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Well I can understand why people in their 20s and 30s don't want kids. It's career, happy with lifestyle and companionship from friends basically it is a selfish reason but people I know who are in their 60s, 70s, regretted not having them. I can see why that is too. Who will keep you company and be there for you when you are old, gray, and rest of your friends are married and involved with their families and your parents are much older and retired?
What nonsense. You must be a youngster or a very unconfidant older person.
I consider health, more than age, as a determining factor to quality of life. My grandfather was ill in his early 60s; passed away at the age of 64. His wife lived well into her 80s; vigorous, opinionated and devoting all her considerable energy to making the lives of all those around her miserable.
As a childfree person, when my health declines, rather than growing old, I'll have made arrangements for my care, as well as Spouse's. Alternately, I may just check out. It's something I've researched; there are a number of methods to making a quick end to yourself. Until Spouse and I become enfeebled by declining health? pffft We'll continue to be as involved in life as we are at our current ages of 50s and 60s. That means working, for me (Spouse is retired), riding our motorcycles, bicycling, traveling, being involved in animal-related charities and the local library ... Our regrets about not having children are 0. Actually, I'd say that meter drops into the negative numbers, as far as regrets. The irritation I feel at people who assume that CF people must have regret is what sends the number into the minus range.
And what's this silliness about needing people around? Jeezus, why all the yammering about people needing people? For all that we have friends through work and everyday life, and continue to associate with people we meet in outside activities, not to mention family that we are fond of, at the end - Spouse and I are best friends to one another and vastly prefer the company of one another. That has been the key to a successful 30-year partnership. Maybe some people get scared at the prospect that they might be lonely by themselves, there are many who have more fortitude.
Wasting the best years of your life on raising a child just so that maybe, if everything goes well, they'll be there to wipe your ass for you when you won't be able to. Now that's a great idea.
I am looking at 2 viewpoints here. I never said not having children is selfish I said that younger people usually choose selfish reasons for not having children SUCH AS career and for other reasons they could have but these are usually selfish motives. I don't critique anyone who doesn't have kids. It's their choice but to me it seems that the ones who do form families with children or have children aside from marriage are happiest. Yeah children will be adults when you are older.
In some cultures family is very important and children do stick around for their parents when they are older. Yes, even healthy people age and become weaker, everything ages, teeth, bones, strength declines so people aren't strong forever and when worse comes to worse well who will be there for you at the end? who will still be alive? maybe your spouse but most likely your kids. I do have a relative who is like a second mother to me and she never had children but she often says she wishes she had had that companionship of children now that she is older. Solitude is nice but too much of it when your old.. can get sad. And yes I give a lot of of love and support to both my mothers so to the poster above yes there can be good kids.
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Originally Posted by kazukoy
Don't you think that having children for the sake of having children is selfish as well? In fact, one could argue that even having desire to procreate is selfish. You want a to have a child so he/she will be there for you when you're old and gray. There are also people who have devoted nephews, nieces, and large families to depend on.
Not everyone needs companionship to make it through this world. Some people enjoy solitude. I know someone who enjoys looking after other people's kids and some have grown to consider her a second mom, even though she never wants a child herself. Sometimes just having the man/woman you love by your side forever is the ideal happiness.
gives you an idea of people who were pressured into being parent by friends and family and can't stand it. Being a parent is extremely hard work and I think it takes a confident and brave person to honestly say it's not the path for them.
Last edited by cra2ybeautiful; 06-15-2013 at 04:17 PM..
American society is obsessed with the nuclear family. By the time that one has descended into superannuated dotage, one's adult children will be preoccupied with kids of their own. So even purely for "family caretaker" reasons, having kids is a tenuous proposition.
The threat of being left alone in one's old age is definitely real, and is not to be minimized. Rather, the point is that one's reproductive choices do little to reduce this threat.
I notice you are new so I hope youre not trying to start an argument here. I am not a 'youngster' or lack any confidence. I cannot believe you just said and condone committing suicide when you said you may make a quick end to yourself?
Health deterioriates for everyone and everything gets weaker. No one is young and supple or healthy forever. Well if both of you are seniors those health arrangements shouldve already been made since if you both get sick then who will take care of both of you? I do not think you would consider to 'check out' if you had children or other people who are responsibilities. Anyway I do know people in your position an older retired couple in their 60's but just one of the spouses has kids from another marriage that come around the other spouse however doesn't. Problem is, both are very dependent on each other and that can lead to jealousy and possessiveness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davie County Fan
What nonsense. You must be a youngster or a very unconfidant older person.
I consider health, more than age, as a determining factor to quality of life. My grandfather was ill in his early 60s; passed away at the age of 64. His wife lived well into her 80s; vigorous, opinionated and devoting all her considerable energy to making the lives of all those around her miserable.
As a childfree person, when my health declines, rather than growing old, I'll have made arrangements for my care, as well as Spouse's. Alternately, I may just check out. It's something I've researched; there are a number of methods to making a quick end to yourself. Until Spouse and I become enfeebled by declining health? pffft We'll continue to be as involved in life as we are at our current ages of 50s and 60s. That means working, for me (Spouse is retired), riding our motorcycles, bicycling, traveling, being involved in animal-related charities and the local library ... Our regrets about not having children are 0. Actually, I'd say that meter drops into the negative numbers, as far as regrets. The irritation I feel at people who assume that CF people must have regret is what sends the number into the minus range.
And what's this silliness about needing people around? Jeezus, why all the yammering about people needing people? For all that we have friends through work and everyday life, and continue to associate with people we meet in outside activities, not to mention family that we are fond of, at the end - Spouse and I are best friends to one another and vastly prefer the company of one another. That has been the key to a successful 30-year partnership. Maybe some people get scared at the prospect that they might be lonely by themselves, there are many who have more fortitude.
Last edited by cra2ybeautiful; 06-15-2013 at 04:31 PM..
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cra2ybeautiful
Well I can understand why people in their 20s and 30s don't want kids. It's career, happy with lifestyle and companionship from friends basically it is a selfish reason but people I know who are in their 60s, 70s, regretted not having them. I can see why that is too. Who will keep you company and be there for you when you are old, gray, and rest of your friends are married and involved with their families and your parents are much older and retired?
I have friends who have worked in nursing homes who can tell you the answer is NOT your kids in the majority of cases.
lol of course. My family's culture is all about family. Very domestic. I know of no one in my entire famly who put anyone in a nursing home. But I do know people who do that and that is pretty cold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter
I have friends who have worked in nursing homes who can tell you the answer is NOT your kids in the majority of cases.
I wanted to throw out some definitions because it seems that one poster is a bit confused. I could be wrong though. But what I'm reading, isn't making sense.
Childfree by choice (CFBC): CFBC people usually aren't "childfree" because of a career. Those people are typically childfree by choice and usually knew at an early age they didnt' want kids.
Childless: Childless could be anyone who has no kids in the home or no longer alive. It could also be people who couldn't have children and didn't adopt (or couldn't for whatever reason). Usually being childless is not by choice.
Childfree not by choice, but accepted it and embraced it: I threw that one in there because I have met a few that realized they couldn't have children, decided not to go the adoption route and embraced it and now live a fully childfree life. Usually these people were on the fence to begin with and nature decided for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cra2ybeautiful
I am looking at 2 viewpoints here. I never said not having children is selfish I said that younger people usually choose selfish reasons for not having children SUCH AS career and for other reasons they could have but these are usually selfish motives. I don't critique anyone who doesn't have kids. It's their choice but to me it seems that the ones who do form families with children or have children aside from marriage are happiest. Yeah children will be adults when you are older.
I think that applies more to childLESS people. Saying you don't want kids NOW is very different than saying you don't want kids EVER. There are many people who change their minds (usually it's women who's clock starts ticking or who find that special man and bam, wanna make babies). Putting children off for a career is very different than not wanting kids and pursing a career. Does that make sense? To me, what you wrote, it's more about people not wanting them THEN, versus NEVER.
As for happier with kids, I dunno. I think of my GF's who are in their 30s with kids. They sure as heck don't seem happier now than they did when they didn't have kids. In fact, they seem more stressed out, more harried, more tired. They love their family, but their marriages are dead (they're mom/dad, not husband/wife, haven't had sex in a few years - not for lack of trying or wanting) and all they do is complain about the kids, the spouse, or lack of time/energy/sleep. I guess it does bring them some sort of happiness. I wouldn't know. I don't want kids and the idea of kids makes me not happy.
Quote:
In some cultures family is very important and children do stick around for their parents when they are older. Yes, even healthy people age and become weaker, everything ages, teeth, bones, strength declines so people aren't strong forever and when worse comes to worse well who will be there for you at the end? who will still be alive? maybe your spouse but most likely your kids. I do have a relative who is like a second mother to me and she never had children but she often says she wishes she had had that companionship of children now that she is older. Solitude is nice but too much of it when your old.. can get sad. And yes I give a lot of of love and support to both my mothers so to the poster above yes there can be good kids.
Very true. And I know many of them. And do you know how many of them feel resentful? Many. Especially their spouses when they have to live with the in-laws. But because of culture, they do it anyways because it's what you do. My BF absolutely HATES his parents. HATES them. But he does everything he can to take care of them "because they're family". Oh and they treat him like dirt and never appreciates anything he does for them and loves his brother more (even though brother can't and doesn't help them in any way). I guess IMHO, they are very very very lucky to have such a wonderful son who values family above all else, otherwise, they'd be screwed. And yet, his parents wish that he was never born. Go figure. Not all parents are as lucky as his are. Only the ones who instill family as the most important thing within their culture are winning.
Just curious. After defining the differences, was your Aunt childless? Childfree by choice? Childfree not by choice, but learned to accept and embrace it (only to regret it later because she was lonely - which IMHO is an extremely selfish reason to have children).
I ask, because most older childfree by choice couples I have met....are extremely happy w/o kids. They have friends, do tons of traveling/activities, enjoy one another's company, are involved with the community/church/etc. The ones I meet that have regret....are the ones that were childless (aka unable to have kids, but moved on with life), some are unhappy and others are happy. At that point, it could be a POV on life (glass half full bit).
Glad im not the only guy around here with same mindset
I am married(a woman that waited until I was married 25rys old(now 38yrs old) and are going to stay married, but I DO NOT WANT KIDS EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER! But I I also don't like intercourse, I just like foreplay. Intercourse doesn't do anything for me, although, never had intercourse with anyone else to know if it could, but not willing to try it either to find out since I am VERY HAPPILY MARRIED to my sole mate. Anyway, you aren't the only person though. I just am NOT a "MOTHERLY" person. I am just not into going to games or recitals or crying babies or extra responsibilities or anything like that.
Although, if you don't want kids, you should either A. Expect to not have intercourse at all(which is not an option for basically no man, but it *IS* a TRUE option though) B. Get a vasectomy C. Use condoms correctly and NEVER not use some form of BC. Otherwise, you can't have it just your way. For example, if I wasn't married, I met you for example, since I hate intercourse, for me, I don't care if I have it and I dont' want kids, so for me I don't care about it. You, on the other hand, probably do, so that's your issue, NOT MINE. Understand my point?
You can't have it all your way, because you also still can have a kid without intercourse with being not careful with foreplay also or butt sex. My point is, you aren't the only person, but you do have to *SACRIFICE) some things just as I am. I am risking pregnancy for an activity that gives me *ZERO* pleasure what-so-ever to be married. That's life. You may have to endure some risk to get what you want and know you are responsible for your actions as well if a pregnancy does occur.
My main point is, You aren't the only person that feels this way. I am a woman and DO NOT EVER FREAKING WANT THAT **** IN MY LIFE. I call kids ****, because I don't want that crap. It's not that they are ****, but I don't want all of that responsibility. I want FREEDOM like when I was a teenager to do WHAT I WANT TO DO *WHEN* I want to do.
I didn't want children either, till I got to 30. Once I had them I realised how fantastic being a parent is - I got put off because my little sister was born when I was 20 and I saw what hard work it was! But being the actual parent was totally different to being the sibling. Why do you feel so strongly about this? You need to look at the reasons why. But if you are sure then that's your decision. My brother and sister in law have no children - they are very happy and have lots of fun travelling and going places - they have freedom.
I know this was a long time ago post, but I will answer for myself. I feel strongly, because I LOVE FREEDOM. I LOVE my sleep, MY OWN MONEY, MY OWN VACATIONS, MY OWN ORGASMS, OTHER ACTIVITIES, ETC.
WHY put more on your plate(a saying), if you don't have to? I'd rather not have all of that responsibility and be able to do things *WHEN* I want to do it. There's times I have been so sleepy, it's like I can't keep my eyes open. When you are a parent, you *HAVE* to or your kid can be taken away if you let them do whatever they want. You can't just go to sleep.
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