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Old 08-13-2019, 07:55 PM
 
875 posts, read 229,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
And online, sure, there were hundreds of "I'm a man and I want a woman" guys on the OLD apps. But once I cut out the soldiers, stoners, gang-bangers and yee-haw cowboy types and got down to the goths, geeks, and freaks, MY people, the pickings were slim indeed. Less than twenty out of all those hundreds, I think. Filter by the age range I was looking for, and it was even fewer still. And that's before any consideration of appearances or stability in life, if they had kids or a job or any number of things.
Less than twenty...still probably a lot more than you could find at a bar. Maybe not as many as you could find at a con or an event, but, those don't exactly happen every Friday night. And that's my point...to a woman looking to be selective in dating, she's going to have an easier time of it being intentional rather than accidental. Meaning, if she's at a jazz bar on a Friday night, she's probably there to listen to jazz and chill rather than find someone to date. Whereas, me, honestly, I have gone into bars and other places with my ear to the ground, hoping to maybe meet someone (and been completely ignored on most occasions). As has been said on here, men are usually the ones trying to do the meeting, women are usually the ones trying to do the weeding.

If a guy has anywhere near 20 matches...intentional matches, who matched him first...after doing interest-weeding himself, he is a very rare man, indeed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
What At Arms Length is talking about with getting better at socializing, just making that initial connection with a higher number of women who COULD be candidates...that's a great place to start in my opinion. He may need to take a next step at some point of working out the best way to indicate dating interest without coming off as threatening or pushy (which is a thing I sympathize with, when it comes to women I've wanted to date, I struggle with it, too.)
(From a different post)

I'd been led to believe that this sort of thing is a bad idea. If she's interested she'll let me know, and if not, keep it friendly and no further, like she's doing.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,605 posts, read 7,671,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Sounds like you did not like HER. It's not a chick thing.

lol. No. But not everyone is direct the way you want. And that is ok too.
Oh, I like her. Just...if I throw down clear statements of interest and even consent and the vibe I get back seems really hesitant, even if it's still kinda flirty, I'm going to assume that she is playing the "it's fun to flirt with my friends but it doesn't mean I want to date/have sex with them" game. The other point is that even though I like women and, as I say, get crushes on them fairly often, I'm by no means desperate to get a woman in my life. It's not a goal, it's just something I'm open to if it all happened to line up. So far it doesn't seem to be happening and that's ok too.

But when it comes to any partner, I'm always thinking that if we develop very strong feelings for one another, unless I'm very carefully structuring it so that this will NOT happen, they can end up in my closest inner circle. The one that presently includes my fiance and my sons and my cat. Household-close, even, in time. And because of that, and the fact that I have no tolerance at all for drama, fuss or conflict in that space, if I detect hints of problematic life behavior, I sort of lock people into a place where I feel safe...out there...where they can't cause me stress, and their problems aren't my problems. It so happens that even the women I meet who really seem to have it together, have downsides to who they are that I cannot accept in the closest of my circles. Thus far. You can be an incredibly sexy genius with a great career and a great education and money, but if you're also bipolar and get blackout drunk at least a couple of times a month if not every weekend... I adore you, but meh, it's probably for the best it didn't work out. (This is only one example--I've similarly given up on women who, as I've said, were flaky or uncommunicative or problematic for me in other contexts, too.)

My sample size of women I've at least tried to connect with, thinking something could come of it, is pretty small, though. As I said, it's not tremendously important to me, and I'm damn sure not playing any kind of a numbers game. But I can see that if I felt more urgent about it, I'd either have to accept things that make me uncomfortable, or I'd have to expand my search, and I'd definitely have to try a lot harder. I would rather not.

All I'm saying is what I've always said, which is that I have compassion for people who are struggling to make their lives be the way they would like them to be, our struggles might not all be identical, but we've all got our particular challenges. I try to "get it" when I can.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:41 AM
 
13,473 posts, read 10,297,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Oh, I like her. Just...if I throw down clear statements of interest and even consent and the vibe I get back seems really hesitant, even if it's still kinda flirty, I'm going to assume that she is playing the "it's fun to flirt with my friends but it doesn't mean I want to date/have sex with them" game.
I am going to suggest that you might be making an incorrect assumption and/or incorrectly assuming that this is a female characteristic or common behavior.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,605 posts, read 7,671,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I am going to suggest that you might be making an incorrect assumption and/or incorrectly assuming that this is a female characteristic or common behavior.
I'm sure that there are many mitigating factors that influence things.

If I were a lesbian and had no involvement with men, my experience with other lesbians would probably be quite different, for instance. At least I would hope so. 88% of my sexual partners have been male, and there are reasons for that, far beyond my preferences.

But several bi- or pansexual women I know agree with me that men make things easy, relatively speaking. They are not always easier in the long term of the relationship itself, but in the sense of getting a connection off the ground? Yeah.

I can tell you right now, if I had no partner, and I wanted to have sex with a man, it would be extremely easy to make that happen. I mean, not putting any other parameters or requirements on it, just saying that basic fact right there. And if I had no qualifying criteria and I wanted a RELATIONSHIP with a man, that would also be extremely easy to get. For me.

But if I had no partner and I set out wanting sex with another woman? I would not be able to simply and easily find that. There would be at least some challenge to it, comparatively. If I wanted a relationship with a woman, even with no filters or preferences or parameters involved, just a woman, any woman...it still would not be as easy for me to get that going. Even in a community chock-full of LGBTQ+ people where hetero women are a tiny minority, it would not be "easy."

I mean, I class many things about myself with the ultimate answer of "I'm lazy and I prefer what is easy." Gender? I'm lazy, so I guess female works just fine. Orientation? I'm lazy and men have made this easier for me, so mostly men, rarely women (though I'm attracted to all sorts, including recently a couple of trans people.) Relationship style? I tried poly but it was...like...effort... What I'm doing now is easy, and...I'm lazy. So. Power dynamic? God, Master/slave sure looks like a TON of work. Even D/s is a bit much. Let's just be SM because that's fun and lets us be...lazy! lol The only hard line I draw anywhere anymore, is that I wouldn't date a vanilla person. That's it. That's all that's left, everything else has just become defined by the path of least resistance.

Now if I were a guy, struggling to find a date? I don't think that any of that would work. I'd be like, "I'm lazy" and people would be like, "Well, there you go. If you won't do the work, you can't expect the reward." I've got a certain privilege, I think, in getting away with being a lazy-arse about all this.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:59 AM
 
7,704 posts, read 11,817,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I can tell you right now, if I had no partner, and I wanted to have sex with a man, it would be extremely easy to make that happen. I mean, not putting any other parameters or requirements on it, just saying that basic fact right there. And if I had no qualifying criteria and I wanted a RELATIONSHIP with a man, that would also be extremely easy to get. For me.

But if I had no partner and I set out wanting sex with another woman? I would not be able to simply and easily find that. There would be at least some challenge to it, comparatively. If I wanted a relationship with a woman, even with no filters or preferences or parameters involved, just a woman, any woman...it still would not be as easy for me to get that going. Even in a community chock-full of LGBTQ+ people where hetero women are a tiny minority, it would not be "easy."
I really think you can see things from both perspectives and I think that is really valuable.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:31 PM
 
54 posts, read 9,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

And online, sure, there were hundreds of "I'm a man and I want a woman" guys on the OLD apps. But once I cut out the soldiers, stoners, gang-bangers and yee-haw cowboy types and got down to the goths, geeks, and freaks, MY people, the pickings were slim indeed. Less than twenty out of all those hundreds, I think. Filter by the age range I was looking for, and it was even fewer still. And that's before any consideration of appearances or stability in life, if they had kids or a job or any number of things.
quaintance, with no pressure or expectation of romance or sex at all.
Less then twenty is still a hell of a lot more then the struggling guys were talking about who canít get one date.

Those dudes would cut off a finger to have that many options lol
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,605 posts, read 7,671,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg78 View Post
Less then twenty is still a hell of a lot more then the struggling guys were talking about who canít get one date.

Those dudes would cut off a finger to have that many options lol
LOL this is funny. You are the second guy who assumed that meant that I went on dates with 20 or whatever guys.

I said, once you weeded out the soldiers, stoners, gang-bangers and yee-haw cowboy types, basically all the guys I could take one easy look at and know we would not get along, I was left with less than 20.

Out of those, I can rule out several more due to age, life circumstances, possibly something like religion...the things you find out on a closer look.

In the end, I might have sent messages to 10 or so, let's say. I think it was less, maybe 6-8.

That's not the number of guys I got, went on dates with, had sex with, had relationships with, or the number that were "options." That was the number that I messaged.

Out of those, maybe 2-5 of them even bothered to message back. At least one or two was insulting for no reason when they did, and got blocked. A couple of them I met for a first date, and it was awkward and terrible so I had to "Sorry, no sparks, good luck!" them later and not see them again.

The group ya'll are pointing at, and saying, "Oh you're so lucky you had these OPTIONS"... LOL! If you're like the guys here playing the "numbers game" your group is dozens, or hundreds of women. Mine, is less than 20. That I would even consider meeting. That it is even worth my time to send a message to. Out of those, very much fewer will wind up being a date, and fewer still sex, and fewer still a relationship.

Though it worked out fine, because I only really needed ONE and we managed to find each other anyhow.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:48 PM
 
13,473 posts, read 10,297,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I do. I just don't like coy game stuff. I want clear statements of consent, y'know, like the ones I'm willing to give to the men and women that I'm interested in. Not a face and a noise. I have no idea what and "mew!" means. And just because I like women, doesn't mean I want to butch up and act like a man. But it sure seems like we're both waiting for SOMEBODY to.

Well then heck there was the time I had a date set with an older, more masculine woman (I'm actually pan, so a genderfluid person is still of interest) and she freaking forgot and stood me up.

You seem to be saying if I really liked women, I'd like coy games and being flaked out on? Really, does anyone actually enjoy that?
I wonder if I just misunderstood. You make these gender comments like this. It sounds like you were saying that being "easier" is superior and better in its nature. I think all you are saying is getting down with men is easier ... sans the moral or whatever judgement.

What I was saying is you have thoughts that you are attributing to "women" that I don't agree with. Not sure I mean that anymore.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:03 PM
 
Location: In a place beyond human comprehension
7,852 posts, read 5,067,844 times
Reputation: 13026
Sometimes I feel like obsessively and excessively dating works against the very nature of making connections in and of itself. People are so stuck "meeting the right person," they don't allow themselves to really look at people for what/who they are. All dating is (in this particular context) is going out and being social. Something you can do anywhere. It's literally this simple, sometimes people talk and relationships start. All that happens in between is not something we can physically or mentally control. But trying to explain this concept is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock. Some people just don't want to accept that. And I believe that's the crux of the frustration for A LOT of people.

As a person who has been in many one sided crush situations, I can tell you options don't mean a thing to me. In fact, all of the suitors I had during my time crushing on someone else ANNOYED the crap out of me. Those guys would try their damnedest to convince me that they would treat me so much better than the one I was idealizing. While that may have been true, it didn't matter because I didn't want them. Ugh, when people start talking about options, I just get frustrated because it never made a difference for me personally. It just aggravated me.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Colorado
12,605 posts, read 7,671,698 times
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Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I wonder if I just misunderstood. You make these gender comments like this. It sounds like you were saying that being "easier" is superior and better in its nature. I think all you are saying is getting down with men is easier ... sans the moral or whatever judgement.

What I was saying is you have thoughts that you are attributing to "women" that I don't agree with. Not sure I mean that anymore.
I hate how tone does not come across in text...the bold part of what you quoted, that I said, imagine me laughing while saying it. And the bit right after. I don't take any of this too seriously.

About the only "serious"...ish?...thing...that I was wanting to convey, is if a man says, "I really find it challenging to begin a sexual/romantic interaction with a woman. Sometimes it's all rather confusing and seems to take a lot of effort...and then is still confusing anyways." I would say, "Yeah, I've had some confusing times in that area too guy, I get ya." Hell maybe women just generally aren't socialized to ask for what we want, even when we know what that is, and we know that we want it? Or for all I know the women who treated me flakily or gave me mixed signals really weren't into me like that. Could be. I dunno.

Definitely not a judgment of things being superior or better or any of that kind of deal. I prefer to be "easy" (which does not mean unscrupulous or not discerning, mind you!) myself...I like to un-complicate matters where I can. I find it nice when I engage with others who are the same way. Though admittedly my straightforward approach to things has caught some men off guard and even been off-putting to some of them. That's ok, too.
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