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Old Today, 03:07 PM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJenkins602 View Post
I actually see both points.

I can see being forgiving to a person who has unknowingly violated a boundary (because of a lack of social skills or being out of touch or whatever) and continuing the interaction as long as they are respectful moving forward. I can also understand the avoidance of a person who violated the boundaries.
Maybe it is my history. But lack of social skills, and utter cluelessness (and IMO basic empathy) seem hand in hand to me. I don't want a project guy. It is not about boundaries. I WANT someone who HAS a clue already. It is not about forgiveness. It is not about moral judgement at all. And thus is dating. Lots of people don't want project dates that need social education.
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Old Today, 03:08 PM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
I've been there with my own hyperbole.

I still think the creep definition is loose. I'm good with creepy behavior or even a creepy appearance being subjective. You or I get to decide those things. I personally don't think it's fair for me to label someone a creep though, if I get a creepy vibe but no one else does. I can stay away from that person with a clear conscious, but I don't think I get to tag them.
I don't know what that means. Label and tag. I can think that those behaviors are creepy. And act accordingly. And dollars gets you donuts other women do as well.
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Old Today, 03:08 PM
 
3,872 posts, read 1,791,545 times
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Originally Posted by ADogNamedSam View Post
Always love when you reference D&D.
As do I, and I have no real idea what she's alluding to, but it works.
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Old Today, 03:16 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Maybe it is my history. But lack of social skills, and utter cluelessness (and IMO basic empathy) seem hand in hand to me. I don't want a project guy. It is not about boundaries. I WANT someone who HAS a clue already. It is not about forgiveness. It is not about moral judgement at all. And thus is dating. Lots of people don't want project dates that need social education.
Believe me, I have a history with those types and my response is no thank you. For one thing, I'm not qualified to take people like that on (they typically have deep seated issues that I am unable to help with).
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Old Today, 03:21 PM
 
652 posts, read 336,661 times
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I am sorry you went through that somebodynew. What it was that happened in your history. You havent elaborated but the impression is it was pretty heavy.
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Old Today, 03:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
I am sorry you went through that somebodynew. What it was that happened in your history. You havent elaborated but the impression is it was pretty heavy.
Nah. Just life. But I have met a great number of men who sound a LOT like some of the the men on here. It aint pretty.
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Old Today, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
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I guess my flexibility is in the fact that I've met a lot of men that I generally liked, and I generally wanted to have them around, I enjoyed their presence in my life...but they did or said something clueless. Usually in one of the big social groups that I am part of. And I would think about it, and decide that they are harmless but it was a sort of gaffe, not made with ill will or bad intent, and I'd talk to them about it and let them know how it came off and why they should try not to do that thing again.

Most of the time, my goodwill also extends to the fact that I don't want to see them struggle, I'd like to see them be accepted and be happy and all. And frankly I've put my own foot into my mouth on more than one occasion in my life, so I cannot judge.

Of course, how they respond is important, if they get defensive then that's not a good look at all. It is just as bad if they are given clear feedback and then proceed to disregard it, and now it's like, "OK I know you know better now. You had your chance."

Also, I'm into the geekier pursuits (obviously, D&D references and all) and so there will be enough guys in those circles who maybe are not quite as socially savvy as some....I cut people slack for what I judge to be innocent mistakes. Though honestly most of them are so paranoid about causing offense or being where they aren't wanted or something, they are more socially timid than anything. And I'm the extrovert who is there to draw them out of their shells, because once they feel comfortable enough, they often have very interesting layers.

I can usually tell when something is, however, nervous behavior or a mistake, versus actual bad mojo in their personality that isn't likely to change. I've definitely met some people who seem sketchy, unethical, in other words, irredeemably "creepy" in unacceptable ways. I'm happy to say that I've learned a thing or two about when to "nope out" on messy, sketchy, or advantage taking persons.
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Old Today, 04:19 PM
 
7,547 posts, read 11,659,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I guess my flexibility is in the fact that I've met a lot of men that I generally liked, and I generally wanted to have them around, I enjoyed their presence in my life...but they did or said something clueless. Usually in one of the big social groups that I am part of. And I would think about it, and decide that they are harmless but it was a sort of gaffe, not made with ill will or bad intent, and I'd talk to them about it and let them know how it came off and why they should try not to do that thing again.

Most of the time, my goodwill also extends to the fact that I don't want to see them struggle, I'd like to see them be accepted and be happy and all. And frankly I've put my own foot into my mouth on more than one occasion in my life, so I cannot judge.

Of course, how they respond is important, if they get defensive then that's not a good look at all. It is just as bad if they are given clear feedback and then proceed to disregard it, and now it's like, "OK I know you know better now. You had your chance."

Also, I'm into the geekier pursuits (obviously, D&D references and all) and so there will be enough guys in those circles who maybe are not quite as socially savvy as some....I cut people slack for what I judge to be innocent mistakes. Though honestly most of them are so paranoid about causing offense or being where they aren't wanted or something, they are more socially timid than anything. And I'm the extrovert who is there to draw them out of their shells, because once they feel comfortable enough, they often have very interesting layers.

I can usually tell when something is, however, nervous behavior or a mistake, versus actual bad mojo in their personality that isn't likely to change. I've definitely met some people who seem sketchy, unethical, in other words, irredeemably "creepy" in unacceptable ways. I'm happy to say that I've learned a thing or two about when to "nope out" on messy, sketchy, or advantage taking persons.
This is the type of mentality I would seek to surround myself with.

I'll also say that what is considered 'creepy' is a function of your age and maturity.

I remember in my 20s, women having conversations with me, or in a group, and labelling friends of mine as creepy, basically to describe guys who were socially a little awkward and may have, in the heat of the moment, come on a little too strong, in trying to socially ingratiate themselves with women or a group of women. But completely harmless. Women actually used to do that, would literally say to me "Joe is creepy" even though Joe was a friend of mine.

But this is 15 years before those women got married and had kids. I do think most of those women would look at those men and their own characterization differently now. Not to say they would date them either, but would likely view them with a softer lens.

When you're pushing 50, and you've seen it all, you can reserve creepy to describe the co-worker who leaves dic-pic polaroids on your passenger side car window.

Also a true story from my life...

I'll also add that I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that more than one woman has labeled me as creepy somewhere along the way.
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Old Today, 04:40 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
This is the type of mentality I would seek to surround myself with.

I'll also say that what is considered 'creepy' is a function of your age and maturity.

I remember in my 20s, women having conversations with me, or in a group, and labelling friends of mine as creepy, basically to describe guys who were socially a little awkward and may have, in the heat of the moment, come on a little too strong, in trying to socially ingratiate themselves with women or a group of women. But completely harmless. Women actually used to do that, would literally say to me "Joe is creepy" even though Joe was a friend of mine.

But this is 15 years before those women got married and had kids. I do think most of those women would look at those men and their own characterization differently now. Not to say they would date them either, but would likely view them with a softer lens.

When you're pushing 50, and you've seen it all, you can reserve creepy to describe the co-worker who leaves dic-pic polaroids on your passenger side car window.

Also a true story from my life...

I'll also add that I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that more than one woman has labeled me as creepy somewhere along the way.
I'm pretty sure quite a few women have given me the label as well. I didn't hear it, but I'm sure somewhere it has happened.
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Old Today, 05:16 PM
 
841 posts, read 208,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
Wanting to be pursued isnt necessarily game playing. She might just want to be sure you are serious about it before accepting a date.

If these women you speak of are highly desirable and attractive women, they probably get asked out all the time. They might initially reject most of those men, but the men who keep pursuing and ask a second or third time are more likely to get a yes.


...

If these are just average women, they might still want some getting to know you time before taking things to a more intimate dating scenario.

I dont know how you know these women or how well you do, but many women have some "stranger danger," being the smaller and weaker ones it can feel very vulnerable to put ourselves into an isolated setting with someone we dont know well. You have said you are very tall, that can add to that.

Ive a feeling they might just need more time to feel safe and comfortable with you before progressing to a date.

Re: Want to be sure I'm serious...Want to be sure I am serious? That doesn't make sense at all. I'm asking her on a date...to me that's a pretty serious thing. To me it's saying "I like you in a way that goes beyond normal socialization and would like to get to know you better in that context, so I am submitting myself to your judgement as to my suitability and worthiness." That may sound heavy, but when you've been locked out of a basic, primal, hard-wired part of the human experience your whole life but see many other people take it almost for granted...not a question of if those people will get that life experience but instead when...I feel pretty heavy about it.


Re: Types of women...A few are what you might describe as "highly desirable and attractive women." Most of them were probably closer to average, but I found them attractive in their own way. Most were around my own age, but some were older and a few were younger...some weren't necessarily cute in the face but I liked their hair, or their sense of humor, or smile, or intelligence...some were average weight, some were plus-sized, and a few may have weighed more than me.


Re: Getting to know me...isn't that what dating is about? I'm not expecting a kiss on the first date, much less sex on the first date. I'm not expecting sex on the 50th date, even. (Though if she didn't want to kiss me by date 50 I'm probably a sucker.) My view is that physical engagement like that would happen it happens. It's not on a timescale, it's not something to force.


Either way, I've tried the "let her get to know me first" thing. I wound up in the friendzone. Very painful. "But everyone's different," yada yada. All I know is...waiting to see if I grew on her over time didn't work, and asking as soon as I knew I was interested didn't work. The common thread: They weren't interested in me. It didn't matter how much time I allowed them to "get to know me."
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