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Old Today, 05:29 PM
 
841 posts, read 208,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
What if she says no because she has another social engagement planned, or some other legitimate reason?
Then she knows my social media or my phone number. She can get in touch with me and let me know that her schedule is cleared, that she'd like to go out with me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
I just like to go at my pace. I can have social anxiety at times so I need to psyche myself before lots of social interaction. I think thats a legitimate reason.
Sure, you can reject me for any reason under the moon, or for no reason at all. That's up to you. Why you reject me is not mine to question; it's only mine to comply with the rejection.



But if you say "No" when you meant "Not right now" or "Not yet" then you've missed your chance with me. (Not that that would be a big loss, most women are typically able to date when they want, if not necessarily who they want...and if I'm who they wanted, they knew my number when the when became right...sometimes as soon as days or weeks after rejecting me.) But even moreso, you've confused me on how I can tell if a woman wants me to ask her out or not...because if you're interested but shoot me down anyways, I'm more likely to disregard similar behavior from other women in future encounters as a false-positive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
If this is a friend of a friend for instance you see at parties. You flirt and chat but she declines going out to dinner with you one on one. But she clearly enjoys your company, keep gettng to know her. Thats not stalking or harassment.
No...it's landing in her friendzone, and I wouldn't do it unless I was genuinely interested in being Friends But No More with her.
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Old Today, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Continental Europe
690 posts, read 116,586 times
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I think on the vast majority of occasions, no means no, and yes means yes.

And occasionally people say yes when they mean no and no when they mean yes, but you don't have to worry about those times because that's on them, and it'll go nowhere anyway.
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Old Today, 05:43 PM
 
652 posts, read 336,661 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Then she knows my social media or my phone number. She can get in touch with me and let me know that her schedule is cleared, that she'd like to go out with me.




Sure, you can reject me for any reason under the moon, or for no reason at all. That's up to you. Why you reject me is not mine to question; it's only mine to comply with the rejection.



But if you say "No" when you meant "Not right now" or "Not yet" then you've missed your chance with me. (Not that that would be a big loss, most women are typically able to date when they want, if not necessarily who they want...and if I'm who they wanted, they knew my number when the when became right...sometimes as soon as days or weeks after rejecting me.) But even moreso, you've confused me on how I can tell if a woman wants me to ask her out or not...because if you're interested but shoot me down anyways, I'm more likely to disregard similar behavior from other women in future encounters as a false-positive.



No...it's landing in her friendzone, and I wouldn't do it unless I was genuinely interested in being Friends But No More with her.
Its your own decision how you go about dating.

I think Sonic has made some great points.

I think the bottom line is to view things as nuanced. Look at context. Im at a party flirting with you, you ask me out...yo how about dinner tomorrow? I say, cant sorry, phd dissertation hearing monday morning.

Man up, if you like her, ask again.

Maybe these women are weeding you out for a good reason. Could be you havent found the one to motivate you yet.
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Old Today, 05:44 PM
 
841 posts, read 208,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I never said anything about basement dweller. I said "creep". Many guys think they are just peachy when they are, in fact, creeps.

Yup. They are creeps.
And that's what scares me and worries me. So many wrong guesses on my part. I don't think I'm a creep, but I don't get to define that, the people I interact with do. And as you can see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
And most of the women I know, talk about men they find to be creepy, and that opinion has a way of spreading when another woman and another says, "Oh yeah, he did that to me, too!" Even online dating is not a bubble where no one knows anyone else. I've heard groups of single women compare notes on experiences they've had with guys from a particular site.
...it can spread, and the moniker of "creep" gets harder and harder to grow beyond as social media (and, rarely, punitive intrusive activism therein upon a despised target..."This guy's a creep, he kissed me without permission while I was drunk at a party, we need to shut him down and get him fired!") becomes more and more commonplace.

Which is why, when I kept getting the same results over and over (rejected) I figured it was time to STOP and be sure from now on. Clearly what I was doing wasn't working, and to keep trying again and again would mean I'm in denial of that fact. If I'm in denial of that fact, then perhaps I'm similarly in denial of the fact that I may be a creep after all despite not believe I am myself, as you note:

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
What is at issue is continuing creepy behavior and expecting it to yield different results ... different results than they are experiencing, which is rejection from women.
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Old Today, 05:47 PM
 
841 posts, read 208,593 times
Reputation: 1078
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Maybe it is my history. But lack of social skills, and utter cluelessness (and IMO basic empathy) seem hand in hand to me. I don't want a project guy. It is not about boundaries. I WANT someone who HAS a clue already. It is not about forgiveness. It is not about moral judgement at all. And thus is dating. Lots of people don't want project dates that need social education.
Sigh.
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Old Today, 06:14 PM
 
841 posts, read 208,593 times
Reputation: 1078
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
Its your own decision how you go about dating.

I think Sonic has made some great points.

I think the bottom line is to view things as nuanced. Look at context. Im at a party flirting with you, you ask me out...yo how about dinner tomorrow? I say, cant sorry, phd dissertation hearing monday morning.

In the case where there's a specific, scheduled, unavoidable reason why a woman wouldn't go out with me, I have in the past asked twice. For instance...The one who flaked out at the last minute blamed work...okay, that's fine. (Hell, it's fine if she'd stood me up completely with no warning...it's a crappy thing to do to someone, but if she didn't want to go out with me, I'm certainly not in favor of forcing her to sit through a date. I want to be with someone who enjoys my company...which on the lone date I had last year, the dis-interested ghoster, she clearly didn't enjoy my company). She didn't respond back afterwards offering to reschedule, which was kind of telling...but she later started texting me friendly little things, so I thought...sure. Let's give it one more shot. So I offered her an entire weekend window...Friday night through Sunday night...about a month ahead of time. "Sorry, I'm going to be too busy to meet you for a cup of coffee for that entire weekend a month from now." (Paraphrasing, but you get the gist.) This time without anything specific about why her schedule wouldn't work.


Another once told me that she was too busy for anything until a certain date about a month from the time I asked her. I thought...okay, that's reasonable. And after that day came and went, I asked her again...but she was also "too busy" for the next two months to go out.


So, with both of those, I got the drift. In other words: In the times that I've gotten a "reason" for why a woman can't go out at a certain point, additional probing made it clear that while the reasons and rationale might change, the root answer didn't. As someone pointed out..."If they like you, they're going to figure out how to make time for you."



Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
Maybe these women are weeding you out for a good reason. Could be you havent found the one to motivate you yet.
Motivate me. If you had any idea the lengths I've gone to in order to try to play this game, what it takes for me to summon every bit of courage and confidence I have just to ask a woman out and ignore the voice in the back of my head examining the entire history of my life to this point and saying They've never liked you before, what makes you think this time is different, and what it does to me on the inside to hear, once again, "No, I'm flattered, but no thanks," how sad it makes me to look around and see...frankly, most of the rest of the population of the planet getting to have experiences that I don't have access to...I highly doubt you would be questioning my motivation.


P.S.- Women do have a good reason for weeding me out. They don't like me.
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Old Today, 06:23 PM
 
841 posts, read 208,593 times
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And to add...if by "The one to motivate you yet"...meaning I haven't fallen hard enough for a girl in order to chase her hard...


Why yes, I have. And it landed me in the friendzone. From which I had a nervous breakdown when she got tired of my orbiting and ran me off. I used to fall hard for girls and then ask them out. I used to wait years hoping they'd give me a chance.


Never again. From recovering from that experience I learned how to put up my walls and stamp out feelings of attraction. Control how much attraction I allow to grow in myself. That's a skill I use...liberally. I'm never again going to fall for someone so hard that I'll wait years for a chance for her, or turn myself into a love-sick fool over her if she's not reciprocating interest.
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Old Today, 06:27 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
And to add...if by "The one to motivate you yet"...meaning I haven't fallen hard enough for a girl in order to chase her hard...


Why yes, I have. And it landed me in the friendzone. From which I had a nervous breakdown when she got tired of my orbiting and ran me off. I used to fall hard for girls and then ask them out. I used to wait years hoping they'd give me a chance.


Never again. From recovering from that experience I learned how to put up my walls and stamp out feelings of attraction. Control how much attraction I allow to grow in myself. That's a skill I use...liberally. I'm never again going to fall for someone so hard that I'll wait years for a chance for her, or turn myself into a love-sick fool over her if she's not reciprocating interest.
This reminds me of a friend I used to have... In fact the last half of this post reminds me of me in a way.
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Old Today, 06:29 PM
 
652 posts, read 336,661 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
In the case where there's a specific, scheduled, unavoidable reason why a woman wouldn't go out with me, I have in the past asked twice. For instance...The one who flaked out at the last minute blamed work...okay, that's fine. (Hell, it's fine if she'd stood me up completely with no warning...it's a crappy thing to do to someone, but if she didn't want to go out with me, I'm certainly not in favor of forcing her to sit through a date. I want to be with someone who enjoys my company...which on the lone date I had last year, the dis-interested ghoster, she clearly didn't enjoy my company). She didn't respond back afterwards offering to reschedule, which was kind of telling...but she later started texting me friendly little things, so I thought...sure. Let's give it one more shot. So I offered her an entire weekend window...Friday night through Sunday night...about a month ahead of time. "Sorry, I'm going to be too busy to meet you for a cup of coffee for that entire weekend a month from now." (Paraphrasing, but you get the gist.) This time without anything specific about why her schedule wouldn't work.


Another once told me that she was too busy for anything until a certain date about a month from the time I asked her. I thought...okay, that's reasonable. And after that day came and went, I asked her again...but she was also "too busy" for the next two months to go out.


So, with both of those, I got the drift. In other words: In the times that I've gotten a "reason" for why a woman can't go out at a certain point, additional probing made it clear that while the reasons and rationale might change, the root answer didn't. As someone pointed out..."If they like you, they're going to figure out how to make time for you."




Motivate me. If you had any idea the lengths I've gone to in order to try to play this game, what it takes for me to summon every bit of courage and confidence I have just to ask a woman out and ignore the voice in the back of my head examining the entire history of my life to this point and saying They've never liked you before, what makes you think this time is different, and what it does to me on the inside to hear, once again, "No, I'm flattered, but no thanks," how sad it makes me to look around and see...frankly, most of the rest of the population of the planet getting to have experiences that I don't have access to...I highly doubt you would be questioning my motivation.


P.S.- Women do have a good reason for weeding me out. They don't like me.
This sounds like self pity. I realize women are more sought out. I consider myself pretty average yet I could be out every night with a different guy if I wanted. As a man you did draw the short stick, just due to being a man.

Dont take to heart all the creep talk itt though. Even though I have a stalker in my experience that is a rare phenomenon. This is genuinely a disturbed guy. It took many months of deranged behavior before I went to authorities.

A few weeks of flirtatious behavior wont get you arrested for stalking.

If a girl inspires you to pursue then pursue her. As I said thats how my parents got together. You and my father might have a lot in common, but she inspired him.

Dont get too hung up on legal stuff. I dont think you are the type to enter stalker territory.
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Old Today, 06:43 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 6,094,099 times
Reputation: 5896
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
And to add...if by "The one to motivate you yet"...meaning I haven't fallen hard enough for a girl in order to chase her hard...


Why yes, I have. And it landed me in the friendzone. From which I had a nervous breakdown when she got tired of my orbiting and ran me off. I used to fall hard for girls and then ask them out. I used to wait years hoping they'd give me a chance.


Never again. From recovering from that experience I learned how to put up my walls and stamp out feelings of attraction. Control how much attraction I allow to grow in myself. That's a skill I use...liberally. I'm never again going to fall for someone so hard that I'll wait years for a chance for her, or turn myself into a love-sick fool over her if she's not reciprocating interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
This sounds like self pity. I realize women are more sought out. I consider myself pretty average yet I could be out every night with a different guy if I wanted. As a man you did draw the short stick, just due to being a man.

Dont take to heart all the creep talk itt though. Even though I have a stalker in my experience that is a rare phenomenon. This is genuinely a disturbed guy. It took many months of deranged behavior before I went to authorities.

A few weeks of flirtatious behavior wont get you arrested for stalking.

If a girl inspires you to pursue then pursue her. As I said thats how my parents got together. You and my father might have a lot in common, but she inspired him.

Dont get too hung up on legal stuff. I dont think you are the type to enter stalker territory.
Do what you feel is right. In the end, each person is different.

I personally wouldn't pursue after she says no. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. For one thing, I see rejection as not a match. If she says no, it basically means that we are going in different directions in life. There are billions of people on the planet, who is she that I need to have her, and who am I that she should be with me? That's the way I see it.
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