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Old 10-18-2008, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,514,730 times
Reputation: 11780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkle toes sledgehammer View Post
My opinion,

I've never been married. Most of my family and friends have gotten married. I have witnessed the best possible scenario and the worst. More often it's the worst and when it's bad, it's mostly bad for the man.

I've witnessed countless comments made by women that they expect to be taken care of and they don't want to work for a living and want to stay home and raise kids. Most men today cannot accomplish that because it takes more than the median American income of $32,000-38,000 a year to raise a family and pay a mortgage. I think a good number of these women want a divorce because they realize this man isn't going to be able to take care of her.

Also, what I've notice is, the more attractive the woman is, the more likely she is to divorce when the overall situation isn't going her way. Nearly ALL of the friends and family who's relationships failed involved a good looking woman walking away and on the other side of it, nearly all of the relationships that have stood the test of time, the woman is, well, overweight and not very attractive looking but have wonderful personalities and are awesome people.

I could not figure why a man in today's world would want to get married. Seriously. I've stayed single after watching the devastation and aftermath from divorce and how it's wrecked the lives of my male friends and my own younger brother.

Here is the type of picture the media paints of divorces by constantly giving attention to extreme cases:
1. Father abuses kids and mom.
2. Mom risks life to escape and stays in a battered woman's shelter.
3. Mom finds an attorney to file the divorce papers.
4. Father is not allowed to see kids but refuses to pay child support.
5. Woman ends up on welfare and busts her butt to keep life going.

Now, how often does that happen? It's actually pretty rare. Down in the 1-2% percentile of divorces and child custody cases where actual proof exists against the father. Because the media has made such a huge thing over these cases, the legal world has been forced to adopt special laws and rights for women exclusively that can ruin a man's life without any evidence having been presented and without any trial.

Here is a common theme for MOST divorces in this country that you won't see shown by the media:
1. Wife doesn't have the life she wants and the husband is a nice pushover guy who tries hard but doesn't always succeed in getting raises so that the wife can stay home.
or
2. Either or both spouses have cheated and driven the marriage apart through infidelity.
3. Divorce is usually filed by the wife (70% of the time). The reason why? That's coming now. It's largely because the man PAYS greatly for a divorce while the women is usually given everything.
4. Divorce. If a man doesn't move quickly to try and bring in a divorce couselor and negotiate a fair separation of assets and child custody division as well as negate child support or alimony, he will get fleeced of everything he built in the marriage, including the kids.
5. Most men are good fathers and want half of the custody of the kids. You would think that by having the kids half the time, that would mean you don't have to pay child support, right? WRONG!

If a divorce couselor specialist isn't brought in and these things worked out and the wife signs an agreement right away, the courts will later demand that a custodial parent be selected and that person is always the mother, unless the father can show she's a mental case, alcoholic, drug abusing party girl, and even THEN I knew a woman who's husband brought that proof against her and she STILL won custody! UNREAL!

As a man, if you don't move immediately before divorce is filed to reconcile, you could be blindsided with some really f'd up circumstances. Did you know because of the laws on the books, a woman can take the kids in the dead of night out of town, file a restraining order against you that will be upheld without even a hearing and then get sole custody sumarily awarded without a hearing? It not only happens but quite a bit. Did you know that when a woman consults a divorce attorney that the attorney is legally obligated to tell the woman she can do all of these things? That's right. The attorney can be sued for not advising each female client that she can literally LIE, take the kids, run, and win automatic custody and setup a winning divorce case against her husband.

Thankfully, most women don't go to that extreme but there are cases of cold and calculating women that do these things because it ensures she will win. Women really don't have to go that far anyway. The court is setup to cater to all women and to punish men. The more successful you are in life, the more you need to pay attention to this and don't get married and don't have kids. You'll pay for either choice. If you are broke and have little to no success, then go ahead and get married, have kids. The court can't make you pay if you are a loser and a deadbeat. Is it any wonder the birthrate of the poor outnumber all other sectors of the country? Because successful men are punished unfairly by courts and when that happens, it scares off other successful men from making a family.

Men have noticed the trend. Let's say hypothetically a male co-worker had to witness Bob at work go through a divorce, then losing custody of his kids and being relegated to being a part-time dad, then on top of that have his paycheck garnished to the point where he can't pay his bills or live a normal life. When you see that happen to a buddy, as I did (just 3 weeks ago the guy that sits at the cubical next to me was looking destroyed because the court handed custody of his daughter to his ex, to see him sit there in a frightened blank face trying to figure out how he's going to live when the child support payments slice and dice his 32k a year salary down to 22k a year and in addition he will only be able to see his daughter part time), and to witness your brother going through alternative avenues to try and protect himself from divorce courts gone wild, well, you start seeing marriage as something to be feared, not wanted.

Not only that but if you are a man who is unlucky enough to make more money than your wife, she can take not only half the house's value, half your cars, half your life savings but also have the courts pick your pocket further for alimony payments and grossly inflated child support payments (even if you have the kids half of the time!). My brother got a divorce counselor and STILL ended up having to pay some child support and alimony, but luckily got that amount greatly reduced from what the courts would have taken. Now that he has her signature on an agreed half-time custody and an agreed support/alimony amount, it's unlikely she can re-negotiate it higher. So, the divorce counselor saved him from what the courts would have done to him.

Now, everytime I fantasize about how beautiful a marriage can be, I remind myself of the above lack of rights fathers and men have in divorces but also, more than 50% of marriages end in divorce and 70% of them are filed by the woman. That is enough to keep me a bachelor until the laws are changed to be more fair to men.
I can't comment on most of this post, but I agree with one central assertion: Divorce courts and the "family" court system are overwhelmingly biased against men.

 
Old 10-18-2008, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,583,889 times
Reputation: 257
I have seen many men stay in the worst possible marriages, primarily due to money. I am a woman and yet, it blows me away how some of these women think that a man doesn't deserve a life after they split. I've seen women take these guys to court year after year after year always wanting more. And the guys talk and talk a lot, about how broke they are now and exactly how much the ex got. Most commonly, their are children involved. I think a lot of guys are afraid to leave and will put up with an awful lot as a result.

I really hate to down women but I sure have seen several get vicious.

It's not to say that the woman doesn't deserve something and she certainly deserves help with the children. But many seem to get carried away and the judges often work on their behalf.

Wow, I'm sure not gonna score brownie points with women on this one am I?
 
Old 10-18-2008, 09:32 PM
 
2,222 posts, read 10,618,128 times
Reputation: 3328
eastidahomom, don't worry about it. I have seen both sides. Men take women and women take men. Sorry, but I think it's the truth.

I don't like it either way. I feel there should be an element of fairness to all things. But who said life is fair.
 
Old 10-18-2008, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,583,889 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth56 View Post
eastidahomom, don't worry about it. I have seen both sides. Men take women and women take men. Sorry, but I think it's the truth.

I don't like it either way. I feel there should be an element of fairness to all things. But who said life is fair.
Don't apologize. I was one of those "taken" and for quite the ride I might add. Maybe that's why I'm sympathetic to some of those men. I do see it far more often with men then with women.
 
Old 10-19-2008, 04:34 PM
 
3 posts, read 7,876 times
Reputation: 10
In my opnion,

Child support payments should be done like taxes are done. The ex-wife should have to save either bank records or store receipts to show how much the grocery bill was, how much clothings costs were, how much the established rent portion should be, etc. Present that to the local welfare/child support office and then a bill of that EXACT AMOUNT is sent to the father or deducted from his check. THAT is a fair system. The reality is that these child support payments are often used by women for the kids but with plenty left over to pay for what she wants for herself. The men are often times having the kids a significant amount of time, buying his kids clothes himself and feeding them at his place. These expenses aren't calculated to reduce his support payments. He pays these in addition to the support payments and it's utterly fricken SICK to see that happen to good men who do backflips financially just to be a part of their children's lives.

A good number of deadbeat dads don't pay because they don't make enough money to pay the support and survive themselves. Some would have paychecks garnished, so they go to work for cash under the table like an illegal immigrant in order to survive. Their stories are NEVER told on television in the mainstream media. I would like 60 minutes or any other liberal feminist news network to actually take a random 10 men and do a full report on why they are deadbeat dads. What amount they make, what amount the court wants for support, and how much he actually is expected to live on. Then go over to the ex's house and ask if they can have a copy of her expenses and income, then compare things and see if the deadbeat dad has a reason for his problems. We all know these men are out there who got put into a no-win situation financially by the courts and it amounts to literally putting the father on the street or having to live with his parents or having to work secretly to survive. There are even those guys who work under the table and occasionally take what cash they can and give it to their ex-wife, but it can't ever be enough to match what the court demanded.

What's worse is, this man will have to continue to live this way for the rest of his life because as soon as he gets a job, the state welfare office will begin deducting back support plus interest. This man will never have a normal life unless he either works two jobs or gets a high paying job at some point.

Now imagine if you will, this poor guy, living in a bad neighborhood, making small wages under the table, cannot see his kids because he can't pay the support, having a miserable life with an impossible child support debt on his back, while his ex-wife now has a new man and a two-income household and also collects the nice welfare check from the state. Getting to see the picture? This is the case in A LOT of California deadbeat father situations. The media wouldn't even have to look hard to find this very scenario as it is very common. The men that manage to still work and pay the support often either have to find a new girlfriend with an income of her own or move in with his parents. It's those choices or the street or immigrant labor jobs and deadbeat dad status. It's criminal that this happens but it does. The courts are terrible in that regard and the media turns a blind eye to the situation.

Last edited by twinkle toes sledgehammer; 10-19-2008 at 04:52 PM..
 
Old 10-19-2008, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,583,889 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkle toes sledgehammer View Post
In my opnion,

Child support payments should be done like taxes are done. The ex-wife should have to save either bank records or store receipts to show how much the grocery bill was, how much clothings costs were, how much the established rent portion should be, etc. Present that to the local welfare/child support office and then a bill of that EXACT AMOUNT is sent to the father or deducted from his check. THAT is a fair system. The reality is that these child support payments are often used by women for the kids but with plenty left over to pay for what she wants for herself. The men are often times having the kids a significant amount of time, buying his kids clothes himself and feeding them at his place. These expenses aren't calculated to reduce his support payments. He pays these in addition to the support payments and it's utterly fricken SICK to see that happen to good men who do backflips financially just to be a part of their children's lives.

A good number of deadbeat dads don't pay because they don't make enough money to pay the support and survive themselves. Some would have paychecks garnished, so they go to work for cash under the table like an illegal immigrant in order to survive. Their stories are NEVER told on television in the mainstream media. I would like 60 minutes or any other liberal feminist news network to actually take a random 10 men and do a full report on why they are deadbeat dads. What amount they make, what amount the court wants for support, and how much he actually is expected to live on. Then go over to the ex's house and ask if they can have a copy of her expenses and income, then compare things and see if the deadbeat dad has a reason for his problems. We all know these men are out there who got put into a no-win situation financially by the courts and it amounts to literally putting the father on the street or having to live with his parents or having to work secretly to survive. There are even those guys who work under the table and occasionally take what cash they can and give it to their ex-wife, but it can't ever be enough to match what the court demanded.

What's worse is, this man will have to continue to live this way for the rest of his life because as soon as he gets a job, the state welfare office will begin deducting back support plus interest. This man will never have a normal life unless he either works two jobs or gets a high paying job at some point.
Well I'd split it up some. If they have 3 children for example, how about each throw in a 1/3 of their income. Pro-rate it like you would rent to determine who pays what amount. It took two to make the children and it takes two to support them.
 
Old 10-19-2008, 04:52 PM
 
139 posts, read 722,431 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy22 View Post
Statistics show it is much more likely for the wife
to file for divorce 70% to 30% for the husband.
Why is this ?
Family courts tend to favor women both financially and in terms of custodial decisions. This serves as an incentive for women to proceed with a divorce, and serves as a deterrent for men.

Given these deterrents it's surprising even 30% of the time it's the men! Maybe men are actually unhappier in marriages across the board than are women, but given the legal obstacles intrinsic to divorce, they don't file as freely as women do.

Ironically, though, it's usually the women who suffer long term after a divorce, financially and in terms of their likelihood to remarry.
 
Old 10-19-2008, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
2,383 posts, read 6,042,220 times
Reputation: 1141
I know women who cannot collect child support because as soon as the man gets a legal job, he stops working a few months later. It takes time for the government to come in, find you, and deduct money from your pay check. This is a huge loop hole for men and women to get through without paying support. My ex sends child support for our daughter and it is not NEARLY enough to cover half or her expenses. I got the short end of the stick financially. When we were going through our divorce, he would not agree to pay for half of her college tuition when the time rolls around! SCUMBAG!!!
 
Old 10-19-2008, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,393,971 times
Reputation: 14692
My guess would be that men don't want to be seen as abandoning their wives. My SIL filed 18 months after her ex left. He wasn't going to file yet he left her for another woman. I filed when my husband left. He said he had no intention of filing. He just moved out and on with his life. He left it to me to file. He'd leave but he didn't want to be the one who actually ended the marriage.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,500,101 times
Reputation: 11081
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I filed and paid because my ex couldn't afford it. I even put in the separation agreement that NO child support would be paid by him until the divorce was final. I would rather not get anything from him, than fight over money and have any negative impact on our son. And guess what? We didn't divorce until FIVE years later. Now tell me who made out??

If you stick it out that long...why divorce at all?
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