, and they then respect the boundary that they now understand, then we can go forward and interact.
Many people don't feel this way. Myself included. I mean, no blood, no foul if you do. If You Don't Understand that asking someone over and over again, or playing a numbers game as if I am just a device is creepy, then it is not that I feel you are morally bad. I Just Don't Want To Date You. (The rhetorical you.)
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Old Today, 02:41 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
Reputation: 5896
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Many people don't feel this way. Myself included. I mean, no blood, no foul if you do. If You Don't Understand that asking someone over and over again, or playing a numbers game as if I am just a device is creepy, then it is not that I feel you are morally bad. I Just Don't Want To Date You. (The rhetorical you.)
I actually see both points.

I can see being forgiving to a person who has unknowingly violated a boundary (because of a lack of social skills or being out of touch or whatever) and continuing the interaction as long as they are respectful moving forward. I can also understand the avoidance of a person who violated the boundaries.
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Old Today, 03:02 PM
Status: "Now I know how Joan of Arc felt ..." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Boulder, CO
516 posts, read 159,900 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I am imagining an actual Beholder, like the monster from D&D right now. Just thought I'd share that.

Erm. Well. In this beholder's eye, ...

Always love when you reference D&D.
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