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Old 08-07-2019, 12:16 PM
 
3,541 posts, read 1,892,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I'm not sure I have the resources to deal with that pain at the moment. I think I can be a bit obsessive about people when I fall in love with them (probably my anxious-ambivalent attachment.)

Not sure if you know much about attachment theory or that attachment style, but it's characterised by preoccupation with a love interest, worrying that one's interest isn't reciprocated, more sensitive to rejection, etc. And it's due to childhood experiences (i.e. a rejecting/distant parent).

Anxious-ambivalents tend to attract people with an avoidant attachment style (and in my experience, some of the men who are seeking casual sex have avoidant attachment style.) So it just sets up painful dynamics.

I think the answer for me is to find something with someone with a secure attachment style (i.e. someone who wants to have a close relationship) and wait to have sex.

I have done casual sex and I'd say the pain was not worth the enjoyment I had from it so I'm going to conclude it will be the same going forwards.

OK, so I know it is typical these days to label everything and tie it to some sort of psychological or sociological reason, but I felt all of this with certain love interests...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
preoccupation with a love interest, worrying that one's interest isn't reciprocated, more sensitive to rejection, etc.

and I didn't have ANYTHING in my childhood experience to explain it. And most of my friends have had these same feelings and all have them have come from every kind of family dynamic under the sun.


There is nothing abnormal about feeling hurt, let down, obsessive or similar when someone you have strong feelings for rejects you/dumps you or whatever. Please don't try to fit it into some kind of psychlogical "theory" -- that doesn't do any good. You feel the same way millions of women (and men) feel when they've had weeks of sex and cuddling with someone who then texts them right before their last date and coldly says "I'm not coming" while you have their dinner cooking on the stove. Your feelings are normal. It sucks to have them, but they are normal.



The psychological term for it is "life."



Don't worry about trying to figure out if a guy has secure or avoidant attachment. Just get to know him.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:17 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,628,299 times
Reputation: 17797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
I'm not sure I have the resources to deal with that pain at the moment. I think I can be a bit obsessive about people when I fall in love with them (probably my anxious-ambivalent attachment.)

Not sure if you know much about attachment theory or that attachment style, but it's characterised by preoccupation with a love interest, worrying that one's interest isn't reciprocated, more sensitive to rejection, etc. And it's due to childhood experiences (i.e. a rejecting/distant parent).
For ME, that does not sound like a condition I would enjoy having.

Quote:
Anxious-ambivalents tend to attract people with an avoidant attachment style (and in my experience, some of the men who are seeking casual sex have avoidant attachment style.) So it just sets up painful dynamics.
For ME, while accepting those tendencies, I would choose skills to overcome them rather than cede to them. But that is me.

Quote:
I think the answer for me is to find something with someone with a secure attachment style (i.e. someone who wants to have a close relationship) and wait to have sex.

I have done casual sex and I'd say the pain was not worth the enjoyment I had from it so I'm going to conclude it will be the same going forwards.
Sounds good to me if it sounds good to you. I will stop now lest I start to badger you.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,317 posts, read 50,644,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
This is actually a big topic. What drives motivation? What drives behavior? And we tend to simplify in ways that make it easy to understand. And we seek to be pain averse which drives these attempts at understanding. Who wouldn't try to avoid pain? ...
I am in the midst of a conversation with a professional escort [I have never hired her services], she is telling me that most men are very 'selfish in bed' meaning that they will never bring a woman to orgasm.

My question to her, and to you, if this is true, then what motivates a woman to have any further sex again?

If a man does not focus on pleasing a woman, why should that woman ever agree to casual sex a second time?
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:19 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,628,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rya96797 View Post
FWB relationship is hard to maintain, even if you do establish up front that it's casual. eventually someone catches feelings, and the party ends.
Is there something wrong with feelings? They do not prescribe any defined actions to me. I certainly have feelings for both my fwb and my f-buddy. And we all enjoy it quite a lot.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:21 PM
 
Location: UK
1,175 posts, read 299,623 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
For ME, that does not sound like a condition I would enjoy having.


For ME, while accepting those tendencies, I would choose skills to overcome them rather than cede to them. But that is me.



Sounds good to me if it sounds good to you. I will stop now lest I start to badger you.
Totally agree, it's not really a fun attachment style.

However, according to attachment theory, the only way to let go of this attachment style is to get into a relationship with someone with a secure attachment style (ie. someone who enjoys getting close to others, is warm, responsive, wants to commit.) Someone who makes you feel secure. So, everything you don't get in a FB situation.

So, the skills to overcome the attachment style come from being in a steady, committed relationship.

I have tried white knuckling it in casual sex arrangements but always seem to end up a blubbering mess. Lol.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:22 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,628,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I am in the midst of a conversation with a professional escort [I have never hired her services], she is telling me that most men are very 'selfish in bed' meaning that they will never bring a woman to orgasm.

My question to her, and to you, if this is true, then what motivates a woman to have any further sex again?
I don't EVER have sex again with a man who is selfish in bed my soon to be ex-husband included. (Though he was not always selfish in bed. That was just one symptom of descending into a pit of self-pity and self-gratification across his entire life.)

Quote:
If a man does not focus on pleasing a woman, why should that woman ever agree to casual sex a second time?
Better yet is when a man and a woman can please each other without a ton of focus. Ever seen an accomplished dancer?

But to answer your question, for myself, I wouldn't. And don't. I would take an inexperienced, even somewhat ham fisted, lover over a selfish one any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:22 PM
 
Location: UK
1,175 posts, read 299,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12 View Post
i've never heard a woman describe her choice to wait a while to have sex in quite such a thoughtful, self aware way. Not that those women weren't thoughtful or self aware, but it didn't come through so meaningfully.

I hope you find a patient night owl.
Thank you
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:26 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,628,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
Totally agree, it's not really a fun attachment style.

However, according to attachment theory, the only way to let go of this attachment style is to get into a relationship with someone with a secure attachment style (ie. someone who enjoys getting close to others, is warm, responsive, wants to commit.) Someone who makes you feel secure. So, everything you don't get in a FB situation.
I find the bolded remarkably difficult to understand is really the only remedy for this. It is highly uncommon for the therapeutic community to attempt to resolve these issues by reliance on someone else. Quick read of the internet seems to show this as a way people DO tend to resolve things, not necessarily the only way or even the healthy way one "should".


Quote:
So, the skills to overcome the attachment style come from being in a steady, committed relationship.

I have tried white knuckling it in casual sex arrangements but always seem to end up a blubbering mess. Lol.
Again, I would use the term mindfulness training. Hot damn, I said I was going to leave off. But you keep replying!
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: UK
1,175 posts, read 299,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Although I stand by my earlier words, validating your choices here, I also see the point that somebodynew was trying to make. Even if you wait and secure a "commitment" before you have sex with someone, it still is not a guarantee that things will work out, that they will stay and never leave, etc. There are no guarantees. Hence the idea to work on emotional resilience.

I've been obsessive about love interests, too. You should have seen me about that FB I mentioned in my last post. He never found out that I knew where his parents lived, that I'd gone and viewed his brother's public art installation, that I had, with a certain degree of fascination, gathered every scrap of information I could about him. It would have probably skeeved him out to know this, even though I had no intention of doing anything with or about any of that. I wasn't interested in being intrusive, I just wanted as much of a window into his reality as I could get, WITHOUT being intrusive. (In other words, yes, I knew things about his family, no I did not drive by any of their homes in person.) He filled me with curiosity. Sometimes, that is part of the flush and the rollercoaster of being infatuated. And yes, it is a rollercoaster, because there's a lot of insecurity and fear involved, too.

I guess what somebodynew and I are maybe saying...like any kind of pain, like getting a tattoo or going for a dental procedure...at some point since life will never be guaranteed to be painless, we do have to learn to cope with it. Like, "Yes, this hurts...but I am OK. I'm not dying. I'm not in danger. I'm simply uncomfortable, and it will pass." This is really easy to say, really hard to do, and really valuable to learn.
Yes, totally understand.

I think my most fearful belief about myself (I know this is getting a bit deep in here) is that I'm unloveable because I had very unloving parents and no matter what I did it was never good enough. I've come to terms with that now, been in therapy etc.

However, my experiences with men seemed to reinforce that belief. I have had a lot of attention in my life in terms of men wanting to have sex and that has reinforced my belief that men only want sex from me, no one wants to love me or stick around (I'm sure it's not true, just an impression I've had...I'm amazed that there are women on here saying that men want commitment and they don't...I've never encountered that.) I want to be seen for more than something sexual, I want to be loved for who I am on the inside and it seems like I can't get that in a FB situation. I can't seem to get basic manners and respect in that sort of situation either, in many cases. Lol.

Meanwhile I'm tormented by a ridiculously high sex drive. But anyway, boo hoo, there are worse problems in life to have

However, I'm aware that we all have these fears and wounds and I may well get into a relationship with someone who loves me deeply for who I am....and then one day rejects and leaves me.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: UK
1,175 posts, read 299,623 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post




Again, I would use the term mindfulness training. Hot damn, I said I was going to leave off. But you keep replying!
Lol
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