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Old Today, 12:59 AM
 
496 posts, read 341,790 times
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No. If you're fat and not rich, it doesn't matter what you do or how or happy with yourself you are . You won't find anyone who will look past your looks.
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Old Today, 01:05 AM
 
8,328 posts, read 6,098,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg78 View Post
Itís not hostile thatís not how itís meant to be. how about I use a better word like proactive

Your average dude is gonna get rejected by many women on his level because she has many more options then him so heís gonna have to go through a lot of rejections just to get someone in his league

Sitting back and waiting is not the way to go. Keep approaching women till one responds positively.

Woman donít understand this method because they easily have options/ dates even if theyíre not beauty queens. They really canít emphatize what a struggling guy goes through in terms of having zero options for years.
Yes!!! That's a much better word.
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Old Today, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,135 posts, read 7,442,854 times
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With a lot of this, I'm just thinking, "OK how does this look?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
Its your own decision how you go about dating.

I think Sonic has made some great points.

I think the bottom line is to view things as nuanced. Look at context. Im at a party flirting with you, you ask me out...yo how about dinner tomorrow? I say, cant sorry, phd dissertation hearing monday morning.

Man up, if you like her, ask again.

Maybe these women are weeding you out for a good reason. Could be you havent found the one to motivate you yet.
So in the scenario where the specific offer was declined due to a completely reasonable prior engagement, my opinion is that rather than dropping the connection and walking away, a good move would be to say, "Oh, that's cool" (maybe get her to talk a bit more about the dissertation or whatever thing if she wants to) and then "Well I'd still really like to get together sometime, if you're interested. Would you like to swap phone numbers so we can compare notes on our schedules this week, see if we've got any free time that lines up?" And then text later and say, "So I'm free on Thursday and Saturday this week, and Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday next week. How's your calendar looking?"

I have to do this just to get together with established friends, I consider it perfectly reasonable that people are busy. I don't consider it a personal rejection unless we have failed to connect for 2-3 weeks, or 2-3 attempts were cancelled. That is, if I'm interested in them enough to be wanting to make an effort. One thing I won't tolerate though, is outright flakiness, like if I go somewhere to meet someone and they are not there and I wait 15 minutes before finally texting them and I get "Oh, I forgot, can we reschedule for another time? Sorry!" Nope. No we cannot. THAT is an unacceptable waste of my time. (I had a friend do this. We're still friends, but I won't make plans to meet with her one-on-one ever again, I won't go out of my way for her.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg78 View Post
It’s not hostile that’s not how it’s meant to be. how about I use a better word like proactive.

Your average dude is gonna get rejected by many women on his level because she has many more options then him so he’s gonna have to go through a lot of rejections just to get someone in his league

Sitting back and waiting is not the way to go. Keep approaching women till one responds positively.

Woman don’t understand this method because they easily have options/ dates even if they’re not beauty queens. They really can’t emphatize what a struggling guy goes through in terms of having zero options for years.
How does this look?

What At Arms Length is talking about with getting better at socializing, just making that initial connection with a higher number of women who COULD be candidates...that's a great place to start in my opinion. He may need to take a next step at some point of working out the best way to indicate dating interest without coming off as threatening or pushy (which is a thing I sympathize with, when it comes to women I've wanted to date, I struggle with it, too.)

What this should NOT look like in terms of "aggressive" is whipping out your...sexual agenda...and chasing an uninterested woman down the street with it. Persistent in terms of talking to many women? Yes, good. Persistent in terms of continuing pursuit of one woman who has said she isn't interested...no. In the aforementioned example, the dissertation convo, when you ask if she is available this week or next week and her schedule is just plain booked solid...OK. She is likely a no. Move along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
It's hard to describe. I've known men like this, and all that comes across is their agenda - to get a girl, they don't care who she is, they just want one, any will do. They try all sorts of tricks. They tend to gain a reputation.

I mean, it can be flattering to some people, or appealing maybe if they just want sex.

Obviously as a woman, I've never asked a woman out nor do I understand how attraction works for men. We women might be more selective in that sense. I think the best thing to do is experiment and see what works for you. I can only tell you how things seem from my personal perspective.

I don't think you need to worry too much about being threatening or disrespectful. You seem very in tune with and aware of other peoples' feelings & needs. And for that reason I doubt you would come off as a player if you did ask loads of women out.
As a bi woman, I have. And it is comparatively a complete pain in the arse. Which is why I sympathize a lot with men, and why most of my partners have been male despite me having crushes on women more or less constantly. Men make it so much easier than women do. Even a woman who has shown a lot of very obvious interest in me...I still don't feel sure that she'd actually want to have sex or any sort of a relationship with me. I feel like she is just playing a game, honestly, and it feels like too much hassle to even engage too deeply with it. So I'm like, "Well we are at least friends and that's cool I guess. I have no idea if anything else is even possible there, so I'm just not gonna worry about it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
And maybe...all along...it was all in my head. Or mostly in my head. A product of beating myself up...a favorite past-time, until recently. More recent interactions with people show that I seem to be integrating socially pretty well. I have the odd glitch in the Matrix from time to time and freeze in panic not knowing what to do or say next...so usually it's "Uh, gotta run, see you later"...but generally I can hold a conversation with just about anyone. I can start a conversation with just about anyone. That's major improvement. My next task of growth is conquering my fear of talking to people on the phone. (Curiously that fear is even stronger than that of talking to people face-to-face...dunno why). My new job requires it. But so far, I'm doing better.


But...as successful as I've been socially, and that lending credence to the possibility that, all along, I have been too hard on myself for not being socially perfect, and withdrew from people for nothing...I did not get the same validation from trying to date. Leading me to think...maybe my ineptitude and inability with that part of the human social experience wasn't all in my head. Put work into social skills = Better at social skills = Successful in social situations = People would have liked me in social situations all along?. Whereas, Put work into romantic skills = Get better at romantic skills??? != More successful in romantic situations = ...So women really haven't been interested in me all this time.


That's the way my logic-brain is seeing the situation.
And this, among other reasons, is why I wish I could interact with you in person. Because... Well, you ever wish that you could get an undertaking from someone to spend some time with you and then share their unedited narrative in their head about you, in an honest way? Like seriously give me a window into other people's perceptions, because it drives me nuts I can't tell how other people SEE me. I'm trying, but if there's something wrong, it sure would be nice to know what it is. Whether it is fixable or not. Right? That's what I wish I could offer. Honest feedback. An honest read on people. The world can be too full of B-S-ers in my opinion, who do nothing to help us grow.

Though as you know, and as you've said...you will be geographically challenged for a while, as you sort out other things. But that isn't forever. Well read, smart, introspective dude like you...working on your social skills and willing to step outside of your comfort zone...only a matter of time, IMO, once you go to where the people are. Because if there are other major issues holding you back, I could not say without meeting you what those might be.
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Old Today, 09:02 AM
 
7,552 posts, read 11,662,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg78 View Post
Which is why I tell dudes to be aggressive and hit on as many woman as possible to increase their odds. Woman have a lot more choices then men so sitting back and waiting for lightning to strike and your soulmate to appear in front of you isn’t a smart move.

Men must be aggressive and if woman don’t like it because it doesn’t make them feel special too bad.
On the subject of the numbers game...

It's a terrible strategy. However...

Men are 'relegated to considering' as many women as possible, and that is partly women's fault.

I remember when I was younger, and there'd be a woman in my social circle which at that time was large. She'd mention something to me like, she likes jazz and craft beer, which I happen to love. So, I'd call her up and ask her if she wanted to go to an event. I wasn't necessarily interested and I wasn't necessarily not interested.

The typical response was somewhere between not sure and maybe-ish and sometimes accepting and the cancelling. Still to this day in 2019, when a man and a woman are together alone in a place, most people feel like it's a 'date'. That's silly. Just go.

Men and women should just be hanging out all of the time and feeling out what they like about people. But because women typically weed out who they will even 'hang out with' one on one, guys are relegated to hitting on women in numbers just to get those one on one dates.

It shouldn't be that way. Doesn't help that young men are horny bastards whose view of a woman's compatibility is often clouded by how attractive she is.

On the subject of women having more choices, it doesn't matter. There's only so many awesome looking, and super smart and witty guys around (if that's the perspective you want to use). If an average woman ends up with a guy who is much smarter and exciting than she is ... then he won't be happy and that relationship will suck. If women have an unrealistic view of their core qualities, then it's going to suck for them.

Both genders have to be a lot smarter about how they handle dating when they are younger.
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Old Today, 09:16 AM
 
17 posts, read 1,071 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
With a lot of this, I'm just thinking, "OK how does this look?"







How does this look?

What At Arms Length is talking about with getting better at socializing, just making that initial connection with a higher number of women who COULD be candidates...that's a great place to start in my opinion. He may need to take a next step at some point of working out the best way to indicate dating interest without coming off as threatening or pushy (which is a thing I sympathize with, when it comes to women I've wanted to date, I struggle with it, too.)

What this should NOT look like in terms of "aggressive" is whipping out your...sexual agenda...and chasing an uninterested woman down the street with it. Persistent in terms of talking to many women? Yes, good. Persistent in terms of continuing pursuit of one woman who has said she isn't interested...no. In the aforementioned example, the dissertation convo, when you ask if she is available this week or next week and her schedule is just plain booked solid...OK. She is likely a no. Move along.

."



if be.
Iím not telling him to continue to pursue those uninterested Iím telling him to pursue as many women as possible. The only time a no could turn into a yes is a legit friendship where you spend time with someone long enough and they or you see them In a different light eventually but a stranger no way.
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Old Today, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,135 posts, read 7,442,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
On the subject of the numbers game...

It's a terrible strategy. However...

Men are 'relegated to considering' as many women as possible, and that is partly women's fault.

I remember when I was younger, and there'd be a woman in my social circle which at that time was large. She'd mention something to me like, she likes jazz and craft beer, which I happen to love. So, I'd call her up and ask her if she wanted to go to an event. I wasn't necessarily interested and I wasn't necessarily not interested.

The typical response was somewhere between not sure and maybe-ish and sometimes accepting and the cancelling. Still to this day in 2019, when a man and a woman are together alone in a place, most people feel like it's a 'date'. That's silly. Just go.

Men and women should just be hanging out all of the time and feeling out what they like about people. But because women typically weed out who they will even 'hang out with' one on one, guys are relegated to hitting on women in numbers just to get those one on one dates.

It shouldn't be that way. Doesn't help that young men are horny bastards whose view of a woman's compatibility is often clouded by how attractive she is.

On the subject of women having more choices, it doesn't matter. There's only so many awesome looking, and super smart and witty guys around (if that's the perspective you want to use). If an average woman ends up with a guy who is much smarter and exciting than she is ... then he won't be happy and that relationship will suck. If women have an unrealistic view of their core qualities, then it's going to suck for them.

Both genders have to be a lot smarter about how they handle dating when they are younger.
I don't think that the problem is that women are too selective about who we will hang out with one-on-one...necessarily. You cannot be unaware, that in a woman's world, if we end up in a private space with just ourself and a male, we KNOW he might see that as opportunity, invitation, and consent. And if we are unwilling, and wind up being assaulted, then no one will believe it because we "let it happen" by being alone with him. That is a fact of life for a female. I will not be ALONE in private with a straight male unless I either know and trust him very well (like, known him for years) or unless I am willing to have sex. And if a man I'm "hanging out" with who could be a possible dating/sex/romance candidate asks me to go to his home or to go to my home or to be essentially anywhere alone together in private, I hear "I want to have sex with you right now."

Unless women start getting taken seriously when they report rape, this is going to be more or less the way it is, at least for smart, sensible, careful women.

Now "hanging out" socially, having conversations, or going places in public together? Yeah. Well that is all well and good. But what if a woman is an introvert? Then there has to be something to motivate the individual to leave the house and socialize...and "because men need a chance to get to date me, they are lonely and need a woman" is not very motivating to your average gal.
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Old Today, 09:21 AM
 
17 posts, read 1,071 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
On the subject of the numbers game...

It's a terrible strategy. However...

Men are 'relegated to considering' as many women as possible, and that is partly women's fault.

I remember when I was younger, and there'd be a woman in my social circle which at that time was large. She'd mention something to me like, she likes jazz and craft beer, which I happen to love. So, I'd call her up and ask her if she wanted to go to an event. I wasn't necessarily interested and I wasn't necessarily not interested.

The typical response was somewhere between not sure and maybe-ish and sometimes accepting and the cancelling. Still to this day in 2019, when a man and a woman are together alone in a place, most people feel like it's a 'date'. That's silly. Just go.

Men and women should just be hanging out all of the time and feeling out what they like about people. But because women typically weed out who they will even 'hang out with' one on one, guys are relegated to hitting on women in numbers just to get those one on one dates.

It shouldn't be that way. Doesn't help that young men are horny bastards whose view of a woman's compatibility is often clouded by how attractive she is.

On the subject of women having more choices, it doesn't matter. There's only so many awesome looking, and super smart and witty guys around (if that's the perspective you want to use). If an average woman ends up with a guy who is much smarter and exciting than she is ... then he won't be happy and that relationship will suck. If women have an unrealistic view of their core qualities, then it's going to suck for them.

Both genders have to be a lot smarter about how they handle dating when they are younger.
That’s my point a guy is gonna have to do cartwheels to convince someone on his level he’s worthy because of the options disparity. So just approach as many woman as possible because the chances the average woman is gonna be into you even if you get to know her and thinking you two clicked is slim to none because a better option in her mind can be waiting on a dating app or street.

Ive been told I’m attractive and never had trouble with woman and I know this won’t sit well with some but I have learned to go after ladies not all that attractive that people say I’m much better looking then because they’re grateful to be with me and make things easy for me.

Ladies around my league or higher I had to put in a crazy amount of work just to get their attention
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Old Today, 09:32 AM
 
7,552 posts, read 11,662,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Then there has to be something to motivate the individual to leave the house and socialize...and "because men need a chance to get to date me, they are lonely and need a woman" is not very motivating to your average gal.
Of course, I'm talking about hanging out in public. A jazz bar in NYC, Philly, wherever.

Maybe the problem is that women look at it that way. I never looked at it is me being lonely or wanting sex. I looked at it as ... the more women I meet, the more chances I have to come up with the closest match.

For every man who is socially retarded, there's a woman who is socially retarded. And they are the best match. It doesn't matter how many dates women get with smarter, smoother men, because at the end of the day, that man only gets one woman.
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Old Today, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,135 posts, read 7,442,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Of course, I'm talking about hanging out in public. A jazz bar in NYC, Philly, wherever.

Maybe the problem is that women look at it that way. I never looked at it is me being lonely or wanting sex. I looked at it as ... the more women I meet, the more chances I have to come up with the closest match.

For every man who is socially retarded, there's a woman who is socially retarded. And they are the best match. It doesn't matter how many dates women get with smarter, smoother men, because at the end of the day, that man only gets one woman.
The man only gets one woman. The woman only gets one man. Usually. I mean that's how most people do it and I don't figure that's gonna change.

Just thinking about this though...

Take one woman who is an introvert. She is shy, socially anxious, and would rather not go out among people.

Take one man who is an introvert. He is shy, socially anxious, and would rather not go out among people.

Both of them are sitting in their homes playing video games.

Are both of them complaining about not having a mate?

If either of them did, people would tell them to get out and meet people. This is 100% definitely the advice that HE is going to get, when he complains about not having a woman in his life. He will be told all of the things he should do, to find, approach, and talk to women, all the work he must do on himself to improve the product and placement thereof. Will she be told these things? If not...why not? Is it truly that women are the selective commodity with all of the competing men lined up? Not all women will have that experience. Most of us, in fact, won't. I may not be a supermodel but I'm hardly hideous (pics in my profile, anyone can judge, I don't care) but I have not had the life experience that I get a bajillion messages and friend requests or that men come a-running every time I leave the house.

Granted, I do know from being bi, as I've said before, that men do make it far easier to get something going, than women do. Women can be subtle and confusing, and I'm "unusual" I guess in that I am a straight shooter. I've never liked games of hard-to-get, coy, making anyone jump through hoops or chase me, or whatever it is some women get up to. But to say that I, a woman, have never had to make an effort, is nonsense. It's simply not true. I've pursued men before, and I've been rejected before.

But back to the point, go back and read your post. Why, if you are the introvert guy, do you need to go to the jazz bar? Because you want to meet a woman, have sex, have a relationship, etc.

Why does the introverted woman need to put down the game controller and go to the jazz bar?

Is she similarly motivated?

Why or why not?

You answered with, "Because I need to meet lots of women so I'll have a shot of getting one." Which circles right back to "women should do this because I need..." OK but what woman is sitting at home thinking about what some random guy she's never met might need? ...? What is HER motivation to get out to that jazz bar and increase YOUR odds?
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Old Today, 10:48 AM
 
12,814 posts, read 10,058,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg78 View Post
Thatís my point a guy is gonna have to do cartwheels to convince someone on his level heís worthy because of the options disparity.
Here is the thing. You really don't. In fact, when you do, you come down quite a few "levels".
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