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Old 08-06-2019, 01:54 AM
 
8,261 posts, read 6,081,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
How do you, uh, deal with your biology?
I had to face my fears. Mainly the fear that I was going to end up alone. I asked myself what I could do in case. Then I looked at what I enjoy by myself such as music among other things. One thing I realized is if I do wind up alone, other than a few loneliness pangs here and there, I'll be okay.

Background, As a child, I've faced abandonment and at some point neglect (likely traumatic because I don't want to give my heart or get close)

Another thing, I always have the fortune of hearing someone go through heartbreak. Watching, hearing, reading about the agony is one of the factors that slow me down to a crawl. Because I know that could be me. As a matter of fact, I actually feel their hurt sometimes. No matter how great I think I am, I could have the rug pulled out from under me. And then be left in pieces by myself.

For me, it took perspective and a realization that things could be worse.

Each person is different. It might require something different for you.

I just want all of us to be in a place where a lack of relationship isn't going to be very painful to us. Because we are not guaranteed a relationship. It doesn't matter how many lids and pots there are.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:55 AM
 
12,700 posts, read 10,025,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJenkins602 View Post
I had to face my fears. Mainly the fear that I was going to end up alone. I asked myself what I could do in case. Then I looked at what I enjoy by myself such as music among other things. One thing I realized is if I do wind up alone, other than a few loneliness pangs here and there, I'll be okay.
And thus the journey to a strong self esteem was begun. I hope. You sound like an amazing guy.

Quote:
Background, As a child, I've faced abandonment and at some point neglect (likely traumatic because I don't want to give my heart or get close)

Another thing, I always have the fortune of hearing someone go through heartbreak. Watching, hearing, reading about the agony is one of the factors that slow me down to a crawl. Because I know that could be me. As a matter of fact, I actually feel their hurt sometimes. No matter how great I think I am, I could have the rug pulled out from under me. And then be left in pieces by myself.
I am sorry! Being empathetic comes at a cost. I once shared your view. And then took a chance. Looking on the backside of 25 years of marriage, when that rug is pulled out from under you, it is one of the worst things ever. But you know what? You heal. You can come to a place where you can cherish the good stuff and not worry so much about the awful. I lot of people never get there. They stay stuck in bitterness and resentment. But you sound very much to me like an introspective and wise person. Maybe someday, if you want, you will take the risk of making yourself vulnerable. But if you don't, you are ok by yourself. I have mad respect for you.

Quote:
For me, it took perspective and a realization that things could be worse.

Each person is different. It might require something different for you.

I just want all of us to be in a place where a lack of relationship isn't going to be very painful to us. Because we are not guaranteed a relationship. It doesn't matter how many lids and pots there are.
I am so glad you post here. Thank you for sharing your insight. Even if no one else appreciates it, know that I do.
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:00 AM
 
12,700 posts, read 10,025,929 times
Reputation: 16356
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
Right, and I get to pick the trajectory. But I don't get to pick whether I ricochet or penetrate. (Uh.) That has to do with the composition of the surface I'm impacting, and that is out of my control. I can lose 145 pounds, I can add muscle mass, I can revamp my wardrobe and hairstyle to something more trendy, I can improve my social skills and spend more time meeting and engaging with people of all walks and types, I can engage in new hobbies that open up new experiences and socialization options, I can improve my career to make more money, I can quit bad habits that stunt my personal growth and appeal, I can "put myself out there" and try to find and take opportunities to women people out...but none of that guarantees me anything on the dating market, because after a certain point I cannot control what kinds of boxes I'm checking for a woman who is potentially willing to date someone. So, if I'm doing all of those things in order to increase my chances of getting a date (which, I did), there is no guarantee that they will necessarily lead to success in trying to date (which they didn't).


I did those things for the wrong reason. Which is why I disagree with OP's premise...the things she lists are all fantastic ways to improve as a person, not necessarily to get a relationship as the title claims. It's true that the latter often follows the former, but it's no guarantee. There is no magic bullet. So, improving one's life should be its own reward, not a series of goals achieved on the way to the larger goal of being dateable. That was my mistake...not the things I achieved, but the motivation.
Yes. This is absolutely, positively, 100% true. In my opinion, there is no recipe for getting a relationship. And the super funk it puts your mind in is an obstacle. An obstacle to meeting or dating At All. And a full stop for acquiring a genuinely satisfying, truly loving one. How can you be half of a loving relationship when you are expecting the other person to be the solution to your problems?

My sister, many years ago, was frustrated by her inability to find a man. She got pissed beyond measure at the truism that you find a partner when you are not looking. But It Is True.

When you ask yourself what you want to BE, and who you are, and you don't have an answer. When what you want to BE is "in a relationship", then you will fail. Whether you fail by not getting one or fail by acquiring one of misery, you will fail. The converse, if you seek relationship with this and this action you will succeed is impossible
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:18 AM
 
1,271 posts, read 1,311,763 times
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As described previously, best and sure way to make 0 - 100 difference as a guy is by being proactive and assertive in a way described earlier in this thread.

You can observe it through endless examples of guys who are fully dysfunctional and definitely not deemed as "relationship material" by most men and women. Yet these guys do initiate and get into (sexual) relationship with women, over and over again.

A way to make it much more fulfilling type of relationship is to scan for WHAT YOU WANT in a woman. Not what a woman wants in a man. That's something women should (and will) do for themselves.

Making yourself the best version of yourself is more about ensuring that a relationship will last, this being of much more importance IF you aim for long-term relationship and it definitely has the best effect when BOTH parties to have such mentality towards each other from a get-go.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:45 AM
 
12,700 posts, read 10,025,929 times
Reputation: 16356
Quote:
Originally Posted by nald View Post
As described previously, best and sure way to make 0 - 100 difference as a guy is by being proactive and assertive in a way described earlier in this thread.

You can observe it through endless examples of guys who are fully dysfunctional and definitely not deemed as "relationship material" by most men and women. Yet these guys do initiate and get into (sexual) relationship with women, over and over again.

A way to make it much more fulfilling type of relationship is to scan for WHAT YOU WANT in a woman. Not what a woman wants in a man. That's something women should (and will) do for themselves.

Making yourself the best version of yourself is more about ensuring that a relationship will last, this being of much more importance IF you aim for long-term relationship and it definitely has the best effect when BOTH parties to have such mentality towards each other from a get-go.
All true. But far too advanced for guys who can't walk out the door to make a dude-friend. That is like relationship seeking 301.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:32 AM
 
8,261 posts, read 6,081,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
And thus the journey to a strong self esteem was begun. I hope. You sound like an amazing guy.


I am sorry! Being empathetic comes at a cost. I once shared your view. And then took a chance. Looking on the backside of 25 years of marriage, when that rug is pulled out from under you, it is one of the worst things ever. But you know what? You heal. You can come to a place where you can cherish the good stuff and not worry so much about the awful. I lot of people never get there. They stay stuck in bitterness and resentment. But you sound very much to me like an introspective and wise person. Maybe someday, if you want, you will take the risk of making yourself vulnerable. But if you don't, you are ok by yourself. I have mad respect for you.



I am so glad you post here. Thank you for sharing your insight. Even if no one else appreciates it, know that I do.
I can be vulnerable. I just want to make sure I am balanced to where I see relationships as they really are. Good ones are great to have, but if you're not in a relationship, things can still be really good.

I'm thinking more about what I hear about guys who go on destructive rampages because they can't "find a girl". (And yeah, I know there are women who have struggles too. Spare me guys. I hear mostly about males lashing out and I am a male myself).

I'm thinking about destructive ways of handling dating luck so to speak. That is where I'm coming from. And it's not just me. I've seen other guy's lives improve when they just mentally backed off and not put so much weight on dating and finding someone. Women were apparently more receptive. I didn't get my first girlfriend until I changed my mindset about relationships to be more of a "good if it happens, good if it doesn't."

Last edited by TJenkins602; 08-06-2019 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:49 AM
 
7,520 posts, read 11,643,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nald View Post
A way to make it much more fulfilling type of relationship is to scan for WHAT YOU WANT in a woman. Not what a woman wants in a man. That's something women should (and will) do for themselves.

Making yourself the best version of yourself is more about ensuring that a relationship will last, this being of much more importance IF you aim for long-term relationship and it definitely has the best effect when BOTH parties to have such mentality towards each other from a get-go.
Good advice.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell what you want from a relationship UNTIL you have a relationship.

Ideally, a person would have some experience with several casual and serious relationships by the time they are say ... young 30s, and take if from there.

But, society makes it WAY too hard. And people are way too shallow.

Let's be honest. There's a good amount of nice, funny, smart guys who are looking primarily for a partner and would ideally pick someone based on those attributes. But they can't even get a woman to date them until age 28.

If you want to argue there's women in that position too, that's fine.

It really should not be that hard.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:04 AM
 
8,261 posts, read 6,081,871 times
Reputation: 5875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Good advice.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell what you want from a relationship UNTIL you have a relationship.

Ideally, a person would have some experience with several casual and serious relationships by the time they are say ... young 30s, and take if from there.

But, society makes it WAY too hard. And people are way too shallow.

Let's be honest. There's a good amount of nice, funny, smart guys who are looking primarily for a partner and would ideally pick someone based on those attributes. But they can't even get a woman to date them until age 28.

If you want to argue there's women in that position too, that's fine.

It really should not be that hard.
I'm feeling it's harder than it needs to be for a lot of people. And there's plenty of reasons why.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:19 AM
 
3,863 posts, read 1,787,332 times
Reputation: 7633
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Good advice.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell what you want from a relationship UNTIL you have a relationship.

Ideally, a person would have some experience with several casual and serious relationships by the time they are say ... young 30s, and take if from there.

But, society makes it WAY too hard. And people are way too shallow.

Let's be honest. There's a good amount of nice, funny, smart guys who are looking primarily for a partner and would ideally pick someone based on those attributes. But they can't even get a woman to date them until age 28.

If you want to argue there's women in that position too, that's fine.

It really should not be that hard.
What is it that society does to make things difficult? I'm asking that without intending any tone of incredulity or sarcasm. What could society do differently, or how could dating look different or feel different so that people struggling to find relationship, or just to get a ****ing date, would have an easier time?
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:26 AM
 
2,134 posts, read 900,473 times
Reputation: 5233
I did say it could fail 90% of the time. But it's worth it. I guess you just don't know how to pick up women. Naturally there's got to be a recognition that she is interested in you, but that's easy to spot. The opposite sexes have a biological imperative to seek out a mate. It's in our dna. You sound like you are conducting a job interview. It's not that complicated. Maybe education and theories get in the way. If you find a girl attractive and you sense some interest in you it's always OK to ask for a number, even if you have only known her for 15 minutes. If you snooze, you lose. I always cultivated women as relationship objects, and when they did too, that's what we got. I would have considered anything else a waste of both of our times. I've never had a girl buddy except after the relationship was over. Naturally that excludes relatives and my wife's friends, after I got married.
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length View Post
There's the disconnect. Just because someone likes chatting with you doesn't mean they want to give you their number. Hell, just because they like chatting with you doesn't mean it's even OKAY to ask for their number. That's bad form if there's no interest there, and mere attraction on my part combined with mere conversation on her part doesn't constitute interest.


Besides, I thought part of the drift of some of this thread is seeing women as people, not relationship objects, and I agree. I've never asked anyone out after one encounter (except in situations where that is expected, such as in online dating-type scenarios). I want to know more about her than her appearance before I ask her out, and I should be able to have a friendly conversation with someone I find attractive without hitting her up for her number if I'm not reading any reciprocal interest.

Last edited by bobspez; 08-06-2019 at 09:52 AM..
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