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Ah OK. I hadn't given too much thought to the challenges of dating women specifically. I assumed it would be much easier than dating men for some reason.
I found it so. I did not find the approach thing the same as Sonic.
Never assume the word is similar to your small group of friends. Big mistake.
Lol. I admit I thought about dating women, after my last relationship broke up and he was quite abusive (he moved into a house share with a men's rights activist several months before we broke up, and got on board with that whole philosophy... very toxic and sexist), so that experience really put me off men for a while. But sadly I couldn't muster up enough physical attraction towards women. Wish I could though.
Like even though I don't get as much male attention as some of the women I know, or as much as some men think that all women ("average" women) do...I still had a hard time being single. Not because being single sucked, but because it was super challenging to stay that way for very long, plenty of men made it very clear they wanted to be with me. Finding someone to settle down with was not a challenge. Not ever. Avoiding that, if anything, was the challenge. Avoiding settling in with the WRONG person, was a challenge. Not many men will treat me the way I want to be treated. Fortunately I found one, but if I'd committed to the first guy who wanted a relationship with me, I would have been miserable in a failed relationship and I might not have met the guy who is pretty much perfect for me, or as close as anyone can be.
If 10 (random number) men are interested in being in a relationship with you and 20 are interested in your friend that is even hotter than you, then that means that 30 men are going after 2 women.
And that means that either...
1) 28 women are getting no attention
or
2) that those men are going after multiple women and that 'numbers game' that men speak of is basically what's being used
If 10 (random number) men are interested in being in a relationship with you and 20 are interested in your friend that is even hotter than you, then that means that 30 men are going after 2 women.
And that means that either...
1) 28 women are getting no attention
or
2) that those men are going after multiple women and that 'numbers game' that men speak of is basically what's being used
I consider "numbers game" the more likely scenario, from what men say--but every one of those men will rule out some few of the women, too.
But the chaos of it being that in that group, there will be some number of people that any given individual just won't find attractive (not just based on looks, but whatever criteria are meaningful to them.)
Which means that as it shakes out, if numbers are more or less even, then some people will pair off and partner up...some will settle but not be happy (relationships that don't last) and some will wind up going home alone. Of those who go home alone, I find that the women will take the position that they are waiting for the right match and have no obligation to settle, they may lament the lack of acceptable options, but they recognize that they are making the best choice for themselves, to be alone rather than with someone they don't want. The men will construct elaborate social theories on why it isn't fair and the game is rigged and they can't get anywhere in it. I guess. If one points out to them that they could have gone home with Helga in the corner or whatever, they'd be like, "I can't help it, who I'm attracted to, it's NATURE, so no that wasn't an option!" Zero acknowledgement that they had a threshold somewhere, and they made a choice. Just like everyone does.
Oh and besides, in response to your earlier comment, I've been noticing more and more women are becoming not-so-interested in even having kids at all. And vocally so. Which, in conjunction with possibly having their own good career and no financial dependence, means they're even less likely to put up with anything unpleasant in a man who wants a relationship with them. A lot of guys think that means women are only choosing the most rich or good looking men, but I am not seeing that...I'm seeing women try to be slower to commit and more selective about behavior and life habits. But that could just be some bias on account of my own age, maturation, and people I spend time with. Women, I think, feel more empowered but also the burden of a lot more responsibility, to take ownership of our lives and whether they turn out happy or not.
I always thought that dating women would be easier because my female friends are so pleasant and easy to get along with.
As to this... My female friends are pleasant and easy to get along with too, at the friend level.
But I've got a really low tolerance for BS in my household. Drama, emotional explosions, flaky behavior and the like. There is one woman, I love her but she runs hot and cold on people and has problems I don't want to take on...another one I am very fond of is bipolar and alcoholic...another that my boyfriend likes and had hoped I might develop something with, is just too damn young and she's busy starting her own business and she doesn't respond to attempts to communicate. Like there is always...something. Something discouraging.
And then there is the flirtation stage of things.
Me with a woman: "So I really enjoyed spending time with you Saturday. And so you know, I would be down for dating, or casual fun, or whatever...though if you want to keep things at a friend place, I am cool with that, too, since that's the most important part of this to me. Just saying though, I'm open to further ideas if you are."
(This, after she told me she had a crush on me, wrote a poem about me, played several sexy songs for me to hear when we drove somewhere together, has insisted on buying me meals and gifts, and so on...)
Her response? A cutesy playful face and a weird mewing noise.
...
Me with a man: "So I really enjoyed spending time with you Saturday. And so you know, I would be down for dating, or casual fun, or whatever...though if you want to keep things at a friend place, I am cool with that, too, since that's the most important part of this to me. Just saying though, I'm open to further ideas if you are."
(Assuming he is interested, going by having done things like what the woman in the above example did.)
Him: *grin* "I was hoping you'd say that. I'm free Tuesday night, want to come over to my place or shall we go to yours?"
Like guys have a way of, when given a green light, being like "HELL YEAH LET'S DO THIS." Women? We could circle each other hinting and repeating, "So you like me, but do you LIKE ME, like me?" some fifty odd times until we get bored and drift in opposite directions, or so it seems. I never seem to get anywhere, trying to get any kind of clear communication about what a woman wants, even if she seems to be giving every sign of wanting...something.
So yeah. I can sympathize with the plight of men who get a little lost and confused in it all.
As to this... My female friends are pleasant and easy to get along with too, at the friend level.
But I've got a really low tolerance for BS in my household. Drama, emotional explosions, flaky behavior and the like. There is one woman, I love her but she runs hot and cold on people and has problems I don't want to take on...another one I am very fond of is bipolar and alcoholic...another that my boyfriend likes and had hoped I might develop something with, is just too damn young and she's busy starting her own business and she doesn't respond to attempts to communicate. Like there is always...something. Something discouraging.
And then there is the flirtation stage of things.
Me with a woman: "So I really enjoyed spending time with you Saturday. And so you know, I would be down for dating, or casual fun, or whatever...though if you want to keep things at a friend place, I am cool with that, too, since that's the most important part of this to me. Just saying though, I'm open to further ideas if you are."
(This, after she told me she had a crush on me, wrote a poem about me, played several sexy songs for me to hear when we drove somewhere together, has insisted on buying me meals and gifts, and so on...)
Her response? A cutesy playful face and a weird mewing noise.
...
Me with a man: "So I really enjoyed spending time with you Saturday. And so you know, I would be down for dating, or casual fun, or whatever...though if you want to keep things at a friend place, I am cool with that, too, since that's the most important part of this to me. Just saying though, I'm open to further ideas if you are."
(Assuming he is interested, going by having done things like what the woman in the above example did.)
Him: *grin* "I was hoping you'd say that. I'm free Tuesday night, want to come over to my place or shall we go to yours?"
Like guys have a way of, when given a green light, being like "HELL YEAH LET'S DO THIS." Women? We could circle each other hinting and repeating, "So you like me, but do you LIKE ME, like me?" some fifty odd times until we get bored and drift in opposite directions, or so it seems. I never seem to get anywhere, trying to get any kind of clear communication about what a woman wants, even if she seems to be giving every sign of wanting...something.
So yeah. I can sympathize with the plight of men who get a little lost and confused in it all.
I do. I just don't like coy game stuff. I want clear statements of consent, y'know, like the ones I'm willing to give to the men and women that I'm interested in. Not a face and a noise. I have no idea what and "mew!" means. And just because I like women, doesn't mean I want to butch up and act like a man. But it sure seems like we're both waiting for SOMEBODY to.
Well then heck there was the time I had a date set with an older, more masculine woman (I'm actually pan, so a genderfluid person is still of interest) and she freaking forgot and stood me up.
You seem to be saying if I really liked women, I'd like coy games and being flaked out on? Really, does anyone actually enjoy that?
The cuz matters little. Here's your advice for finding a woman.
- Make your own best life. Not the hit the gym, get buff, make myself more attractive with fat stacks of cash kind. The real you kind. Find what you enjoy. Anything.
- Make friends. GOOD friends.
- BE a positive, grateful and energetic person. Not present a positive, cheerful, charming exterior. BE positive, cheerful and grateful person. Not acting. Not playing. This is the hardest, most beneficial thing you will ever do in your life. But it is beyond true that it is not happy people who are grateful, but grateful people who are happy. By being this person, your self esteem will fall into line without your half realizing it.
- Volunteer. Where you have had challenges in your life, give back. Or really pay forward.
- Find your meaning. Even if your meaning is not saving the world. Curing cancer. Running the Ididerod. Even if you meaning is the peace of a picnic in nature or hoop with your buds. Find it. One of the guys I am seeing loses his mind over his dog. Training his dog. Taking his dog for walks... It is so freaking cute that he takes such an interest in his dog. (Note this does not mean getting a cute Golden Retriever puppy because they are chick magnets.)
Of course there is no guarantee that thousands of ******* will fall at your feet with their legs in the air. But you will waft an energy that is more attractive by far than any amount of muscle will do.
My 2 cents.
Women love men who love their lives, not those who slink around as if they were dogs with a haircut. That means men who are adventurous, men who engage the world around them, and men who are confident in who they are. Most of all, men who don't necessarily need a relationship to be fulfilled.
If you're a guy who has trouble meeting interested women, here's an experiment. Next time you go to a party, talk to women without trying to impress them. Be interested and focused on her, but don't hang on her every syllable and don't treat her like a fertility goddess. Look at her eyes, not at the neckline of her blouse. Be the first to excuse yourself from the conversation. Talk to a lot of people. Be in the moment. Be self-deprecating. Don't talk about yourself. In fact, if someone asks about you, use a little self-deprecating humor and change the subject back to them. You'll be surprised how you suddenly become a very interesting and desirable person when you're not desperately seeking out a romantic partner.
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and "mew!" means. And just because I like women, doesn't mean I want to butch up and act like a man. But it sure seems like we're both waiting for SOMEBODY to.
