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Flog a dead horse much? Filing is paperwork, nothing more, and someone's gotta do it. The reason women file is because men procrastinate. Not always, but that's usually it. Other times, the man leaves thinking he can see if there is "something better" out there and that he can come back if there isn't, but by then the woman is over it.
That's the point - nobody's gotta do it. Women file because they want to do it. They know they'll ultimately get the better part of the divorce deal.
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And not for nothing, but I've seen my friends' marriages unravel. Over and over, I hear, "I have tried everything I know to get through to him." They talk. They fight. They bargain. They back off. They take control. They give up control. They talk again. They withdraw. They hover. They talk again. They cry. They beg to be heard. They plead for change. They make threats. They scream. They talk, and talk, and talk. It goes on for a year, maybe two, and then one day, they had enough.
Sorry to generalize, but denial and the tendency to take a spouse for granted runs strong in men, and enabling runs strong in women. So in the end, you have women forgiving and compromising, to the point where the men don't think the women are serious. "Oh, she'll get over it."
If you're sorry to generalize, why are you doing it? I think either sex can be guilty of these things. I get so tired of hearing how all these married women who want divorce are these saintly martyrs.
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They think their wives won't leave them.
Until they do.
You don't get it, do you? If you are going to understand how difficult it is, you should look at the few cases when the women loses her children, and only gets visitation.Those women go into depression even if they aren't paying child support. Those women actually handle the situation a lot worse than the majority of men who experience the same.
For men you first get punished and won't be able to see your kids. Then you have to provide extra money for the children you are not able to see. Many of these men would pay extra to see their kids. But in court of law it is the other way. If you loses, then you have to pay more if you are not able to see your kids. Its like a double punishment. And to top it off you are forced to pay your wife alimony so she can keep up her standard of living. If she cheated on you and got a children with another man, you still have to pay child support and alimony.
Its absolutely horrible, and I am really happy I am not getting married in America. I am from Norway, and in Norway 50/50 is quite normal. If you don't get that, then you will get 40/60. Also, alimony only exists in a few cases, and only for a few years.
So she was nice. But she had the power to screw him over. And many women do.
Other reasons it is harder for men is because their support network is weaker, and more women initiate divorce. A lot of men wouldn't dare to initiate a divorce, because the courts will screw them over.
That's the point - nobody's gotta do it. Women file because they want to do it. They know they'll ultimately get the better part of the divorce deal.
I certainly got the better part of the divorce deal. He didn't pay child support regularly or anything, but that was still cheaper than not having to support his lazy drunk ass when he kept losing jobs or storage and repairs for the cars he kept cracking up. He got stuck having to face finding a way to feed and house himself, poor bastid.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
If you're sorry to generalize, why are you doing it? I think either sex can be guilty of these things. I get so tired of hearing how all these married women who want divorce are these saintly martyrs.
We divorce because we don't want to be saintly martyrs anymore.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Why do they want to leave? That's the question.
Because I'd invested too many years of my life into this marriage and it had become apparent that you just didn't care about us or our child. Because I was 41 and it had become apparent that you weren't going to clean your act up so we could have another child or buy a house or contribute to the family income or childcare or household chores so there really wasn't much point to a marriage anymore when I was the only one actually participating. Because I was tired of hearing about "someday" and "give me some time" and "cut me some slack" after ten years of waiting for someday and giving time and cutting slack. Because when I pressed you for the last time to shape up or leave, you threatened to take our child and disappear and that I would never see her again. That last part got you a police escort out of the house.
For some reason, people are interpreting my statement as if I am blaming women for divorces. THAT WAS NOT MY POINT AT ALL. I agree 100% with everything you are saying. What part of what I said put the blame on women?
Then what was the point?
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Originally Posted by Lucario
That's the point - nobody's gotta do it. Women file because they want to do it. They know they'll ultimately get the better part of the divorce deal.
Oh, b.s. If a couple separates and wants to go their separate ways, someone has to file. In my state there had to be a plaintiff and a defendant. That's just how the law was. And it has nothing to do with allegedly knowing about allegedly getting the better part of a divorce deal. Like many women, I personally knew that if I left it to my ex, it would have taken him months, if not years, to get off his arse and do it, so I did it. This is something I hear from other women all the time.
Maybe the question is more why men don't get off their arses and file, themselves? Could it be that they don't take their wives seriously, and think the lil missus is only just "being emotional?" Or could it be that they figure they'll enjoy their separation and screw everything that moves, then come home to the cook and maid when they're done?
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Originally Posted by Lucario
If you're sorry to generalize, why are you doing it? I think either sex can be guilty of these things. I get so tired of hearing how all these married women who want divorce are these saintly martyrs.
How convenient of you to ignore the other posts on here talking about how situations where it was reversed. There was one shortly after mine where a man described exactly such a reversal. Of course it's possible. I'm sure it happens often, and if you've ever read anything I've ever written on here about divorce, you would know that I am the first person to say, again and again and again, that it takes to to make or break a marriage. It's never just one person's fault. I also went so far as to talk about women tending to enable in my first post in this very thread.
And how convenient of you to ignore all of the posts throughout this subforum wherein men complain about how conniving their ex-wives are and extrapolate that out to the entire adult female population. You know, like you pretty much did with your ridiculous comment that women "know they will ultimately get the better part of the divorce deal." I know I certainly didn't--heck, the entire marriage was very costly for me--and neither did any of the countless women out there who ever had to haul an ex into court to get him to support his own children.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Why do they want to leave? That's the question.
Already answered that in spades. You just choose to ignore it to suit your own agenda.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I certainly got the better part of the divorce deal. He didn't pay child support regularly or anything, but that was still cheaper than not having to support his lazy drunk ass when he kept losing jobs or storage and repairs for the cars he kept cracking up. He got stuck having to face finding a way to feed and house himself, poor bastid.
We divorce because we don't want to be saintly martyrs anymore.
Because I'd invested too many years of my life into this marriage and it had become apparent that you just didn't care about us or our child. Because I was 41 and it had become apparent that you weren't going to clean your act up so we could have another child or buy a house or contribute to the family income or childcare or household chores so there really wasn't much point to a marriage anymore when I was the only one actually participating. Because I was tired of hearing about "someday" and "give me some time" and "cut me some slack" after ten years of waiting for someday and giving time and cutting slack. Because when I pressed you for the last time to shape up or leave, you threatened to take our child and disappear and that I would never see her again. That last part got you a police escort out of the house.
Lilac110’s points are all well-taken. If children are involved, and the husband deems his entire role to be limited to material sustenance of the household, while the wife both works outside of the home AND carries preponderance of responsibility for raising the children, indeed the husband is taking the wife for granted.
If the wife has already lost the husband to football or fishing or alcohol, again, I readily concede Lilac’s points.
Let me instead focus on a different case: a child-free marriage (by mutual agreement), where the husband has a thriving and well-paying career, but the wife works part-time despite herself having a good education, and housework is shared equally. The husband travels often for work, sometimes taking his wife; but when they travel together, she feels like arm-candy, worn with pride by the husband and paraded in front of his work-mates. The wife feels inferior and of stunted potential. She has no hobbies and essentially no friends. She returned to college – at her husband’s prodding – and eventually graduated with excellent grades, but became disillusioned. She never really cared for that field anyway; it was her husband’s idea, his scheme for keeping her occupied. Instead, she persisted at her menial part-time job. Her parents are far away, and no longer understand her – as she no longer understands them. She feels adrift, gasping. Her mother can’t see the problem either; a good, reliable man. An established house. Safe and settled. What’s the matter? The husband completely misses his wife’s frustrations, thinking that his wife still loves him – and indeed she does, at least romantically. He thinks that her finding a job is only around the corner – and then, and then, they’ll reach that elusive goal of marital equality. But somehow she can’t step over that threshold. She dawdles. The marriage has lasted for quite some years. The husband is now a senior executive. The wife is still a part-time clerk. They’re both sliding into middle-age, but the wife feels unfulfilled, and regards herself as a child in an adult’s body. She scrambles for something drastic – a shock to the system. Still professing love for her husband, she leaves him – initially just temporarily, to see if she can feel more independent living alone. Time passes. Remonstrations are exchanged – mostly by the husband, as the wife just silently and sullenly nods. And then the divorce. They leave the courthouse together. He turns to her, asking: “maybe this was all some stupid nightmare? Maybe we should just forgive one another, reconcile, embrace?” And the reply: “I can’t honey; I can’t. What I’ve unleashed, what I steadfastly now must undertake, I walk alone. Goodbye”
What do we make of this?
Is that what you lived through? I noticed you didn't answer my question about whether you've ever been married.
Regardless, it appears that marriage stunted the wife's potential. It seems that because marriage offered a safety net, she rested on her laurels. But he enabled her. In the end, it was probably best for her to divorce. Some people need to be pushed off a cliff to get their act together. She just chose to jump without being pushed.
My ex dragged his butt through undergrad, working part-time and taking elective after elective while deciding what he wanted to be when he grew up. The divorce was his wake-up call. Since then, he has not only finished his undergrad, but a Masters, works as a teacher, and is going for a PhD in biomedicine. (Then again, it seems he keeps changing programs so maybe he's falling somewhat into his old pattern. At least this time he has full-time work, though.) He rested on his laurels, I enabled, and ultimately our divorce was good for him, his career, and his growth. In our case, he didn't jump off the cliff. I pushed him. And he'll be the first to tell anyone who asks that he had no business asking anyone to marry him at that point in his life, and that divorce was the right thing for both of us.
The bottom line is that marriage should be beneficial for both partners. If it's not, and they can't make it that way, the one it is not benefiting owes it to himself or herself to leave. Life is short.
What if one wants to separate and the other doesn't?
Then the marriage is over. You can't force someone to love you or want to be with you. The rest of your post is just repeating your own incorrect assumptions and presumptions.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Did you have kids?
Nope!
Mod cut: Orphaned.
not every divorce is filled with bitterness and acrimony. Ours was quite amicable. We were friends long before the marriage, and we were friends after it was over, until he met his now-wife and I met my now-partner and drifted apart.
But hey, if it's self-serving to get out of situation that made me miserable, then I'll gladly say I had a self-serving agenda. Sorry, kid, but no one deserves a lifetime of misery because they made the mistake of marrying the wrong person.
Why do you assume he was a lazy drunk when she married him? My ex wasn't a Lost Boy when I married him.
I don't know that. I know what she called him.
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The deal was he'd finish his undergrad, and go on to grad school, most likely in another state as we were both tired of where we lived. He also swore up and down that he didn't want kids. Oh, and he used to know how to keep tidy. Funny how once we were married, he kept changing his mind on his education. Somehow he forgot how to keep a place clean, too. Odd, because you can't get through a gig in the Army without knowing how to make a bed or clean a bathroom. And look! He wants kids!
I had lots of plans, too, for how life would go after marriage. Problem is, life interfered. You know, stuff like that happens. Whatever happened to "for better or for worse?"
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Oh, and if a man threatens to kidnap a child, even if the child is his, that is a prosecutable offense in the U.S. and calling the police was the right thing for MightyQueen to do.
Women threaten to do it all the time - AND they do it all the time. I don't see sympathy for that coming from you.
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only get involved (and ask yourself if you are) a individual who has the best interest for everyone involved and don't "settle" or ignore real issues because its the easiest option to take when getting to know someone the way you should be to consider a serious relationship with them. taking out all the blame on the other person in a conflict situation and not taking any of your own personal accountability into consideration is probably one of the reasons that would lead you to bitter split in the first place.
every serious relationship i have been in has ended amicably. although there may have been bitter feelings everyone knew the reasons as to why it ended and accepted their parts in it, learned from it and moved on.
i have a very hard time believing all these people that get "screwed over" do so out of thin air. you're not doing any favors to anyone by staying in a situation that will just become more and more toxic until one person finally snaps or does as they please regardless of your feelings
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