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Old 08-08-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
81,016 posts, read 74,119,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
This is a very long thread and I don't have time now to read the replies but I agree with OP. I think women have sold themselves out and they are paying the price for it. They have sex for nothing in return. And they ARE generally wired for bonding over sex. So now what I happens a lot of the time is women go along with the FWB thing, hoping the guy will eventually form a relationship with them. I have seen this from women on dating forums. They spend a lot of time with the 'what is he thinking' stuff and usually he has been pretty clear about it.
Humans are wired for bonding over sex. There are just as many guys who hope their FWB will eventually fall for them, or even that their platonic "friend" will do so, as there are women with that hope. And women as a whole definitely have not sold themselves short in this regard, as a perusal of the threads started by guys complaining about women who "hold out for sex", which the guys view as "playing games" or "following a schedule", will testify.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
81,016 posts, read 74,119,183 times
Reputation: 80694
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisTown123 View Post


Well yeah, things can get kinda dodgy when feelings get involved anyways, but I really think that this is a failure in communication. Fact is, most folks I know, do not sit down and HONESTLY negotiate with regard to romantic or sexual connections with other people. I know tons of people who think that even talking about STI status is just such a mood killer that they don't wanna. Let alone having the conversation like, "OK so I know that our parameters were originally set at a FWB place, but I think it's only fair I let you know that I am developing some loving feelings for you, and beginning to see you differently. I don't want you to feel threatened by this, but I'd like to ask if you would consider altering the landscape or do you prefer to keep it as it is?"

Mainly what seems to blow some people's minds, is that having loving feelings for someone does not in fact mean that you've got to insist on new terms. "I love you" doesn't mean:
- I demand exclusivity in terms of your sexual partners, emotional connections, and social activity.
- I demand that we start planning to move in together.
- Here comes Bridezilla!
- I WANT BABIES.
- I'm totally going to throw away your favorite recliner and your action figures.

Love does not have to be a trap. Literally every aspect of a connection between two people should be voluntary and both should consent to it, or it shouldn't happen. Period. And I think that a lot of this conflict comes from assumptions and lack of clear communication. It's not so much "sex changes things, and it just doesn't work," it's more like, "these people aren't putting in the effort to use their words, state their needs, respectfully hear the other person's needs, and be honest about what they've possibly got to offer, and what they really do not." It does not have to be as confusing as people often make it.



I am sorry that your experience has given you this impression. One of the best lovers I've ever had was casual. My relationship I'm in that makes me very happy today, began as casual. Where casual means "No stated plan or expectation to escalate though the milestones of gf/bf labels, exclusivity, cohabitation, marriage, etc." That changed...but it changed gradually.





Yeah, and chasing that dangling carrot isn't a good thing. Once it wears off, then it's off to someone else. There's this lack of constant dissatisfaction that's going on in their lives that they are never happy. The bolded can be sadly likened to that of a kid that gets bored of a toy quickly, and the parents get him a nother toy...then another, then another. Pretty soon he'll have a whole stack of toys STILL complaining that he's bored and the mother says, "go play with your toys", "I don't like those anymore!"

They are constantly chasing that fix.

I am of the upbringing, "You gotta make due with what you have". and "Builds character". There's just something about people that bore easily that I don't associate with them too intimately. I don't see it "finding a dazzling new lover" simply because your bored as a positive whatsoever.
"...action figures"? Please, please, tell me that was sarcasm or some other type of humor. I'm begging you! Maybe it should be obvious, but from what I've observed out there, grown men with action figures isn't far-fetched at all. Adolescence has extended to age 40.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-08-2019 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Colorado
13,315 posts, read 8,043,523 times
Reputation: 23953
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisTown123 View Post
Yeah, and chasing that dangling carrot isn't a good thing. Once it wears off, then it's off to someone else. There's this lack of constant dissatisfaction that's going on in their lives that they are never happy. The bolded can be sadly likened to that of a kid that gets bored of a toy quickly, and the parents get him a nother toy...then another, then another. Pretty soon he'll have a whole stack of toys STILL complaining that he's bored and the mother says, "go play with your toys", "I don't like those anymore!"

They are constantly chasing that fix.

I am of the upbringing, "You gotta make due with what you have". and "Builds character". There's just something about people that bore easily that I don't associate with them too intimately. I don't see it "finding a dazzling new lover" simply because your bored as a positive whatsoever.
It isn't a good thing for someone like YOU to get involved with such an individual.

But again, you are judging things to be objectively good or bad, right or wrong, simply based on YOUR values and YOUR needs. Enough people out there are willing to engage in casual sex or short term relationships that they can go mingle among their own and it doesn't need to leave emotional destruction in its wake. The problem in my opinion, is when someone (like you) comes along, decides "This woman is so beautiful, surely I can change her ways if I just...love her hard enough!" and they to cram her into a relationship model that she's not built for... The wrongdoing is then on BOTH of their parts, but most folks (like you) will only point to her as the one doing anything wrong, because she isn't conforming with a socially expected pattern of behavior.

Just because plenty of people agree with you that "This is the One True Way!" does not make it ok to try and force that one someone who has told you quite clearly all along that they were NOT down for it.

Which, again, is what keeps happening with my friend. She keeps meeting these guys, and telling them 100% clearly up front and all along, that she is not willing to do exclusivity, give up her friends and social activities, accept control over her choices and her lifestyle, she does not want to be anyone's "girlfriend" and if they can be satisfied with just getting together and having fun (not just sex, but other adventures and outings too) then she is willing to spend time with them.

Yet inevitably, they start with the "I don't think it's right that you're going on dates with other guys" and the "I will make you mine" and the "I want to spend my life with you" talk...and she cuts them loose. You think she's wrong for not getting with the program and being happy with what that guy, and society, wants of her. I think she's perfectly within her rights to want what she wants, ESPECIALLY since she told them repeatedly, and they chose to be delusional about it and figure "Ah well this silly girl doesn't know what she wants, not until I TELL HER what she wants." Like if they could perhaps understand she's a whole entire person with a mind of her own and the right to live her own life, and that yes, when she says, "This is who I am, this is what I want" she means that...

But again. Such are the pitfalls of casual relationships. Someone might get emotionally invested. For individuals who believe that emotional investment has got to mean escalated commitment, and/or for whom coping with emotional pain or loss is severe and destructive to their mental health...if someone tells you that they are only down for something casual, then you should really hear that and probably write them off as incompatible.

And now...flip this. The guy is the casual one, and girls keep wanting to pin him down with commitments. He gets demonized as a player, a commitment-phobe, a Peter Pan, whatever. For refusing to go along with society's script. I find this equally wrong, and the only thing that mitigates this is the basic matter of HONESTY. Because I think that plenty of guys who only want casual connections, believe that they cannot get them unless they lie, due to that culturally enforced nonsense that men want sex for its own sake and women don't.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Colorado
13,315 posts, read 8,043,523 times
Reputation: 23953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
"...action figures"? Please, please, tell me that was sarcasm or some other type of humor. I'm begging you! Maybe it should be obvious, but from what I've observed out there, grown men with action figures isn't far-fetched at all. Adolescence has extended to age 40.
Yes and no?

My boyfriend has a bunch of collectible figures in boxes. I think that they are cool! It actually made me angry when, in that movie, "The 40 Year Old Virgin" the guy's friends made him hide his collectibles and in the end, the sign of him growing up and settling down was him selling them all to fund some business venture at the new girlfriend's prompting. People who are collectors, like, that's part of who they are, and if you love them, then you should love that about them, too, ideally. At least that's what I think.

(I also collect "toys" like the McFarlane dragons, but I often take them out of their boxes for display...it's not about the value, it's about me wanting to enjoy them.)

I guess the sarcasm was in the notion that if a woman is in love with a guy it's only a matter of time before she transforms his dwelling into something off the cover of "Better Homes & Gardens." In other words, being controlling, demanding he change to suit her, etc.

But in a casual context, and in the sense of this thread, I'm trying to make the point that you can love someone without trying to take over their life. People make too many assumptions about this inevitable avalanche of consequences the minute anybody "catches feelings."
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:40 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 750,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I don't find it an either or proposition, but I sure do find the bolded sad AF. You have one life to live and you have the power to influence how your life goes. And just making due with what you have as the primary operator is awful to me. Constant seeking where nothing is valuable is the polar opposite of this and likewise awful. Balance ma dude.
And if one gets so bored of a partner so easily, they they can toss away people like an old pair of shoes or toy that they are tired of, then that's a reflection on somebody's character. That's what I'm getting at here.

I see you didn't quote that part of my post.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:44 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 750,361 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
It isn't a good thing for someone like YOU to get involved with such an individual.

But again, you are judging things to be objectively good or bad, right or wrong, simply based on YOUR values and YOUR needs. Enough people out there are willing to engage in casual sex or short term relationships that they can go mingle among their own and it doesn't need to leave emotional destruction in its wake. The problem in my opinion, is when someone (like you) comes along, decides "This woman is so beautiful, surely I can change her ways if I just...love her hard enough!" and they to cram her into a relationship model that she's not built for... The wrongdoing is then on BOTH of their parts, but most folks (like you) will only point to her as the one doing anything wrong, because she isn't conforming with a socially expected pattern of behavior.
I think you're completely misquoting me. You're going off on a tangent here. I am NOT the kind of person that would exact THAT kind of control on a woman. Not sure how you assumed that about me.

Quote:
Enough people out there are willing to engage in casual sex or short term relationships that they can go mingle among their own and it doesn't need to leave emotional destruction in its wake.
Correlation without causation. This seems to be a common theme with you and other's posts. There's no cause and effect here.

For some reason you are tying the benefits of a casual sex lifestyle (people who bore easily) to preconceived notions of the glass-half empty part of monogamy.

Quote:
Also, have you noticed that this particular topic has spanned 16 pages so far. It kind of makes you wonder how hot button this topic is and how divided people are on it.
It's split between the OP's "I can't see how people can do this" and those who can do it. It's these agree to disagree topics that can go on for miles and miles. That...and the "friend zone" topic. lol
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
81,016 posts, read 74,119,183 times
Reputation: 80694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
But in a casual context, and in the sense of this thread, I'm trying to make the point that you can love someone without trying to take over their life. People make too many assumptions about this inevitable avalanche of consequences the minute anybody "catches feelings."
People looking for excuses to not get into a committed relationship make too many assumptions of what they think will be an inevitable avalanche of consequences to feelings developing.

OTOH, people do get hurt when only one half of the FWB falls for the other. I think that's a valid reason to be cautious about getting involved; who wants to feel (partially) responsible for breaking someone's heart? Projecting all that other stuff onto someone isn't particularly reality-based, though, IMO. It's just more stereotyping.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
15,791 posts, read 9,172,464 times
Reputation: 30985
Quote:
Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
there's tons of messed up people.... i think the statistic is something like 1/2 of the population will have a mental disorder at some point in their life. Something like 15% of americans have a severe personality disorder. And some of them, like BPD and narcissism can put on a good show and appear normal until you really get to know them/develop a relationship with them..
A little off topic but worthy of note: Bipolar people and people with other mental disorders often have an unusually high sex drive. I'm a woman who has done more than my share of casual encounters without getting emotionally attached even as I have grown older (with my partner's knowledge/consent) because I prefer it over other forms of "high" such as drinking, drugs, etc. . . Probably makes me sound bad, but it's the truth, and this common behavioral pattern has been borne out in multiple scientific studies. So that's another factor to consider; women with mental illness may be more accepting with FWB when those without would not be OK. And the same holds true for men.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:12 AM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,625,517 times
Reputation: 17797
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisTown123 View Post
And if one gets so bored of a partner so easily, they they can toss away people like an old pair of shoes or toy that they are tired of, then that's a reflection on somebody's character. That's what I'm getting at here.

I see you didn't quote that part of my post.
It depends entirely on how the partnership came down. Surely one does not toss say, their spouse, with no effort or such. Sonic's post is remarkable in its clarity on this topic. I would go one little bit farther. I would say one extremely common malfunction is to hold on to a relationship long after it is good, healthy and rewarding. Given one life to live, why would someone spend it in wrong and meaningless relationships? What is the point except, perhaps god says so?
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:15 AM
 
23,807 posts, read 17,980,682 times
Reputation: 43908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Keep in mind the content of her comment. They're paying her. She's providing a service. It wouldn't cross their minds that they, the clients, should reciprocate and provide a service to her.

OTOH, if she was including in that statement her own personal relationships, that's another matter. I think the issue of selfishness in bed comes up more with ONS, where the guys have nothing invested in a casual encounter, no attachment or bond to the woman. In fact, there have been guys here on this forum who have said, that for ONS they don't bother.

This is why many women don't jump into sex early in the dating process. Maybe those that do, have been lucky, and haven't run into too many selfish guys?

I agree with you. A client of an escort isn't supposed to be generous. That's like a waiter complaining his customers don't share their food with him. I don't think that's a typical escort attitude either, most are able to separate work from pleasure and just want to service their client and leave.
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