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Old 08-07-2019, 09:40 AM
 
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FWB relationship is hard to maintain, even if you do establish up front that it's casual. eventually someone catches feelings, and the party ends.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
691 posts, read 116,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
Casual sex is not for you. You need to be in a long term relationship. With a man who loves and adores you. That is what you are really looking for. And with a person you love and adore back.

How can that happen? Where is this man? The man who cares for you?

Your grandmother was right. Slow down and date men with long term relationship goals. This means making that a requirement to even bother with a man, which you didn't do. Sure, there are few men like this around. Most want casual sex. But the long term guys are out there. Get picky!

Women decide if, when, and how there will be a relationship. If you just want sex, then you are not forming a relationship, are you? Unless you just get lucky and the causal sex guy happens to fall deep in love with you.

How to form a long term relationship? What does a loving, romantic, meaningful relationship look like? This might help. I often refer to this scale of friendship:


5 Intimate Friends
Committed to each others personal well being and happiness
Mutual life goals and work together to achieve goals
Can share deepest feelings with each other
Full trust in each other (earned over time)

4. Close Friends (Few get this far)
Mutual interests
Mind and Spirit connection
Share compatible values, interests and activities
Spend qaulity time together
Honest and dependable
Known each other over a long time
Feel safe to share deeper emotions

3. Casual Friends
Have a connection from same neighborhood, school, church, or activity
Not serious emotionally

2. Acquaintance
Occassional contact with very general knowledge
Talk about general knowledge

1. Stranger
never met before

Notice romance is not listed under any level of friendship. That is because you can have sex or not at any level. A person can have sex with a stranger, but not with an intimate friend!

#4 Close Friends is something few people get to. Each level gets more personally rewarding (life becomes more meaningful) yet takes more effort.

Your romantic connections are at #3, and thus not very meaningful. Or you start to desire something more meaningful and rewarding, next level 4. It's RISKY to have romance at level 3 and hope you can get to next level 4. Good luck with that and it will take a lot of effort and already having sex can make it more difficult going up the scale. Although some couples do start out romantically at #2 and go all the way to #5. This takes both sides fully committed to making a relationship as rewarding as possible. And sex becomes a meaningful celebration.

What's the possibility of going from 1 to 5 from someone you meet online? It can happen, rarely. If that person has shared interests it's a good start. The key is sharing time and interests together in a meaningful way- sharing life together.

Here's where women get tripped up. Romance is the man's department. It's his job to make romance happen. But who is suppose to lead the relationship up the scale? And do all those things that make that happen? Not just the romance? Who's job is that? Answer- the man! A woman will be attracted to a man and his romantic advances, and think the relationship is moving up the scale when actually it's not at all. OTHER things besides romance must happen to move up the scale, and it's the man's job to promote the other things. You will find, and already have, that few men will do so. They want the romance, but not advance the other things. The woman thinks romance is advancing the relationship and is tripped up.

Grandma was right. Slow down, find a man that's not only interested in romance but growing a relationship up the full scale of friendship. (without expecting it from the other, it's to happen organically) Call it Super Friendship. And don't let romance get in the way, but be the reward.
Hi James112,

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

So you're proposing getting into a friendship first with a guy, and then let him lead it somewhere else over time. I like that idea on some levels, however my experience is that if you do this a man will get really excited and try to lead it somewhere romantic and sexual very quickly. I do and have said no and asked men to slow down. Men also think they're being "friendzoned" which isn't necessarily the case.

I do also state on my online dating profile that it takes me a while to work out if I like someone or not, and that I don't do hook ups or any fast forwarding of getting to know one another.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
691 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33 View Post
Throughout this thread people have used "FWB" (friends with benefits) incorrectly. The person that the OP said she was having casual sex with was not her friend. It was a stranger that was passing through town.

An FWB is an actual friend that you have sex with.

An FB (F buddy) is not a friend but rather an acquaintance that you have sex with. Just sex; nothing else; nothing more.

Based on what the OP described, I wouldn't call that person a FB either. I'd say this was a short lived relationship. The OP knew he wasn't going to be in town long, and she has referred to it as casual sex, but I don't think that's the correct wording either.

The OP was cooking dinner for him. That was a date. They were dating. It's being described as casual sex now because he abruptly left town without even saying goodbye, but it doesn't sound like it was intended to be casual at the time. And I'm guessing that's why the OP was sad for weeks after, not because a bond was formed after having sex due to oxytocin.

OP, to me, casual sex is a FB situation or a one night stand. You went into this knowing it would be short lived, but I am not getting the impression you viewed this as casual and later caught feelings.
As he was just travelling we both knew it was not going to last or go anywhere serious, and it was mostly about sex although we did have some interesting conversations, too. Maybe it was a short lived relationship. He would stay the night and cuddle.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
691 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native View Post
Emotional pitfalls of casual sex for women

What's worse: Casual Sex or No Sex?
For me, casual sex is worse than no sex. I will choose no sex, for now, until I meet someone and feel like it's going somewhere meaningful.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
Reputation: 21768
Quote:
Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
FWB relationship is hard to maintain, even if you do establish up front that it's casual. eventually someone catches feelings, and the party ends.
The issue I've always had with this, is that I don't see why "casual" has to mean "no feelings." It's the same question I've got about why casual has to mean disrespect, or "discarding" someone or treating them like they don't matter.

I do not form lifelong committed relationships to every single person that I respect, like, love, care about, etc. I feel those things for lots of people. But I don't have room in my life to commit to all of them forever. Hell, I have a hard time believing in "forever" in practically any case. People drift apart, people die, things happen. But the number of people that I trust to, say, live in the same house with...that's a really, really small number. Just because I would not choose to do that with someone doesn't mean that I'm only using them or dehumanizing them, or don't care about them, or cannot love them.

My choices about who I make commitments to, who I would live with, and so on...are based on a lot more than just feelings. And way more than just sex. This stuff doesn't have to be a package deal.

I've always found it super weird that a lot of guys, if they develop feelings, have to try and seize ownership, expect commitment, feel like love has to lead to marriage and so on. So if the guy does not want a WIFE, then if the woman he's having sex with starts to love him, he runs from that, and if he starts to feel love, he runs from that, and there ya go...party's over. Why? Because of what I consider to be an error in thinking that love HAS to mean all of these other things. Can't just chill and enjoy feeling something nice without getting all weird about it.

That's one reason I really like to break apart all of the bundled assumptions about love, sex, dating, etc.

I mean, I've even seen posts in here about since the OP and the guy ate together, or because she cooked him food, that meant that they were not casual, but in a relationship. LOL what? Is that like the tale where if you visit the fairy realm and eat or drink anything there, you can never leave, or what? Seems very strange.

I had a FB sort of a fling for a while where we would always, every time we saw one another, do a few things...we'd eat, we'd talk for a few hours, and we'd have awesome sex. Sometimes we ate out, more often he'd give me food he had cooked (involving veggies and herbs he grew himself, and cheese he actually made himself!) Yet he had NO intention of becoming anything serious. And since we did not have a legit friendship before or after, and the main reason we got together every time we did get together was for sex... I considered that FB. It was most DEFINITELY casual. Never any question in my mind about that. Yet I loved him. What did that mean? It didn't mean "I want to bond with you forever and have your babies." It simply meant "I feel wonderful things about you, admire and enjoy you, and deeply appreciate the chance to share time and space with you...I think you're the bee's knees, the cat's meow, I really dig you!" What exactly, is so scary about that? Sure, when our connection ended, I was sad, hurt, I overthought everything, it upset me. But I got over it. No big deal, not the end of the world. I have many fond memories of people, places, things, experiences...he is one of them.

Not every view in life is a splendid vista or a brilliant sunrise.
Not every day is a vacation day at the beach.
Not every breath of air is scented of cinnamon and vanilla.
Not every bite of food is a gourmet treat.

Doesn't mean I'll deny myself any of that, just because I cannot cling to it as a constant, forever thing.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
691 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

OP, I am seeing a bit more of where you're coming from since you said that you've read The Ethical S.-word book. You might know people, or hear people like me talk about uncommitted sex in these shameless and libertine ways, and while some part of you thinks it's...cool?...for lack of a better word?...that women can be so free, you have not had good experiences and have come to the conclusion that this doesn't work for you.

Have you seen any of my posts about that one news article that circulated around a few years ago? It was titled, "Is Polyamory the future of relationships?" or something very similar to that. When I first saw it, I was poly myself and even then I thought it was mega stupid. It's just a click-baity way to fearmonger to the traditionalists that those weirdos are coming and they're gonna get you. As any sensible human being knows, the gays aren't out to turn everyone gay, the non-monogamists are not out to turn everyone poly, the entire point with any of these groups is just to be accepted without judgment, as one of many ways that a human being can live their life. So you prefer to take your time and form a commitment, that's cool! You do that! Congratulations on the self awareness, and best wishes on your journey to happiness!

As I imagine you know perfectly well, the path you are now saying you want to walk, is not without challenges of its own. Any path has obstacles to be overcome, but we all get to decide which obstacles we find unacceptable to deal with, and which we think we can handle. As long as people are being ethical...no lying, no using, practicing good sexual safety and health practices...I don't think that one way is objectively better or worse. I can see valid reasons to choose any of the paths that exist. There is no one true way.
Thanks Sonic Spork. I'm just a bit jealous, that's all - lol!

Last edited by Carly1983; 08-07-2019 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:17 AM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
For me, casual sex is worse than no sex. I will choose no sex, for now, until I meet someone and feel like it's going somewhere meaningful.
I am not trying to get you to do or think anything. Just offering alternate points of view. You indicate that you would *like* to be able to have casual sex. You think that doing so *causes* the pain. Have you considered looking at overcoming the pain? Mindfulness is a great tool. The thing that would be kind of cool is that doing to is good practice in general. Like you can't always insulate yourself from pain as you clearly can here. Here you can avoid the pain by not having casual sex. But let's say you get into a great relationship, invest deeply and he turns out to be a cheating, emotionally abusive scumbag. PAIN. But some tools in your tool belt practiced on emotionally less risky stuff.

I would not bother even suggesting such a thing to most people. But you seem pretty introspective.

And reiterating. I am not suggesting you SHOULD do this. Just food or your thought.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
691 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I am not trying to get you to do or think anything. Just offering alternate points of view. You indicate that you would *like* to be able to have casual sex. You think that doing so *causes* the pain. Have you considered looking at overcoming the pain? Mindfulness is a great tool. The thing that would be kind of cool is that doing to is good practice in general. Like you can't always insulate yourself from pain as you clearly can here. Here you can avoid the pain by not having casual sex. But let's say you get into a great relationship, invest deeply and he turns out to be a cheating, emotionally abusive scumbag. PAIN. But some tools in your tool belt practiced on emotionally less risky stuff.

I would not bother even suggesting such a thing to most people. But you seem pretty introspective.

And reiterating. I am not suggesting you SHOULD do this. Just food or your thought.
I'm not sure I have the resources to deal with that pain at the moment. I think I can be a bit obsessive about people when I fall in love with them (probably my anxious-ambivalent attachment.)

Not sure if you know much about attachment theory or that attachment style, but it's characterised by preoccupation with a love interest, worrying that one's interest isn't reciprocated, more sensitive to rejection, etc. And it's due to childhood experiences (i.e. a rejecting/distant parent).

Anxious-ambivalents tend to attract people with an avoidant attachment style (and in my experience, some of the men who are seeking casual sex have avoidant attachment style.) So it just sets up painful dynamics.

I think the answer for me is to find something with someone with a secure attachment style (i.e. someone who wants to have a close relationship) and wait to have sex.

I have done casual sex and I'd say the pain was not worth the enjoyment I had from it so I'm going to conclude it will be the same going forwards.

Last edited by Carly1983; 08-07-2019 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:44 AM
 
3,872 posts, read 1,791,545 times
Reputation: 7647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I'm not sure I have the resources to deal with that pain at the moment. I think I can be a bit obsessive about people when I fall in love with them (probably my anxious-ambivalent attachment.)

Not sure if you know much about attachment theory or that attachment style, but it's characterised by preoccupation with a love interest, worrying that one's interest isn't reciprocated, more sensitive to rejection, etc. And it's due to childhood experiences (i.e. a rejecting/distant parent).

Anxious-ambivalents tend to attract people with an avoidant attachment style (and in my experience, some of the men who are seeking casual sex have avoidant attachment style.) So it just sets up painful dynamics.

I think the answer for me is to find something with someone who wants to have a close relationship and wait to have sex.

I have done casual sex and I'd say the pain was not worth the enjoyment I had from it so I'm going to conclude it will be the same going forwards.
I've never heard a woman describe her choice to wait a while to have sex in quite such a thoughtful, self aware way. Not that those women weren't thoughtful or self aware, but it didn't come through so meaningfully.

I hope you find a patient night owl.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
Reputation: 21768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I'm not sure I have the resources to deal with that pain at the moment. I think I can be a bit obsessive about people when I fall in love with them (probably my anxious-ambivalent attachment.)

Not sure if you know much about attachment theory or that attachment style, but it's characterised by preoccupation with a love interest, worrying that one's interest isn't reciprocated, more sensitive to rejection, etc. And it's due to childhood experiences (i.e. a rejecting/distant parent).

Anxious-ambivalents tend to attract people with an avoidant attachment style (and in my experience, some of the men who are seeking casual sex have avoidant attachment style.) So it just sets up painful dynamics.

I think the answer for me is to find something with someone who wants to have a close relationship and wait to have sex.

I have done casual sex and I'd say the pain was not worth the enjoyment I had from it so I'm going to conclude it will be the same going forwards.
Although I stand by my earlier words, validating your choices here, I also see the point that somebodynew was trying to make. Even if you wait and secure a "commitment" before you have sex with someone, it still is not a guarantee that things will work out, that they will stay and never leave, etc. There are no guarantees. Hence the idea to work on emotional resilience.

I've been obsessive about love interests, too. You should have seen me about that FB I mentioned in my last post. He never found out that I knew where his parents lived, that I'd gone and viewed his brother's public art installation, that I had, with a certain degree of fascination, gathered every scrap of information I could about him. It would have probably skeeved him out to know this, even though I had no intention of doing anything with or about any of that. I wasn't interested in being intrusive, I just wanted as much of a window into his reality as I could get, WITHOUT being intrusive. (In other words, yes, I knew things about his family, no I did not drive by any of their homes in person.) He filled me with curiosity. Sometimes, that is part of the flush and the rollercoaster of being infatuated. And yes, it is a rollercoaster, because there's a lot of insecurity and fear involved, too.

I guess what somebodynew and I are maybe saying...like any kind of pain, like getting a tattoo or going for a dental procedure...at some point since life will never be guaranteed to be painless, we do have to learn to cope with it. Like, "Yes, this hurts...but I am OK. I'm not dying. I'm not in danger. I'm simply uncomfortable, and it will pass." This is really easy to say, really hard to do, and really valuable to learn.
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