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Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
 
7,559 posts, read 11,666,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
But back to the point, go back and read your post. Why, if you are the introvert guy, do you need to go to the jazz bar? Because you want to meet a woman, have sex, have a relationship, etc.

Why does the introverted woman need to put down the game controller and go to the jazz bar?

Is she similarly motivated?

Why or why not?

You answered with, "Because I need to meet lots of women so I'll have a shot of getting one." Which circles right back to "women should do this because I need..." OK but what woman is sitting at home thinking about what some random guy she's never met might need? ...? What is HER motivation to get out to that jazz bar and increase YOUR odds?
She should be motivated by the potential to meet somebody compatible that she can share years of life with and possibly start a family.

If she is not, then she doesn't have to go. However, I would say that most women are motivated to find this, probably more so than men. If she's the view the potential 'hang out partner' as somebody that she could never be physically attracted to and there's no point, that's fine too. But again, if there's too much of a skew between what women find attractive and men find attractive, not good for either party...

I will admit there's a lack of alignment between social adjustment in men and women. In that, there's more socially adjusted women than men. But still, we're talking socially adjusted compared to other women.
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Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM
 
12,832 posts, read 10,065,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
She should be motivated by the potential to meet somebody compatible that she can share years of life with and possibly start a family.
She SHOULD huh?
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Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
717 posts, read 129,341 times
Reputation: 1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
As a bi woman, I have. And it is comparatively a complete pain in the arse. Which is why I sympathize a lot with men, and why most of my partners have been male despite me having crushes on women more or less constantly. Men make it so much easier than women do. Even a woman who has shown a lot of very obvious interest in me...I still don't feel sure that she'd actually want to have sex or any sort of a relationship with me. I feel like she is just playing a game, honestly, and it feels like too much hassle to even engage too deeply with it. So I'm like, "Well we are at least friends and that's cool I guess. I have no idea if anything else is even possible there, so I'm just not gonna worry about it."
Ah OK. I hadn't given too much thought to the challenges of dating women specifically. I assumed it would be much easier than dating men for some reason.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,157 posts, read 7,448,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
She should be motivated by the potential to meet somebody compatible that she can share years of life with and possibly start a family.

If she is not, then she doesn't have to go. However, I would say that most women are motivated to find this, probably more so than men. If she's the view the potential 'hang out partner' as somebody that she could never be physically attracted to and there's no point, that's fine too. But again, if there's too much of a skew between what women find attractive and men find attractive, not good for either party...

I will admit there's a lack of alignment between social adjustment in men and women. In that, there's more socially adjusted women than men. But still, we're talking socially adjusted compared to other women.
This (bold) might have been true at one point, but honestly I'm not so sure anymore.

For some women, yes. But I don't think that those women are sitting home alone pining or rejecting all the guys because someone better could be one swipe away.

Like even though I don't get as much male attention as some of the women I know, or as much as some men think that all women ("average" women) do...I still had a hard time being single. Not because being single sucked, but because it was super challenging to stay that way for very long, plenty of men made it very clear they wanted to be with me. Finding someone to settle down with was not a challenge. Not ever. Avoiding that, if anything, was the challenge. Avoiding settling in with the WRONG person, was a challenge. Not many men will treat me the way I want to be treated. Fortunately I found one, but if I'd committed to the first guy who wanted a relationship with me, I would have been miserable in a failed relationship and I might not have met the guy who is pretty much perfect for me, or as close as anyone can be.
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM
 
12,832 posts, read 10,065,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
Ah OK. I hadn't given too much thought to the challenges of dating women specifically. I assumed it would be much easier than dating men for some reason.
I found it so. I did not find the approach thing the same as Sonic.
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Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Continental Europe
717 posts, read 129,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I found it so. I did not find the approach thing the same as Sonic.
I always thought that dating women would be easier because my female friends are so pleasant and easy to get along with.
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Old Yesterday, 12:11 PM
 
Location: In a place beyond human comprehension
7,742 posts, read 4,960,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I always thought that dating women would be easier because my female friends are so pleasant and easy to get along with.
Oooohhh nooo.

Never assume the word is similar to your small group of friends. Big mistake.
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Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Continental Europe
717 posts, read 129,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auraliea View Post
Oooohhh nooo.

Never assume the word is similar to your small group of friends. Big mistake.
Lol. I admit I thought about dating women, after my last relationship broke up and he was quite abusive (he moved into a house share with a men's rights activist several months before we broke up, and got on board with that whole philosophy... very toxic and sexist), so that experience really put me off men for a while. But sadly I couldn't muster up enough physical attraction towards women. Wish I could though.
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
7,559 posts, read 11,666,013 times
Reputation: 8407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Like even though I don't get as much male attention as some of the women I know, or as much as some men think that all women ("average" women) do...I still had a hard time being single. Not because being single sucked, but because it was super challenging to stay that way for very long, plenty of men made it very clear they wanted to be with me. Finding someone to settle down with was not a challenge. Not ever. Avoiding that, if anything, was the challenge. Avoiding settling in with the WRONG person, was a challenge. Not many men will treat me the way I want to be treated. Fortunately I found one, but if I'd committed to the first guy who wanted a relationship with me, I would have been miserable in a failed relationship and I might not have met the guy who is pretty much perfect for me, or as close as anyone can be.
If 10 (random number) men are interested in being in a relationship with you and 20 are interested in your friend that is even hotter than you, then that means that 30 men are going after 2 women.

And that means that either...

1) 28 women are getting no attention

or

2) that those men are going after multiple women and that 'numbers game' that men speak of is basically what's being used
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Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,157 posts, read 7,448,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
If 10 (random number) men are interested in being in a relationship with you and 20 are interested in your friend that is even hotter than you, then that means that 30 men are going after 2 women.

And that means that either...

1) 28 women are getting no attention

or

2) that those men are going after multiple women and that 'numbers game' that men speak of is basically what's being used
I consider "numbers game" the more likely scenario, from what men say--but every one of those men will rule out some few of the women, too.

But the chaos of it being that in that group, there will be some number of people that any given individual just won't find attractive (not just based on looks, but whatever criteria are meaningful to them.)

Which means that as it shakes out, if numbers are more or less even, then some people will pair off and partner up...some will settle but not be happy (relationships that don't last) and some will wind up going home alone. Of those who go home alone, I find that the women will take the position that they are waiting for the right match and have no obligation to settle, they may lament the lack of acceptable options, but they recognize that they are making the best choice for themselves, to be alone rather than with someone they don't want. The men will construct elaborate social theories on why it isn't fair and the game is rigged and they can't get anywhere in it. I guess. If one points out to them that they could have gone home with Helga in the corner or whatever, they'd be like, "I can't help it, who I'm attracted to, it's NATURE, so no that wasn't an option!" Zero acknowledgement that they had a threshold somewhere, and they made a choice. Just like everyone does.

Oh and besides, in response to your earlier comment, I've been noticing more and more women are becoming not-so-interested in even having kids at all. And vocally so. Which, in conjunction with possibly having their own good career and no financial dependence, means they're even less likely to put up with anything unpleasant in a man who wants a relationship with them. A lot of guys think that means women are only choosing the most rich or good looking men, but I am not seeing that...I'm seeing women try to be slower to commit and more selective about behavior and life habits. But that could just be some bias on account of my own age, maturation, and people I spend time with. Women, I think, feel more empowered but also the burden of a lot more responsibility, to take ownership of our lives and whether they turn out happy or not.
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