cheating (wives, mother-in-law, how to, men)

[old_cold]

Ivory...I actually read all of your other thread...threads(?) and subsequent posts.
It sounds like you have several very valid reasons for giving up on this marriage and you are using his infidelity AFTER no longer thinking he had a marriage as the excuse that you thought most people would agree with.
Looks like you thought wrong.
Actually, I think it's the only reason that you are allowing yourself since it was the one thing that leaves you faultless.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I'll take that to mean you don't have an answer that will stand up to scutiny.

Of course you would!

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by old_cold

Ivory...I actually read all of your other thread...threads(?) and subsequent posts.
It sounds like you have several very valid reasons for giving up on this marriage and you are using his infidelity AFTER no longer thinking he had a marriage as the excuse that you thought most people would agree with.
Looks like you thought wrong.
Actually, I think it's the only reason that you are allowing yourself since it was the one thing that leaves you faultless.

No, infidelity is the only reason a marriage can be dissolved. Yes, I've had lots of reasons to leave over the years but none allowed for dissolution of the marriage. Only leaving. This one allows moving on because adultery dissolves the marriage vow. So, it's the only one I need to worry about. You are correct I'm isolating one thing but not for the reasons you think.

My belief system is such that I would have to accept he wanted to change and help him change anything else. So long as the kids are in no danger. Me, I can take care of myself. Us codependents are good at that . My beliefs require me to stand by him for most of this as long as the kids and I are not in danger. They do not require me to stand by infidelity. That is crossing the line.

But, honestly, it's the one I can't get past. I really do believe he had an epiphany and that he is sincere about getting the driniking under control (whether moderation works or it's abstinance, he'll have to decide). I do believe he regrets letting the ghost of his ex come between us. There are lots of things he seems sorry for and wants to change. But none explain her or make her go away.

I focused on the drinking and the issues with the kids thinking they were the big ones but I've come to see her as the biggest one (the drinking and issues with the kids were strong motivators to not divorce. Correcting both makes divorce less negative). I have two options and both spell the end of the marriage. A) he cheated and the marriage is over. B) he was done and moved on and the marriage is over. B allows him to say he didn't cheat but the marriage is over none the less. It can't be over when convenient and then resumed when convenient. It doesn't quite work that way.

I wish I could get past her. For the first time we had a chance at a normal relationship. But a line was crossed that went too far.

I'd love to hear the, supposed, situations where ending up in someone elses bed while still married doesn't consitute cheating. I don't think there are any.

Seriously, regardless of what he believed, if you go by the vows we took (particularly the forsaking all others part) the marriage ended when he chose her. There really isn't any other way to slice that, is there? Even if the divorce were final, I would have considered myself married in the eyes of God. Divorce was just a legal action for financial reasons. Quite honestly, it was the difference between being able to pay my bills on my own or not. Just getting him off of my medical insurance would have saved me half a mortgage payment every month and a couple thousand a year in out of pocket medical expenses.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

No, infidelity is the only reason a marriage can be dissolved. Yes, I've had lots of reasons to leave over the years but none allowed for dissolution of the marriage. Only leaving. This one allows moving on because adultery dissolves the marriage vow. So, it's the only one I need to worry about.

My belief system is such that I would have to accept he wanted to change and help him change anything else. So long as the kids are in no danger. Me, I can take care of myself. Us codependents are good at that .

But, honestly, it's the one I can't get past. I really do believe he had an epiphany and that he is sincere about getting the driniking under control (whether moderation works or it's abstinance, he'll have to decide). I do believe he regrets letting the ghost of his ex come between us. There are lots of things he seems sorry for and wants to change. But none explain her or make her go away.

I focused on the drinking and the issues with the kids thinking they were the big ones but I've come to see her as the biggest one. I have two options and both spell the end of the marriage. A) he cheated and the marriage is over. B) he was done and moved on and the marriage is over. B allows him to say he didn't cheat but the marriage is over none the less. It can't be over when convenient and then resumed when convenient. It doesn't quite work that way.

I wish I could get past her. For the first time we had a chance at a normal relationship. But a line was crossed that went too far.

I'd love to hear the, supposed, situations where ending up in someone elses bed while still married doesn't consitute cheating. I don't think there are any.

Seriously, regardless of what he believed, if you go by the vows we took (particularly the forsaking all others part) the marriage ended when he chose her. There really isn't any other way to slice that, is there? Even if the divorce were final, I would have considered myself married in the eyes of God. Divorce was just a legal action for financial reasons. Quite honestly, it was the difference between being able to pay my bills on my own or not. Just getting him off of my medical insurance would have saved me half a mortgage payment every month and a couple thousand a year in out of pocket medical expenses.

Of course there are other ways to "slice it" but you don't want to hear that, which is really your choice. We each have to decide this kind of question for ourselves and it looks like you have, so I'm just not quite sure why we are still discussing it?

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by old_cold

There are so many much more hurtful and disasterous ways to be betrayed in a relationship that "only" sexual indisgression shouldn't be given as much importance as it has.
Why,with what attitude and sometimes with whom, can make a huge difference as to whether or not it should mean the automatic end of a marriage.
I'd guess most that declare "That would be IT for me!!" are fairly young and/or pretty idealistic

Absolutely not....I don't care who it's with...it is still adultry and is still cheating....and yes, it certainly should be given as much importance....and how does it make a difference....and yes, it should be the end of a marriage....I wouldn't want to be married to anyone who'd lie and cheat and lay with another woman and I don't care if she's the pope...cheating on a spouse is most certainly dishonest and has probably gone on for quit some time before the person being cheated on found out about it...and, statistics show, that most people who cheat, cheat over and over again...

I mean no insult, I'm simply stating a fact, but I'd like to see you tell what you just said to any woman/man whose been cheated on....and see what she or he says to you. You are violated....not to mention, now take the change of acquiring some kind of disease.....not to mention, your trust and faith in that person and the institution of marriage, broken....there is no excuse for cheating...and it's up to the OP to decide what she wants to do...but I tell you true....I would not forgive and take him back...I tried that once, when I was younger....guess what, he cheated again...

and again and it wasn't the first time.....and in going to counseling, reading many books, articles...talking with other spouses, statistics show that most people who have cheated have cheated with several...and many.

I think a wife is weak when she trys to keep the marriage together, I was, and it didn't do any one of us any good....so in my knowledge of what he was doing, and what he had done, I was the one who had a choice and made my life worse by wanting to believe it was the first time and he'd never cheat again....shessh...how foolish I was.

Then when I left, 2 days later, he had the women in the house...no sense of shame what so ever....how do you think it looked to all the neighbors....????

And when you find out they've cheated...it is usually not the first time and won't be the last.

Sorry....but it's a real touchy subject with me, that today, grown adults have less and less control over themselves, so they try and excuse they're actions by saying the spouse was nuts, or not a very nice person...well, if that is true, then leave first...if it's that bad....leave.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

Of course there are other ways to "slice it" but you don't want to hear that, which is really your choice. We each have to decide this kind of question for ourselves and it looks like you have, so I'm just not quite sure why we are still discussing it?

We were married, he was with someone else. Go ahead. Slice and dice that so there is no infidelity while keeping the marriage intact. Have at it. Either he cheated or considered the marriage over before he chose her. Either way, it's done. To me, the forsaking all others part of the vow was violated when he chose her (there isn't a moving out part or a filing for divorce part but there is a forsaking all others part)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

Absolutely not....I don't care who it's with...it is still adultry and is still cheating....and yes, it certainly should be given as much importance....and how does it make a difference....and yes, it should be the end of a marriage....I wouldn't want to be married to anyone who'd lie and cheat and lay with another woman and I don't care if she's the pope...cheating on a spouse is most certainly dishonest and has probably gone on for quit some time before the person being cheated on found out about it...and, statistics show, that most people who cheat, cheat over and over again...

I mean no insult, I'm simply stating a fact, but I'd like to see you tell what you just said to any woman/man whose been cheated on....and see what she or he says to you. You are violated....not to mention, now take the change of acquiring some kind of disease.....not to mention, your trust and faith in that person and the institution of marriage, broken....there is no excuse for cheating...and it's up to the OP to decide what she wants to do...but I tell you true....I would not forgive and take him back...I tried that once, when I was younger....guess what, he cheated again...

and again and it wasn't the first time.....and in going to counseling, reading many books, articles...talking with other spouses, statistics show that most people who have cheated have cheated with several...and many.

I think a wife is weak when she trys to keep the marriage together, I was, and it didn't do any one of us any good....so in my knowledge of what he was doing, and what he had done, I was the one who had a choice and made my life worse by wanting to believe it was the first time and he'd never cheat again....shessh...how foolish I was.

Then when I left, 2 days later, he had the women in the house...no sense of shame what so ever....how do you think it looked to all the neighbors....????

And when you find out they've cheated...it is usually not the first time and won't be the last.

Sorry....but it's a real touchy subject with me, that today, grown adults have less and less control over themselves, so they try and excuse they're actions by saying the spouse was nuts, or not a very nice person...well, if that is true, then leave first...if it's that bad....leave.

I'm so sorry for what you went through. I hope you can move on and make a better life for yourself.

[old_cold]

Seriously, regardless of what he believed, if you go by the vows we took (particularly the forsaking all others part) the marriage ended when he chose her. There really isn't any other way to slice that, is there?

he most likely said that when he got married the first time and didn't hold to it 'forever' did he? Why didn't it bother you then?

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by old_cold

Seriously, regardless of what he believed, if you go by the vows we took (particularly the forsaking all others part) the marriage ended when he chose her. There really isn't any other way to slice that, is there?

he most likely said that when he got married the first time and didn't hold to it 'forever' did he? Why didn't it bother you then?

He divorced his first wife because she committed adultery. She violated their vows. Infidelity dissolves the marriage.

I'm not sure he holds the same beliefs that I do but that doesn't really matter. I have to live by mine.

[old_cold]

I'm sorry cremebrulee that you had to go through that but........as with so many things, what one persons experience isn't exactly the same as anyone elses and so shouldn't be viewed as the ONLY way to go.
If I listened to your absolute advice I wouldn't be looking forward to my 50th anniversary in 3 years.