cheating (divorce, betrayed, mature, beautiful)

[jmfnme]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

We were married, he was with someone else. Go ahead. Slice and dice that so there is no infidelity while keeping the marriage intact. Have at it. Either he cheated or considered the marriage over before he chose her. Either way, it's done. To me, the forsaking all others part of the vow was violated when he chose her (there isn't a moving out part or a filing for divorce part but there is a forsaking all others part)

You were separated and you had filed for divorce. These were important and influential events.

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by old_cold

Congrats on your upcoming 50th anniversary!!
Thank you and I am just hoping his poor health doesn't rob us of the fun of reaching that landmark.
Creme.....you are also not wrong when you say once won't be it, statistically.It wasn't just once.
But....the underlying reason had to be settled before the behavior changed.And yes, it was work.....hard work,frustrating and heartbreaking sometimes.
But we both felt that all the other parts of our life together made it worth the work.
Giving up would have been sort of like "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"
Obviously, shattered pride , horrible feelings of insecurity and a ton of other issues had to be dealt with but, you know? I had to learn an awful lot about me at the same time
Dealing with all that meant improvements in every other aspect of dealing with people in general and all other aspects of our life and ended up giving us a good base to withstand the 900 other body-slams that life had in store....and those that may still come.

Hahahah......my husband is 2nd generation Italian by the way so you have an idea of how much work I mean went into this relationship
I so well remember how my mother-in-law commiserated with me and agreed he was such a ****....but then was furious with me one time when I left him!! Ya just don't do that! LOL
Crembrulee....I think you may understand better than most that the infidelity wasn't the worst part. It was that underlying reason for it....the total lack of respect for you as an equal.
I remember getting honest with myself and realizing I was really pissed at that I was 'stuck' home being the good little wife while he was stealing what should have been MY time.......having the freedom to have fun and games without ME.
That's what is the real cheating....cheating you out of all the good times that should be yours.
Some women get this treatment by their husbands and their buddies! No sex involved.
Not being put 'first'.That's why I maintain that infidelity alone is seldom the real problem.
Unless there is more involved, extra-martial sex wouldn't exist....it's just a symptom of more serious issues.

Ahhh, now I understand...thanks so much for taking the time to explain, and yes indeed....he used to say, I was a jealous woman....I said, indeed I am.....I'm jealous of the time you spend away from home without me....I'm jealous that you chose to invest your time in other women...I'm not jealous of the women....he said why, I said, you know why....b/c you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I wouldn't cheat on you....you told me once, you trusted me with your life....I can't say the same about you any longer...and I'm emotionally drained, there is nothing left. Since then I dated, early on, two men...they were both cheaters....one I did fall in love with, but realized, he wasn't the man he pretended to be. I've not dated for years....and I'm fine...I've grown so extremely aware of what my purpose is, what life is about...and am dependent on only me....it's a grand feeling of freedom...to be who I am....because I compromised my identity, my personal institutions, my beliefs....I will never ever do that again....for anyone...change is good, but I hated me, the person, cheating made me into while I was with him....it was horrendously hurtful and over and over again, I felt so violated...my innocence was gone...that total belief in that this person whom I shared my whole being with, would treat that so carelessly and throw it all away, simply b/c he had to feed his ego...he was weak...and he later told me, my strength intimidated him....he said, I was such a good person and stayed loyal to me, which in turn, proved my loyalty to him, he said I was his perfect candidate for a wife...I said...very sad, you didn't realize "we" could have worked this out before you violated the marriage....me, and all who love us...very sad, you were to selfish to realize, all those you've hurt along the way, not just me....and now, I can't give you any longer...and I couldn't....I didn't fell safe with him any longer, nor did I feel I could share my soul with him...so I left one day, sporatically, simply rented a u-haul truck and took all my things....we sold the house we all worked so hard on to remodel...including my son...

I wasn't angry anymore or hurt, just so darned frustrated that I stayed so long and tried to make it work, as I realized, I was running on empty. His own sister told me, I love my brother, but you should get outa there, b/c he will drive you crazy.

When I left, I left the emotional abuse, and felt like the entire world was lifted from my shoulders.... I had changed...matured emotionally and no longer wanted to invest who I was with him. But believe me, it took a long long time....and quit frankly, b/c of it, I don't believe I've be good with any one any longer. something inside changed, or died...but I'm not sad, more so, a better person because of it....much stronger, independent...it is difficult to find a good man....to me, a good man, is one who things before he act.

I'm well aware of a man's sexual drive...and needs....but it takes a special kind of man, who is mature, secure and good with who he is, to realize, he's not going to risk, emotional failure, or what he has, by cheating or one night stands. Some men never get it....and it's because of how they were raised. How much faith they have in themselves...and to know, sex is only one part of a relationship. If someone isn't committed to themselves, doesn't value their own being, then how can they respect others?

A lot of men will say, "Well I cheated b/c she was cold and never wanted any physical relationship". Well then, while she was wrong, two wrongs never makes it better....leave first....get your mind in the right place, before you date again....but as I said, some men, never grow up and realize a much bigger picture then themselves.

It's not my problem...never want to be a mother to another man again. I prefer celebasy and peace of mind, then to give of my soul and hear those words coming from the living room...."Honey, would you bring me a beer, in a frosted mug or I had a chilled manhattan made for him when he walked through the door? In fourteen years of being together, we never went on a vacation together....except near the end, when he was desperate, he took me to Colorado to see my son, and to Niagra Falls....and the whole time, I pondered...why am I here, I don't want to be? I had nothing left to give.

Thanks for the chat, it's been refreshing...and nice to know that I can go back, relive it, and feel nothing but relief that I'm not still in that place, yanno. Big hugs....Creme

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by jmfnme

You were separated and you had filed for divorce. These were important and influential events.

Well, considering he left and I filed we'd be even, as has been pointed out at that time. So, I didn't cause this. He chose it.

It was his choice. It's just one I've come to the conclusion I cannot live with. What does previous events being influential have to do with this? I had the same previous events and chose not to cheat. It was a choice. Plain and simple. If the circumstances caused it, they would have caused me to do it too. They didn't. So how can you blame the circumstances? If they're justification for him to do it, they'd be justification for me to do it too but I didn't.

People keep trying to use the very same circumstances that I made the other choice in to justify what he did. I don't get it. The fact I made the other choice shows that in this same set of circumstances it is possible to choose otherwise. So it's not the circumstances that made him do it nor do they justify the choice.

While I do agree he had the right to do what he wanted, provided the marriage was over. The fact remains it, obviously, wasn't over in his mind. If it were, he wouldn't have come back. What I can't get is how the marriage can be over to justify her but not over when he decides he wants to come back (I actually didn't drop the divorce for several weeks after we started talking and then only because I felt I really needed to see what he'd do with the controls taken off. I was, in no way, convinced we were going to stay together.)

[jillz]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

I am very sorry for how hurt you were when someone cheated on you

However, I hear this expression repeated A LOT and I just do not agree that "once a cheater always a cheater".

Maybe that is true in many cases, but I know a few where it really is not. I believe if a person has cheated, but then realized with horror and regret what they have done, they can get some help and get back on the right track in life. People who cheat have psychological issues that need to be dealt with. If they face that and get some help, life can be better than ever before. Talking in absolutes and assigning this fate of "once a cheater always a cheater" to every single person who has made this horrible mistake is just not 100% accurate.

I agree with you lovesMountains. Not everyone who has cheated is a serial cheater.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by jillz

I agree with you lovesMountains. Not everyone who has cheated is a serial cheater.

Thanks jillz, I'm only stating what I know to be true It is also true that many couples overcome infidelity in a relationship when both partners really want to do the work it takes. The sad thing is when one wants to do the work but the other just won't.

[jillz]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

What situations where a person goes outside the marital bed would not be defined as cheating? Doesn't any going outside of the marital bed go against the marriage vows?

How can you be married, in someone elses bed and not cheat?

When the divorce papers have been filed....

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by jillz

When the divorce papers have been filed....

So a marriage is over once the papers are filed? That would mean no going back once papers are filed so my husband and I are no longer married.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

Thanks jillz, I'm only stating what I know to be true It is also true that many couples overcome infidelity in a relationship when both partners really want to do the work it takes. The sad thing is when one wants to do the work but the other just won't.

Sometimes she can't. To me, being with someone else is such a deal breaker that I can't go back. I can't trust and I've lost respect. That leaves me unable to try again. There's nothing left. This is one of the two thing I told him would end our marriage if they ever happened. I've known all my life that once pledged to someone you either honor that pledge or leave. There is no gray area. No middle of the road. No u turns.

[BethfromEngland]

Personally, i wouldnt take someone back who had cheated on me.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by BethfromEngland

Personally, i wouldnt take someone back who had cheated on me.

Every person must make that decision for themselves. But not all episodes of cheating are the same - so you are better off taking all factors into account before you make such a huge decision. Some people throw away potentially great relationships by being unwilling to forgive or grow thru the pain. Other times the cheater can't/won't be reformed and you have to cut them lose.