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Old 08-07-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
695 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1099

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I am in the midst of a conversation with a professional escort [I have never hired her services], she is telling me that most men are very 'selfish in bed' meaning that they will never bring a woman to orgasm.

My question to her, and to you, if this is true, then what motivates a woman to have any further sex again?

If a man does not focus on pleasing a woman, why should that woman ever agree to casual sex a second time?
That's not been my experience in bed with men, at all. Most of the ones I've slept with have been concerned about that, maybe too attached to it in a way that can be quite endearing.

Am I the only one who has experienced that?

Maybe the men who visit prostitutes (i.e. the clients she sees) are selfish in bed.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:34 AM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
Reputation: 16402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
That's not been my experience in bed with men, at all. Most of the ones I've slept with have been concerned about that, maybe too concerned & attached in some ways in a way that can be rather touching.

Am I the only one who has experienced that?

Maybe the men who visit prostitutes (i.e. the clients she sees) are selfish in bed.
I have experienced both. The bad in bed category is much more prevalent among young and over-eager men. And people who want to "get" sex. It is way more mental than physical.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Continental Europe
695 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel View Post

There is nothing abnormal about feeling hurt, let down, obsessive or similar when someone you have strong feelings for rejects you/dumps you or whatever. Please don't try to fit it into some kind of psychlogical "theory" -- that doesn't do any good. You feel the same way millions of women (and men) feel when they've had weeks of sex and cuddling with someone who then texts them right before their last date and coldly says "I'm not coming" while you have their dinner cooking on the stove. Your feelings are normal. It sucks to have them, but they are normal.



The psychological term for it is "life."



Don't worry about trying to figure out if a guy has secure or avoidant attachment. Just get to know him.
Yes.

Hoping to meet a securely attached guy, but I get your point. I do think hook up culture sucks and some men who hook up behave poorly.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
Reputation: 21768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I am in the midst of a conversation with a professional escort [I have never hired her services], she is telling me that most men are very 'selfish in bed' meaning that they will never bring a woman to orgasm.

My question to her, and to you, if this is true, then what motivates a woman to have any further sex again?

If a man does not focus on pleasing a woman, why should that woman ever agree to casual sex a second time?
Worth noting: Different women can get there more or less easily from various kinds of stimulation. I know women who do practically every time, and the guy doesn't need to be particularly attentive or skilled at all.

There is variance on our end of the equation.

That said, there's more to enjoying sex than orgasms. I've had enjoyable sex that did not involve a "finish" for me. Yet it was lovely. Sometimes because of my sheer fondness for the person. Why be casual with them then, rather than a relationship? Because I can be fond of someone and yet either they are not a good idea as a partner, or maybe I am not in a place in life to be a good partner. All sorts of reasons.

Ah, but the ones I hooked up with who just weren't really a good time? Either because they were "selfish" or just...with one, I can only describe it as feeling like our energy was completely out of sync. Well, those are the one-time guys. In fact most of my ONS guys wanted more than that, I just didn't enjoy it enough to be willing. This is also a reason why I give men the side-eye if they tell me they've had like hundreds of partners or something. In my head, I'm wondering, "Did none of them enjoy it with you enough to want to keep you around, perhaps?"

I really think, though, it was part of how fixated I got on my FB from 2015, the fact that he was just...SUCH a good time in bed. A rare breed, truly.

I would say though, people do want some kind of return on investment (even the investment of one's time.) A woman who is having a sexual affair with a guy...she is getting good sex, or if not, she is getting good company, or if not, she is hoping it might become more, or if not, she is getting food or money, or if not... Validation? Diversion from boredom? Like there is a reason. Somewhere, there is a reason.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:40 AM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
Reputation: 16402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983 View Post
Yes, totally understand.

I think my most fearful belief about myself (I know this is getting a bit deep in here) is that I'm unloveable because I had very unloving parents and no matter what I did it was never good enough. I've come to terms with that now, been in therapy etc.
I hope you have as much success with therapy as I have. Feeling, even when your intellect knows it is wrong, that you are unlovable and unworthy, is extremely painful no matter how hard you try to power on. I hope you do not find yourself, as I did, with a man who could play that like a fiddle to his benefit.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
7,252 posts, read 4,696,214 times
Reputation: 9340
Iíll just say, ditto Somebody and Sonic.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,112 posts, read 7,437,635 times
Reputation: 21768
@ Carly1983 I'm going to step off to the side of your main conversation you started here (which I've really been enjoying, and thank you for starting it!) and give you some thoughts, that may, hopefully, become tools you can carry in your mental toolbox for the day when you DO find your perfect mate and endeavor to have a loving relationship with him.

Because I think that, despite the part of my psyche that is resigned to simply letting people go...I also get insecure in attachment, in a way I think it is a manifestation of a similar background. I did not grow up believing that people would love me and be there for me and that I deserved to have my needs met. Letting myself feel things for casual partners is OK because I tell myself I can survive when it hurts, when they go, but they will...surely they will, they must... It is trusting others to actually step up, believing that THEY truly love me and want to stay with me...without knocking it down with "You only love me because <fake blah reason crap>" or whatever... Letting myself receive love and devotion is incredibly difficult.

Anyways.

Know your love languages. I think you probably do.

When you find your Person, remember that they are not a mind reader. "Duh"...right, but no really they are not. So there will be times that you need something, and they WILL NOT KNOW. And if you sit there waiting for them to give it to you, and thinking that if they really loved you, they'd do this or that...yeah, that's just setting them up to fail. Remember to use your words. Remember to ask for what you need. Let them know as the relationship develops, the history that made you who you are, and that occasionally you might need a little support and help from them, to quiet doubting inner voices...and that those voices are not their fault. They're just part of where you've come from. Our feelings are not always rational, so feeling insecure is not the same as believing that they are doing something wrong, for instance.

Some of this stuff...once I got it, really GOT it, deep down in my brain-stuff...has transformed my ability to conduct a healthy relationship. Well, as my fiance says, "When the student is ready, the teacher will arrive." Some things we learn just when we need them, at least that's how it's been for me.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:57 AM
 
652 posts, read 336,661 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I am in the midst of a conversation with a professional escort [I have never hired her services], she is telling me that most men are very 'selfish in bed' meaning that they will never bring a woman to orgasm.

My question to her, and to you, if this is true, then what motivates a woman to have any further sex again?

If a man does not focus on pleasing a woman, why should that woman ever agree to casual sex a second time?
It depends on the guy. I think it might have a lot to do with experience level. Guys who havent had much sex tend to be two pump chumps. I think they cant help it. Very experienced guys enjoy drawing out the experience and know more tricks, want to try new things, unusual positions etc.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:03 PM
 
12,789 posts, read 10,050,793 times
Reputation: 16402
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00 View Post
It depends on the guy. I think it might have a lot to do with experience level. Guys who havent had much sex tend to be two pump chumps. I think they cant help it. Very experienced guys enjoy drawing out the experience and know more tricks, want to try new things, unusual positions etc.
The best guys LIKE the ride of both enjoying. Unmechanical.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Continental Europe
695 posts, read 116,586 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I hope you have as much success with therapy as I have. Feeling, even when your intellect knows it is wrong, that you are unlovable and unworthy, is extremely painful no matter how hard you try to power on. I hope you do not find yourself, as I did, with a man who could play that like a fiddle to his benefit.
Somebodynew, been in a relationship like that before (where a man took advantage of my wounds for his own purposes.)

I do not feel I am unworthy and unloveable in my everyday life. I actually feel I am loveable. These things tend to get triggered when someone in a romantic/sexual situation doesn't treat me with respect or rejects me.

So I've decided that dating is a bit like taking on a new employee (I am aware this sounds quite funny!..) I have a business and I don't hire on someone and then give them the keys to my business or access to sensitive information straight away. We have a period where we get to know one another, see how things go, establish trust, etc.

I also have come to see it that way with sex and relationships.

If I hadn't had sex so soon with my casual relationship guy (the one who texted me abruptly saying "I'm not coming" with no other goodbye), I would have seen that I shouldn't have "given him the keys" so to speak. He hadn't earned my trust yet. There were a few things he said which were red flags which I overlooked because the sex was so good and he was leaving soon, anyway.

So that's been the main issue with casual sex partners. I'm not sufficiently invested in the sex to grow a trusting relationship - I only want to do that with people who are looking for long term relationships.

I think my mind is made up about it.

But it has been really interesting hearing others' points of views and maybe my mind will change in the future & with experience.
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