Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-12-2008, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
6,883 posts, read 11,214,122 times
Reputation: 10792

Advertisements

With all the media coverage today, I'm surprised the Edwards affair didn't come out sooner and looking back, I can't believe he ran for President after all that.

After the Clinton fiasco (and it could have been handled so much better), my children set in a classroom in their high school and dissected the news article when it came out. That, I think, was wrong and it does desensitize people, especially those that are young. (I am talking about the fact he went on national TV about it). It was made so public. I mean, way TMI.

(Kids' attitude: What's so wrong - the President did it??) Wow, to be a parent. That was hard.

Our country is in deep trouble when we care more about a celeb's life than the direction of this country.

When someone as intelligent and as put together as John Edwards made such an error in judgment, how would he have run our country? I still feel sorry for his family, money or no money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-12-2008, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
[quote=SanAntoQT;4827684]
Quote:
Whoa, creme! No need to get your knickers in knot! I'm trying to understand how anyone can presume to know what goes on within a marriage that the rest of the world doesn't see. That.is.all.
my knickers are not in a knot...I just explained how I feel on the subject...simply having a very calm conversation with you...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: USA
1,244 posts, read 3,220,792 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Then we have Christianity, which is the dominant religion in the US. Sex is not acceptable in the bible except for procreate. The original sin was eating the forbidden fruit, an apple. Jesus was conceived immaculately. And you have Catholic nuns and priests "married" to their faith and not allowed to have sex... and it's not natural and that is why we've had those scandals with pedophile priests. And I'm sure that there's a lot more sexual transgressions that were never discovered or revealed.
I have to disagree with you on this. In the bible sex is fully acceptable for reasons other than merely procreation. The only way sex is not acceptable is outside of marriage. I.E. Fornication. However, within marriage, there is nothing in the bible that states it is for procreation purposes alone and nothing more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
[quote=mari4him;4828834][quote=cremebrulee;4827804]


I so enjoyed your points of view, not to mention, you've given me much to think about...thanks mari4him...

you should be a writer, wish I could explain myself as well as you.

hugs
creme
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:06 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 54,049,794 times
Reputation: 46669
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
I was disappointed to hear about John Edwards having an affair, but really surprised me was the way others have reacted. It seems like a lot of people aren't surprised or that disappointed. I guess we hear about people cheating so much these days that it's no longer a big deal. I often wonder why people cheat and sometimes I think they do it because we as a culture don't seem to condemn it as harshly as we used to. I used to be friends with someone who cheated on his wife. When I found out, I couldn't be friends with him anymore cause it's hard to be friends with someone you can't respect. I also couldn't look at him without thinking how he deliberately hurt his wife. But my other friends thought I was being too hard on him. Some even said it's OK that he cheated. I was appalled, but it seems like people make light of infidelity.
I think the blase attitude has a lot more to do with the fact that John Edwards cheated than Joe Blow down the street. I mean look at the guy. The hair, the metrosexual good lucks, the fan club of middle aged women just dying to swoon out of their polyester pants suits for him. The fawning adulation and the position of power (Which to many women is a 100% effective aphrodisiac). So, yeah, who IS surprised by it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
There have been a number of women in the news recently who have been cheated on. Elizabeth Edwards, Silda Spitzer, and Hillary Clinton. People always ask why they stay. In the case of Clinton, I think it's pretty simple. She wanted to run for President someday and had to decide whether her chances would be better if she stayed with Bill or dumped him. And it's pretty obvious that staying with Bill helps her. First, he helps with fundraising cause he has lots of political allies and no one can raise money the way a popular ex-President can. Second, having an ex-President backing you up helps anytime someone questions your readiness to lead. Third, his popularity and likability could carry over to her. A lot of people admit that the reason they supported her is cause they really wanted him back in The White House. Now imagine if she dumped him. Do you really think America would elect a divorced woman President? How long before people start saying she's a lesbian? In American politics, there are two things every presidential candidate has to be, even though they're completely irrelevant to the job. Married and Christian.
Denny, I agree whole heartidly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: USA
1,244 posts, read 3,220,792 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
There have been a number of women in the news recently who have been cheated on. Elizabeth Edwards, Silda Spitzer, and Hillary Clinton. People always ask why they stay. In the case of Clinton, I think it's pretty simple. She wanted to run for President someday and had to decide whether her chances would be better if she stayed with Bill or dumped him. And it's pretty obvious that staying with Bill helps her. First, he helps with fundraising cause he has lots of political allies and no one can raise money the way a popular ex-President can. Second, having an ex-President backing you up helps anytime someone questions your readiness to lead. Third, his popularity and likability could carry over to her. A lot of people admit that the reason they supported her is cause they really wanted him back in The White House. Now imagine if she dumped him. Do you really think America would elect a divorced woman President? How long before people start saying she's a lesbian? In American politics, there are two things every presidential candidate has to be, even though they're completely irrelevant to the job. Married and Christian.
What her reasons for staying with him were really is nothing more than speculation either way for any of us. Only she truly knows that. However, while I don't doubt whatsoever that she long ago had decided in her mind that she would one day want to run for president, I don't know how much that would have weighed upon her decision to stay or not. While yes a lot of people still supported Clinton despite his infidelity issues, there were also many that did not. One can look at that she has the followers who were loyal to Clinton backing her up in her campaign, however, at the cost of how many others too. Perhaps even many of the women who like some here see her as weak because she stayed. It is actually like a double edge sword which cuts both ways when you think about. Whichever decision she would make would gain her and cost her popularity.

I also agree with you that there were many people who backed her up because they wanted Clinton back in the White House. But like I mentioned before, there were also many that did not because they didn't want another run of the infidelity scandals that could ensue as a result. Furthermore, there were even many, who truly wanted her in the White House, despite the fact that it meant they would have to tolerate having him in there too. Basically, for each view there is another that is possibly equally as strong.

Personally, I was leaning in the Hilary direction though I was still undecided and I am not ashamed to say so. My reasoning was basically upon the fact that I think the nation was doing rather well when Clinton was in the White House. The best as far as I can remember in my lifetime at least. No, I don't approve of his actions as a husband and what he did. But in my opinion, he was a darn good president. I also believe that he and Hilary worked far more as a team than many people would imagine. I felt that given the condition our economy is in right now and the situation in the middle east, I could see some major improvements in both area's with the Clintons back in the White House.

Do I have to agree with his straying or her staying, no I don't and personally I will never agree or condone the fact that he strayed outside of his marriage. But unfortunately that is what it has become so very common now a days, where even the most prestigious couple that looks altogether and perfectly in love and united could result in scandals of their own with god knows what kind of skeletons in their closet that will be exposed later on. We have to look at the whole picture when it comes to our candidates.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:17 PM
 
Location: USA
1,244 posts, read 3,220,792 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I so enjoyed your points of view, not to mention, you've given me much to think about...thanks mari4him...

you should be a writer, wish I could explain myself as well as you.

hugs
creme
Thanks. That's what I love about discussions like these. I feel they are good when we can all walk away with something to think about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2008, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, TN
8,002 posts, read 18,585,048 times
Reputation: 12357
Creme, your post is quite long and I could spend all night responding to each sentence, but I don't have the time.

Of course this country is on a moral decline, as soon as people starting throwing huge baby showers for teenagers I knew we were doomed - but that's a whole other thread.

And I am not ignoring my future, my children are learning from my husband and I and the example that we set for them. The example their grandparents have set for them. I learned from my parents and my husband learned from his parents about how to love and have a healthy relationships. My brothers are all married, and all to the same women and they have never cheated. We have an extremely close family and our parents taught us right from wrong. We had a great role models to follow. So my children are going to learn from what they see in our household on a daily basis and when they get out into the world they will know what is right and what is wrong and they can choose at that point what path they will take.

Finally, I'm just going to respond to the Hillary Clinton part. I'm going to use her as an example for all women or men who have been cheated on.

Again, why does she HAVE TO LEAVE him? Because you and I and others think he is a jerk. It's not up to us, it is up to HER and her only. It's almost like you and/or others think it should be a LAW that if someone cheats they MUST get divorced. We can't grab hillary, put her in cuffs and drag her down to the courthouse for a divorce because the cheating has upset US?? Force women and men to divorce because "WE" are upset by the infidelities? It is her life and I have no say in what she does with it. Maybe she stayed for political reasons, maybe she stayed because she loves him and doesn't want to leave him.

Seriously, there are more pressing issues in this world and in my own community that I would rather hear about on the 5:00 news. Instead I get 24 hour news reports about Lewinsky's BJ and ejaculation on her dress.

The following quotes are more of what I feel:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mari4him View Post
I do believe America is desensitized when it comes to cheating and the affects it has on the family and society in general. However, I disagree that a politician's wife, who chooses to stay with her husband, is a sign of weakness or because of the pull they can receive from their spouse.

Many women, who are not politician's wives, choose to forgive and stay in their marriages after an infidelity occurs. Their reasons are their own and sometimes carry nothing behind if as far as a pull they can receive.

I disagree that Hilary staying with Clinton was a sign of weakness, I think it took great character to go against what society would have expected her to do and stand by her marriage. I think she does rather well for herself and don't think she needs Clinton at all to be honest. Yet even years after he is no longer president, they remain together. Granted, we have no idea what goes on truly behind those closed doors, but the point is she could leave him at anytime and stand on her own two feet. She has a name of her own and doesn't need him to carry her at all. She stays because she wants to. Period.

Sadly, infidelity is just way too common and I do believe it is often treated with a slap on the wrist. That being said. If a wife, or a husband, chooses to forgive their spouse for their infidelity, that is a private matter between the two of them and something they need to work out for themselves. We don't live in anyone elses house but our own, so what exactly goes on behind those doors is really unknown to us. Some spouses will immediately kick the other out under such circumstances, that is their personal choice, not a sign of weekness or strength in my opinion, just a personal conviction that they choose to act out on. Some spouses, on the contrary, choose to stick it out and try to forgive and work through it, again, not a sign of weakness or strength, just a personal conviction that they too choose to act out on.

In my opinion, having been cheated on before and doing the forgiveness thing, I think the easiest thing is to kick them out and move forward in life, the difficult thing is staying in the relationship, finding the ability to forgive and move forward, trying to overcome the hurt, the betrayal, and trying to rebuild from there. That speaks a lot to me about a person's character and how they take their vows of for better or for worse, in good times and bad, easy or hard. Just because one spouse broke the vow with regards to forsaking all others, doesn't mean that two wrongs always make a right by the other now breaking the vows by not trying to make it work.

There have been relationships where one spouse has cheated, they have stayed together and it has worked out and the cheating has not occured again. A lesson learned I guess you can say. There have also been relationships where this is not the case and either they have not stayed together or they have and the cheating has continued. I just think that it is a very personal decision, with no right or wrong answer to it. The only right answer is whatever is right for the two people involved. They are the one's that have to live with the decision, and of course, any children that may be the innocent bystanders in the whole mix.

Personally, I do see infidelity as a big deal. I'm just not going to judge the spouse who was cheated on as being strong or weak in character for how they choose to handle the situation once it has occured in their marriage. It is way too personal a decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanAntoQT View Post
This is exactly what I'm saying, mari4him. While I wouldn't put up with it, I don't fault anyone else who is willing to forgive and move on. Maybe those of us who would give up on a marriage for such indiscretion are the weak ones because we choose not to expose ourselves to humiliation (in some case, public humiliation) or just have no desire to work things out. Who knows? For me, it's just easier to leave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanAntoQT View Post
Creme, I agree with you that cheating is not acceptable behavior, however, I believe when someone who is directly affected by it chooses to work their way through it with the offending party, it is their business, not mine nor anyone else's. This was what I was trying to point out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanAntoQT View Post
Creme, I agree with you that cheating is not acceptable behavior, however, I believe when someone who is directly affected by it chooses to work their way through it with the offending party, it is their business, not mine nor anyone else's. This was what I was trying to point out.

ahhh, yes, I understand and agree...but, once someone takes an office, or is in the limelight...the point I was trying to make, is....they represent the people, and what they do with their lives, has an effect upon the people. The person who is in office, has a duty to the people to do a respectable job...he is being paid by us (our taxes) and if he makes an error, either moral or anything else against the law, I do believe it becomes our business...does that make any sense? He has a moral responsiblity to make certain, for the time he is in office to be efficent, productive and respectable.

Creme
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:08 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top