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Old 06-09-2008, 05:12 AM
Status: "Current ear worm - charming Billy..." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,728 posts, read 15,754,422 times
Reputation: 11345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrshvo View Post
In my few minutes of spare time, I have been reading through several different posts, and came across this one and the one that is relevant to this one posted by the same OP.

Being as I haven't been involved in the argument....I do have to state something...but I also have a feeling that just like the plethora of posters that are not agreeing with the OP...which are the majority of posters I do have to say...it appears as it doesn't matter what the majority of people think (which actually should say something, as it is the majority).

I am not going to comment my opinion on who is right or wrong in the cheating business, because it appears as if I agree with her, I am right and if I don't, I am wrong...which is nonsense, so I just won't comment.

I am going to comment on the fact that people- including her, come on her for advice, from unbiased people. In this situation, those unbiased people are people who are not actually involved with her, so they will most likely be able to give truer (yeah, I know that word is incorrect) opinions because they don't have any involvement or care in the matter. What is wrong is that people come on here "asking for advice", but what they want is advice or comments that only swing their way. That becomes apparent when they don't heed other peoples' opinions when it doesn't agree with theirs, even when it becomes apparent that the majority of opinions DO NOT agree with theirs...and they keep arguing their own opinion. The real post should have been "Let me state my views and if you agree with me, come in, because I don't want to hear anyone else's views". That would have saved a lot of trouble and time from other people who were sincerely trying to help.

Then comes the immaturity. Believe it or not, it gives a bigger picture into the situation, actually...without going into detail.

I have come onto this site and posted previously about situations that I was involved in, and wanted opinions...and I know that in some of them I thought I was right....but of course, most times, everyone thinks they are right and most times they are NOT right....but you need people from the outside to look in and help. Many times you need other voices to help you look at it from different angles and view different perspectives...that's what life is about. It's not all black and white unfortunately...there is a gray area...and other people can help you to see that...but then there are the posters with blinders on that only want to see their way, want to hear people state about their way...and tada! that is that.

This will be my only post in here. I will probably come on to read when I have time (in process of unpacking and take breaks during that)...but I don't repeat myself when people don't listen...and I am also too old (35) to deal with people who don't have time for anyone that aren't versions of themselves...so I won't post.

Have a good day everyone!
Actually, while I disagree with the majority who say is wasn't cheating because he'd checked out I do see the point but if they're right and I'm wrong, there never should have been a reconcilliation in the first place. My stance (and the biblical stance is) that if he checked out, he shouldn't have tried to check back in.

I've said repeatedly, if you justify the affair this way, then the lie is him coming back. Which is actually worse than it being an affair. Now I'm reduced to a motel you check in and out of at will and our marriage vows until I decide to leave and come back.

I don't disagree with the logic that he may have checked out, believed it was over and therfore had every right to be with whomever he wanted, except me in that case of course. I'm the one he checked out on. If he's done with me, he's done with me. There's not I'm done today so I'll be with whomever I want and change my mnd tomorrow. That makes things 10 times worse.

There sre some who are just so quick to disagree that they can't see that I do see the point. It just makes the situation worse not better.

And the issue I asked about the ignore feature for was being told he deserved the kids becasue I can't get past his girlfriend. That was uncalled for. I'm fully aware that my belief that marriage vows really are Until death do you part, is unusual. However, that is my beief and it's not a wrong belief. The majority can believe something like marriage vows are only until I file or until I leave or until I find soneone else but that's what they apply to their lives not what I apply to mine. Nothing here has convinced me I'm wrong in thinking marriage vows really are until death do us part. That is what we said before God.

So, even though a majority want to justify her because he'd checked out that doesn't change my beliefs. That doesn't fit with my belief that marriage really is until death do you part except for things like affairs. That does nullify everything. That's a breach of contract and we are given a way out on that one. I'm not expected to stay with a cheating spouse. BTW, the same bible I glean this from also says it is an abomination for a man to leave one wife, go to antoher and come back. In a case like that, it's over and cannot be reconciled.

What I disagree with is saying this is a forgivable offense. It's actually the less forgivable offense.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-09-2008 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
2,406 posts, read 4,564,584 times
Reputation: 1755
I would probably lose my feelings for my husband if he slept with another woman while we were married. Even if we were discussing divorce. An agreement is an agreement, and marriage is that. Until there was a clearly defined cut from the marriage, there is still room for reconciliation. Cheating, in my eyes is saying, we are 100% done. I would have a very hard time seeing past that, regardless of the situation.

And of course you shouldn't lose the children because you can't see past his girlfriend. I would not even give that comment the time of day, and not focus your energy on such absurdities any more.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:28 AM
Status: "Current ear worm - charming Billy..." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,728 posts, read 15,754,422 times
Reputation: 11345
Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00 View Post
I would probably lose my feelings for my husband if he slept with another woman while we were married. Even if we were discussing divorce. An agreement is an agreement, and marriage is that. Until there was a clearly defined cut from the marriage, there is still room for reconciliation. Cheating, in my eyes is saying, we are 100% done. I would have a very hard time seeing past that, regardless of the situation.

And of course you shouldn't lose the children because you can't see past his girlfriend. I would not even give that comment the time of day, and not focus your energy on such absurdities any more.
Thank you for your post. Few see that some of us see cheating as saying "I'm done with you" "I've moved on to something I think is better" especially done this way because he had actually moved out. That is tough to get past. I've lost respect for him, trust in him and feeling for him because of her. How do you proceed from there. Nothing anyone has posted here restores trust or respect and without those, how do you stay married?

IMO, the only one with the ability to nullify my marriage vows is the one we took them before and he's pretty specific that there are only a couple of things that put assunder what he has joined. One of them being cheating. I think I understand why that allowance was made.

I also have this horrible feeling that to accept this and stay means I bless it. If it's ok to leave and take up with someone else then come back, then why wouldn't it be ok to do that next year and the next year and the next year? once you declare being with someone else ok if you're "On a break", then all you have to do to be with someone else is delcare a break. If it's that simple, do we really have a marriage at all?

I digress.

Thanks for hte support. I was aware going in that my beliefs are different than most but I still believe they are right. At least right for me. What I was really looking for was a way to get past the affair. Something I hadn't thought of. While I hadn't thought of him thinking he was done so he could do what he wanted, that makes things worse not better. If the majority is right here, there's no marriage left to save.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-09-2008 at 05:42 AM..
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
2,406 posts, read 4,564,584 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Thank you for your post. Few see that some of us see cheating as saying "I'm done with you" "I've moved on to something I think is better". That is tough to get past. I've lost respect for him, trust in him and feeling for him because of her. How do you proceed from there. Nothing anyone has posted here restores trust or respect and without those, how do you stay married?

IMO, the only one with the ability to nullify my marriage vows is the one we took them before and he's pretty specific that there are only a couple of things that put assunder what he has joined. One of them being cheating. I think I understand why that allowance was made.
I understand how you feel and I would lose great respect and trust as well. I would have a very difficult time restoring trust and respect, and I imagine you see him with a new set of eyes.

At the same time, I can tell you that if I made that mistake, and cheated on my husband, he would not divorce me. I know this because though I never have, I have made mistakes, done stupid things, and my husband is never mad at me. He forgives me the minute I do something. I, on the other hand am not so forgiving, but it humbles me when he is because I see how loving he is towards me, how nonjudgmental, and how 100% accepting. He loves me more than my mistakes and can see past them.

Maybe you should ask yourself the same question. Do you love your husband more than his mistakes? Yes, he made a horrible one, but is your love stronger than your mistrust? Because you can learn to trust again and respect again, if he earns it from you. But as a whole, you have to see above and beyond this, and when you look at him you can not see him as the mistake he made, but as the person he is on a larger level.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:49 AM
Status: "Current ear worm - charming Billy..." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,728 posts, read 15,754,422 times
Reputation: 11345
Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00 View Post
I understand how you feel and I would lose great respect and trust as well. I would have a very difficult time restoring trust and respect, and I imagine you see him with a new set of eyes.

At the same time, I can tell you that if I made that mistake, and cheated on my husband, he would not divorce me. I know this because though I never have, I have made mistakes, done stupid things, and my husband is never mad at me. He forgives me the minute I do something. I, on the other hand am not so forgiving, but it humbles me when he is because I see how loving he is towards me, how nonjudgmental, and how 100% accepting. He loves me more than my mistakes and can see past them.

Maybe you should ask yourself the same question. Do you love your husband more than his mistakes? Yes, he made a horrible one, but is your love stronger than your mistrust? Because you can learn to trust again and respect again, if he earns it from you. But as a whole, you have to see above and beyond this, and when you look at him you can not see him as the mistake he made, but as the person he is on a larger level.
First we have to establish if it was a mistake or a deliberate and what the mistake was. The majority here hold it was a deliberate choice made out of his belief we were over and not a mistake at all. That he was justified in doing it because he had moved on. Then the mistake I'd need to forgive him for is coming back. If moving on justifies her, what justifies him deciding to move back? Is marriage something you can just change your mind about being in or out of? If so, why bother?

It's much easier to work from the he screwed up and never should have been with her stance than the he didn't screw up when he chose her because he had every right to and then changed his mind in my mind. They are totally different things.

I came here looking for some insight, that would fit with my beliefs, let's face it, I'm not going to abandon them., that would allow me to get past it. What I got was something that makes it many times worse in my mind and my belief structure. And I'm blasted for not accepting it. I wish I could say my belief system wouldn't allow me to see it at all because I was better off before this one got tossed in. The door was open before to decide to forgive, renew our broken vows like he wants and move on. Now why bother? All vows mean is Until I believe we're on a break and take up with someone else if she's justifiable this way. If that's all they mean, it's not worth going through the motions.

Matters are compounded because he will not talk about it. He's never said she was a mistake. Only justified her by saying "I was lonely" "I thought we were through" so what he says fits with what the majority say here. That all you have to do is declare a break and you can have whomever you want and it can't be held against you. I can't go there. I just think marriage vows should mean more than that.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-09-2008 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
10,593 posts, read 21,833,410 times
Reputation: 6050
Back to the ignore feature, I use the ignore feature for a few wackaloons who are chronic around here. They know who they are.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:29 AM
 
1,072 posts, read 1,547,405 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Actually, while I disagree with the majority who say is wasn't cheating because he'd checked out I do see the point but if they're right and I'm wrong, there never should have been a reconcilliation in the first place. My stance (and the biblical stance is) that if he checked out, he shouldn't have tried to check back in.

I've said repeatedly, if you justify the affair this way, then the lie is him coming back. Which is actually worse than it being an affair. Now I'm reduced to a motel you check in and out of at will and our marriage vows until I decide to leave and come back.

I don't disagree with the logic that he may have checked out, believed it was over and therfore had every right to be with whomever he wanted, except me in that case of course. I'm the one he checked out on. If he's done with me, he's done with me. There's not I'm done today so I'll be with whomever I want and change my mnd tomorrow. That makes things 10 times worse.

There sre some who are just so quick to disagree that they can't see that I do see the point. It just makes the situation worse not better.

And the issue I asked about the ignore feature for was being told he deserved the kids becasue I can't get past his girlfriend. That was uncalled for. I'm fully aware that my belief that marriage vows really are Until death do you part, is unusual. However, that is my beief and it's not a wrong belief. The majority can believe something like marriage vows are only until I file or until I leave or until I find soneone else but that's what they apply to their lives not what I apply to mine. Nothing here has convinced me I'm wrong in thinking marriage vows really are until death do us part. That is what we said before God.

So, even though a majority want to justify her because he'd checked out that doesn't change my beliefs. That doesn't fit with my belief that marriage really is until death do you part except for things like affairs. That does nullify everything. BTW, the same bible I glean this from also says it is an abomination for a man to leave one wife, go to antoher and come back. In a case like that, it's over and cannot be reconciled.

What I disagree with is saying this is a forgivable offense. It's actually the less forgivable offense.
IVORY said: "If he's done with me, he's done with me. There's not I'm done today so I'll be with whomever I want and change my mnd tomorrow (by going back to you). "

I agree -what's done SHOULD be considered done, but unfortunately, your soontobeex does not see it that way. So what's important is HOW you will handle this situation, because apparently, you and him do NOT see "a done deal" the same way. I also agree that what he did CAN be considered an EMOTIONAL breach of contract, even though in the LEGAL sense, it's not.

IVORY said: "And the issue I asked about the ignore feature for was being told he deserved the kids becasue I can't get past his girlfriend."

I don't agree with this -- I don't think anyone said HE deserved the kids because you cannot get past the girlfriend (and I hope you no longer FEEL that way, that you no longer feel that you're living under the shadow -- I mean come on, do you really want to give his then-rebound-girlfriend THAT much power over you?). But you do NEED to get past the fact that he emotionally breached your marriage contract, either by divorce, or by reconciling, because being stuck does not get you anywhere you want to be, except to leave you with anger that continues to eat you up.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:32 AM
Status: "Current ear worm - charming Billy..." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,728 posts, read 15,754,422 times
Reputation: 11345
"I don't think anyone said HE deserved the kids because you cannot get past the girlfriend "

You need to read pirate girl's posts to me.
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:25 PM
 
1,072 posts, read 1,547,405 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
"I don't think anyone said HE deserved the kids because you cannot get past the girlfriend "

You need to read pirate girl's posts to me.
I think you meant this post by PIRATEGIRL:

"Best I can tell, the blame is 50/50 for this situation.

He left. +1 for him

You filed for divorce before his side of the bed was cold. + 1 for you

He dated someone else. +1 for him

You cancelled the divorce and reconciled. +1 for you

He came home and has been trying to be a good husband. +1 for him

You can't let go of what you helped to perpetuate and move forward. +1 for you



You have to accept some of the blame for what has happened in your marriage but you refuse to recognize that.

I think your husband, who has been trying to get healthy and work things out would be better off without you. You seem to be a pair of cement boots that will continue weighing him down.

From what you've said, he has moved forward and made progress this year. You, on the other hand, have not. You are living in the past, dwelling on something that you are partially responsible for. You come across as bitter and angry, whereas he seems to want to put that period of time behind him and work on your marriage.

If your hostility and inability to forgive is as clear in person as it is on this board, it would not surprise me if he ends up with custody of the kids. Your description of him tells me that he's a man who has tried and has been successful in making positive changes in his life.

The same cannot be said of you."

I don't think she meant that your husband WILL get the custody, BUT, based on her own professional experience (if you re-read her posts AFTER this one above), you will see that she has seen such events where the bitter parents lost custody of the kids to the parents (that were supposedly the "bad spouses") because (for reasons only known to those involved in the custody party) the judges felt that the anger (from the bitterness) consumed so much of the bitter parents AND the bitter parents showed SO MUCH anger in court that the judges felt that it would be safer for the kids to end up with the other parents (who were the "perpetrators who breached the marriage", etc.).

She was simply warning you that, no matter HOW ANGRY you are at him, you should show your cool head in court and not show as much anger as you are showing on here.

Remember, it's not what the other parties that matter, it's how YOU react to those parties that matters.
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,310 posts, read 20,615,658 times
Reputation: 6633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren View Post
Back to the ignore feature, I use the ignore feature for a few wackaloons who are chronic around here. They know who they are.
Lindsey... You look soooooooooooooo beautiful today. I just want to wear your skin... Just for a little while...
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